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B.Safe
Full Member
Joined: 18 Apr 2018
Posts: 145
Location: Paris, France
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 Posted: Mon Nov 26, 2018 9:46 am Post subject: Re: Registration memory vs sb-entries and autoselect |
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| siebenhirter wrote: |
That is no shame, maybe I can help - simply ask what are your problems. But to seriously describe technical issues correctly, use your manual beforehand in the future, so that it is recognizeable what the information you need.
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Once again you are wrong, I have no problems with my instrument and it perfectly matches my many needs. And once again you suppose that I dont use my manual. I read it up and down and across before I changed my PA800 for the PA1000, perfectly knowing what I was looking for.
| siebenhirter wrote: |
Otherwise, with reasonable arguments you could refute if functions of the instruments are not properly described here, rather than placing rude nonsense statements, that have nothing to do with the topic of the thread. |
Here again you do not understand :
I never said your description of the manual is incorrect and it probably helps a lot people that don't take the time to read it.
What I do not agree with is when you claim to know better than Korg how to meet the needs of a musician, knowing that you do not even have their instrument. |
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siebenhirter
Platinum Member
Joined: 13 Oct 2011
Posts: 1843
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| Posted: Mon Nov 26, 2018 12:24 pm Post subject: Re: Registration memory vs sb-entries and autoselect |
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| B.Safe wrote: | | .. I do not agree with is when you claim to know better than Korg how to meet the needs of a musician, knowing that you do not even have their instrument .. |
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Again nothing from you on the current topic - only personal sensitivities.
OK - you are a "owner", but I don't have to "own" every single Pa model to discuss exactly its properties here, because the lock-style parameter is not only missing from the Pa1000 you own. Nor do I have to hide behind the term ' needs of musicians ' qualified by Korg, in order to place my personal demands on a current instrument and what characteristics I expect in terms of product development.
If you do not need and are satisfied with the fact that, on the one hand, that coupling of the "StyleChange" is missing for the KbdSets and, on the other hand, the parameters "LockStyle" for setlist is not realized, then that is your business. For me, compared to the convenience of the previous models, one of these two features is missing for the reasons described in detail before.
When choosing a SongBook Entry it should be possible to suppress optionally, that Styles automatically are selected - via LockStyle. With the current OS unfortunately even the lock of StyleElement has no effect on the Styles automatically selected, when choosing a SongBook Entry. So next Style and that Style Element memorized in the SongBook Entry is always selected - this rigid coupling sometimes is not necessary and should be solvable - via LockStyle.
StyleChange as a HW-button is not feasible afterwards for Pa4x/1000/700 - but a lock parameter "StyleChange" for the SetList (Sb) can be taken into account in an OS update, in order to restore a comfort that already was present in previous models.
*
_________________
kind regards
- siebenhirter, austria -
Interesting facts about styles and stylePlayer functions can be found at http: www.elmarherz.de |
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B.Safe
Full Member
Joined: 18 Apr 2018
Posts: 145
Location: Paris, France
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| Posted: Mon Nov 26, 2018 1:17 pm Post subject: |
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Siebenhirter,
you don't need to explain it again, I perfectly understand what you are asking for.
I simply do not agree with it and I consider that the decision made by Korg on PA1000, PA700 and PA4X to remove this option is an improvement.
How can I explain it simply...
Sounds, Styles and Songs are intuitive notions every musician can understand.
Using multiple songs in a songbook for one same song, just to emulate Yamaha's registrations is not intuitive.
Once you have selected a Song in the songbook, if 4 keyboard sets are not enough, you can access all your keyboard sets directly on the panel. You are not limited at 9 of them and you do not need a weird notion of "LockStyle". This is far easier to use than remembering "registrations" either on stage, in the (home)studio, within a party with friends or for playing or composing alone.
And yes, I agree, I was not replying to the initial post but to your answer. |
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siebenhirter
Platinum Member
Joined: 13 Oct 2011
Posts: 1843
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| Posted: Mon Nov 26, 2018 3:45 pm Post subject: |
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| B.Safe wrote: | .. just to emulate Yamaha's registrations is not intuitive
... if 4 keyboard sets are not enough, you can access all your keyboard sets directly on the panel. You are not limited at 9 ... |
It's not about mimicking the registrations of the Yammis and just about not using multiple songs from a pre-programmed songbook.
Pa-keyboards - with the exception of the latest series - in addition to the Songbook functions have been able to register several times through Autoselect Prf and alternate the styles optionally (without sideview to others).
It is also not a competition between different features of the Pa keyboards, because these always were available in parallel and with each other.
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Styleplay of the songbook and SetList function allows you to access the four KbdSets directly - that is correct. But direct access to the library's KbdSets is blocked by SetList buttons in Tile-View. That is the limitation - to only four KbdSets in SetList mode - and Styles bound as pre-programmed in sb-entry.
Of course, you can now help yourself with double handles (switch-off SetList and than ..... etc), but these is very uncomfortable especially in time-critical situations (OMBs often prefer to use Foot-Controllers for switchings).
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If using Styleplay of songbook without SetList function you could access the four KbdSets and also nine (if Pa1000-user) KbdSets - nothing more in DirectAccess and always the same last nine KbdSets, if using Autoselect KbdSets. All your KbdSets you can not access directly without Autoselect, but once again with double or more handles (first select KbdSet-Group, next select pages, next ... etc) - so just very uncomfortable.
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If you would have a parameter Lock-Style, optionally you could play as many four-part KbdSets as you have styles in your setList. Also does not matter what styles you assigned to sb-entry - and all these with Direct Access, comfortable switching with your 1-2-3-4-KbdSet buttons and your Set-List/TileView.
It is really not to emulate Memory-Registrations, but to use simple Direct Access functions for a varied play with the instrument - without limitations and already was solved better with previous instruments.
*
_________________
kind regards
- siebenhirter, austria -
Interesting facts about styles and stylePlayer functions can be found at http: www.elmarherz.de |
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B.Safe
Full Member
Joined: 18 Apr 2018
Posts: 145
Location: Paris, France
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| Posted: Mon Nov 26, 2018 4:03 pm Post subject: |
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| siebenhirter wrote: | ... direct access to the library's KbdSets is blocked by SetList buttons in Tile-View. That is the limitation - to only four KbdSets in SetList mode - and Styles bound as pre-programmed in sb-entry...
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Set lists and Tile-View didn't even exist in Korg PA instruments prior to PA1000/PA4X/PA700 so how can you tell that there is now a limitation in it ?
Just ignore Set lists and/or Tile-View if this disturbs you. |
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siebenhirter
Platinum Member
Joined: 13 Oct 2011
Posts: 1843
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| Posted: Mon Nov 26, 2018 7:05 pm Post subject: Registration memory vs sb-entries and autoselect |
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| B.Safe wrote: | | Set lists and Tile-View didn't even exist in Korg PA instruments prior to PA1000/PA4X/PA700 so how can you tell that there is now a limitation in it ? Just ignore Set lists and/or Tile-View if this disturbs you. |
The function of the set list has been around for a long time - only it was previously called Custom List (also in your Pa800), had no Previous button and no direct access to the performance/KbdSet buttons. These were the most significant changes in the songbook in addition of renaming from Custom- to Set-List.
The set list function - formerly custom list - does not disturb, but allows customized lists for ones music preferences. With that, the songbook makes any sense at all for me, because otherwise I could work with simple number input. The only thing that bothers, is the lack of possibility optional to prevent the automatic loading of the style when changing the Sb entry with a parameter (I call him "LockStyle"). It would be so important because with the last series of models an equivalent function is no longer possible with the KbdSets (formerly Performances), because also the button "StyleChange" has been omitted.
This has already been argued about months ago (Pa1000 - Setlist with / without StyleChange), to prevent repeating arguments again:
| B.Safe wrote: | | ... there are far more than 2 ways of working with the PA series .. I am also using the KB sets for playing intuitively .. I'm not against your proposal of a LOCK-STYLE parameter, provided that this does not add confusion to this already very complex ... |
| siebenhirter wrote: | However, regardless of the mode one always is limited if the intended change of parameters in a time-critical situation can not be performed with a single-touch DirectAccess-button. In this respect, the predecessor models (Pa3x/800/500) with 16, 2x10 and 2x8 buttons were better suited for convenient DirectAccess than with the 9 buttons of the Pa1000.
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The setlist - that can be extended around all existing sb-entries - additionally now could offer the option of using all the advantages of the entries of Songbook, even without coupling the background tracks, by directly accessing the buttons of the KbdSet library for setlist-seletion via a LOCK-STYLE parameter (to be implemented).
This does not add confusion to the instrument, because one need not touch this parameter in case he does not want to play intuitively as could be done without songbook.
You can IGNORE A PARAMETER IF YOU DO NOT NEED IT without confusion - but YOU CAN NOT USE IT IF IT IS MISSING and you would need it!
So it would be a shame not to implement this parameter and thus lose the advanced capabilities that would allow WORKING CREATIVE AND INTUITIVE EVEN WITH THE SONGBOOK. |
Setlist with a "LockStyle" would allow you to use all pre-programmed KbdSets with single-touch-DirectAccess buttons to be used for any style and without being tied to that style of the setlist, which is registered in the sb-entry. If required the recent used style always maybe changed via the Style-Panel or Autoselect Style.
So I ask for support for my suggestion of a Lock-Style for Setlist! Thank you.
_________________
kind regards
- siebenhirter, austria -
Interesting facts about styles and stylePlayer functions can be found at http: www.elmarherz.de |
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B.Safe
Full Member
Joined: 18 Apr 2018
Posts: 145
Location: Paris, France
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| Posted: Mon Nov 26, 2018 7:51 pm Post subject: |
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Set lists differ from custom lists precisely with the 9 buttons that you are argumenting on, and these are new in PA1000/PA4X/PA700.
I know that this discussion is not new and as you are taking the opportunity of each related post to ask for this change, I give the position of someone who disagrees so don't be so surprised.
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