Korg Forums

[GrandMasterKorg]

Abstract:

I have a warning for everybody who is thinking about to buy a Kronos.

I found out that the Korg Kronos has a very bad organizational structure in terms of how the combinations and the programs refer to each other.

This bad organizational structure is prone to faults and will easily mess up your Kronos.



Background:

A Combination is very stupid, because the combination absolutely don’t know, which exact programs it contains. The combination only know a bank and program number. That’s all. No matter what is particular sound is stored at this position. Is there a pad sound, or a lead sound, it doesn’t matter, the combination only knows e.g. Bank I-AA program 128.

Since you can load new programs to the exact same bank and program place, the combination will sound different,

Yamaha Montage is going a completely different way.

No banks and programs (Yamaha calls them Voices) are existing anymore, there is no „two different mode“ architecture anymore, like before, in Motif, where you had a „Performance mode“ and „Voice mode“, similar to the „Combination mode“ and „Program mode“ in the outdated Kronos.

Yamaha learned, that such an old fashioned architecture is prone to faults and will heavily confuse the users and paying customers. And they are absolutely right!!



In the Montage, the performances are now organized only in categories and the synthesizer is always in the „Performance mode“ („Combination mode“ in Kronos)

Now comes the huge advantage and the game changer: each performance consists of 16 parts and they are always directly stored inside the dedicated performance.

So there is absolutely no way, that a performance can lose their parts,... like it happens in the Kronos

For me it is time to sell the Kronos, because of the old fashioned architecture of programs and performances and how thy badly refer to each other, I don’t like the organizational structure.

Outlook:


I hope Korg is learning from Yamaha and will change this in the news big Synthesizer that they develop, if they do...?

Because in the age of windows software synthesizer, the hardware machines play a smaller and smaller role. The whole business of hardware synthesizer went down so dramatically, that the suppliers don’t invest so much money anymore in the development like in the earlier years.

So the question is, if we can really expect a new flagship of workstation like Kronos anymore, with a better organizational Architecture.

The windows operating system offers already a perfect basic structure for files and software synthesizer make use of it.

Now I will sell my Kronos and buy a Montage and then we will see.

[Liviou2004]

Personnaly, I've never had any problem of coherence between Combi and Prog.
First : category and name are displayed and, above all, saving accurately your work in a PCG file allow you to keep the link betwwen Combi and Prog consistent.

[Sam CA]

If Korg's Combi file system approach is killing your creative workflow, then Yamaha it is!

Your hardware vs. software argument doesn't sound very convincing. You gotta secure a NAMM pass to see some hardware!
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Sam

[number6uk]

I for one like the Korg workstation structure as it is. All Korg workstations going back to the M1 have been like this and has worked very well for years. None of them are perfect, but easy to work with once you know what you are dealing with.
I don't want my Korg to turn into a Yamaha!
So like you are doing if you prefer the Yamaha method you buy a Yamaha, if you like the Korg method then buy a Korg... easy. Or if you have the bank balance for it, just get both.

The Montage is a great piece of kit, and so is the Kronos, but they are very different beasts. I use the Kronos because I use the full sequencer on it, there isn't another "workstation" out there at the moment that compares even though it's main design is now over 7 years old, the other manufacturers are just not making them. I know there is the DAW route, but if you want an all in one box solution, the Kronos is still the master.

I came back to synths after a lengthy time away, I was looking for a replacement workstation for my Trinity and was open to any manufacturer that had the goods. After looking around and testing pretty much most manufacturers top of the range offerings the only one that hit the spot and still continues to do so is the Kronos. Lucky for me as I was already familiar with the architecture because or the Trinity, but I would of learnt a new way if one of the other manufacturers had something better to offer.

Can't wait to see what is to come, from any of the manufacturers... but for now the Kronos is the machine for me.
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Neil

Korg Kronos 2 88, Prologue 16, Minilogue PG, Trinity Plus/SCSI/PBS, Moog Mother 32, DFAM and Subsequent 37 owner.

[Gunnar]

While do occasionally wish that the Kronos was organized more like a traditional file system so patches could be loaded and unloaded independently and banks weren't limited to 128 slots and HD-1 vs EXi banks weren't different things, I do not find this to be much of an issue in practice.
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Gear: Korg Kronos 2 73, Arturia Microbrute & MiniBrute 2, Moog Mother-32, Ibanez RG320DXFM Guitar, ESP Viper 254FM Bass, Blackstar HT-1
Software: Reaper, EZ Drummer
Soundcloud: https://soundcloud.com/gunnarsletta

[Derek Cook]

Just about every workstation on the market ever has worked like this. Montage is a bit different in that respect, but there are pros and cons with either approach.

E.g.if I have a CX-3 Organ program that I use in ten combis, I only need to tweak the one program for the Combis to pick up the changes.

With Montage you are going to have edit ten Performances.

Pros and cons, and which one is best is probably a personal choice. I would not be so critical of the Kronos.
_________________
Derek Cook - Java Developer



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[Pedja]

GrandMasterKorg all is not in a structure, much more is in programs and combies quality. Combies made for Kronos are far away from performances made for Montage, second one are not too much inspirative for me! Kronos is far away from Montage. You have to try it (Montage).
_________________
Pedja
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http://moca.virtual.museum/autogallery2017/autogallery_kalajdzijevic/
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http://moca.virtual.museum/autogallery2019/autogallery_kalajdzijevic/
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[voip]

No issues with the Programs and Combis approach here, either. Just a suggestion. Following the Kronos upgrade installation, a different preload file is required, then all will be good. The details are in the upgrade pack installation guide.

.

[number6uk]

GrandMasterKorg, when you get the Montage don't forget to change your forum name
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Neil

Korg Kronos 2 88, Prologue 16, Minilogue PG, Trinity Plus/SCSI/PBS, Moog Mother 32, DFAM and Subsequent 37 owner.

[Galf2]

I'm fully satisfied with the file structure in the Korg Kronos. But I really don't like the small number of banks for programs PCG. This is of course overdramatic. And the rest Korg Kronos the best synthesizer. Not only piano-roll and 64-bit VST plug-in for DAW.

[Liviou2004]

[AntonySharmman]

[Galf2]

Antony Sharmman all right says about this. Five free banks in Korg Kronos 2 are very, very few. That's why I say it's overdramatic

[Liviou2004]

Nonone is constrained to use all factory sounds at once !!

All banks are available to built your own banks. You have the choice to build your own banks map, according to the exs and drums kits you need.

So, there are really 2688 free memories, depending on your needs !

On another hand, if you say that you get only 5 free banks, that meens that your are using all the sounds of all the 16 other banks, so 2048 sounds on the same time ?

Its up to you, but the only thing you have to do is take the time to organize your banks, according to your song and the needed sounds for this song.

[Galf2]

If you remove the factory programs and if you download from the Internet a combi that uses factory programs, then this combi will not work. This is not the best option.