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Very bad overall organizational structure of Korg Kronos
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theshinenz
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Joined: 18 Sep 2009
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 11, 2018 7:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

burningbusch wrote:
I hope people realize, the Montage has only 640 (equivalent of 5 banks X 128) user Performance locations, period. You can't increase this by deleting "factory banks" as you can with the Kronos. In addition, if you tweak a factory sound, it will be saved in one of the 640 user locations. You can't overwrite the "factory" ROM performances. Of course on the Kronos, you can tweak a "factory" program and save it back to the original location.

Busch.


I think this is incorrect, I used to own a montage and from memory a "library" can have up to 640 performances, and I'm pretty sure you can have up to around 7 libraries loaded at once.

To be honest I did find it a bit more flexible in that aspect, but went back to the Kronos because its less limited sound wise.


Scott
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Galf2
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 11, 2018 7:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

burningbusch wrote:
I hope people realize, the Montage has only 640 (equivalent of 5 banks X 128) user Performance locations...

Busch.


At Montage have only 640 User Performance Locations? This is fiasco Shocked
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Sam CA
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 11, 2018 8:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

GregC wrote:


Indeed.

I am a Junior Master at PacMan

I figure nobody cares so boring forum name it is
Very Happy



Now that GrandMaster is gone...


Dear Greg,

We, the Korg Forums, proclaim you to have earned the honorary Grand Master degree in Korg studies. Just remember, with great power comes great responsibility. (Said Spiderman's uncle Ben)
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GregC
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 11, 2018 8:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sam CA wrote:
GregC wrote:


Indeed.

I am a Junior Master at PacMan

I figure nobody cares so boring forum name it is
Very Happy



Now that GrandMaster is gone...

Dear Greg,

We, the Korg Forums, proclaim you to have earned the honorary Grand Master degree in Korg studies. Just remember, with great power comes great responsibility. (Said Spiderman's uncle Ben)


LOL. Gee, thanks , Sam.

Based on post count, maybe. But half or more of my posts are nothing special- just a bunch of blah-blah time killing posting.

I will bribe mr Grandmaster of something to come back- I have a gently used 6 yr old Nanopad in my garage.

With power there is more hubris, Very Happy
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burningbusch
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 11, 2018 8:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

theshinenz wrote:
burningbusch wrote:
I hope people realize, the Montage has only 640 (equivalent of 5 banks X 128) user Performance locations, period. You can't increase this by deleting "factory banks" as you can with the Kronos. In addition, if you tweak a factory sound, it will be saved in one of the 640 user locations. You can't overwrite the "factory" ROM performances. Of course on the Kronos, you can tweak a "factory" program and save it back to the original location.

Busch.


I think this is incorrect, I used to own a montage and from memory a "library" can have up to 640 performances, and I'm pretty sure you can have up to around 7 libraries loaded at once.

To be honest I did find it a bit more flexible in that aspect, but went back to the Kronos because its less limited sound wise.


Scott


You are correct, but the library locations are considered READ ONLY MEMORY. You install Performances (and other things like waveforms) in those locations and once there, you can't edit them. Also, while each can have UP to 640, if the first library has 20 Performances (something like the Bosendorfer), the remaining 620 locations aren't then added to the other libraries, they are simply empty and will remain so. At least that's my understanding.

I maybe wasn't clear as I was referring to typical user program locations which are fully editable.


Busch.
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Last edited by burningbusch on Tue Dec 11, 2018 9:21 pm; edited 3 times in total
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Sam CA
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 11, 2018 8:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

GregC wrote:


LOL. Gee, thanks , Sam.

Based on post count, maybe. But half or more of my posts are nothing special- just a bunch of blah-blah time killing posting.

I will bribe mr Grandmaster of something to come back- I have a gently used 6 yr old Nanopad in my garage.

With power there is more hubris, Very Happy


ROFL
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GrandMasterKorg
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 11, 2018 9:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Oh boy I figured it out. Now everything is working fine again.

When I was loading the factory preload, there was a question about if you would like to use the KronosX or the new Kronos2 style of loading the programs to different locations.

I was always choosing the new Kronos2 style of loading, because I thought I have the new OS 3.2.1 and then my kronos x is behaving like a Kronos2.

I thought by myself, lets try the other option and gosh! it worked!

Now I stay with the Kronos, since I like the Combinations very much. I am a big fan of the Karma, it's a little bit like an "Auto Accompaniment" function.

I dont have the money for a Montage, because my wife don't allow me to buy, since we have a small baby at home and purchased the new house and the expensive car...

You got it?
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GregC
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 11, 2018 10:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

GrandMasterKorg wrote:
Oh boy I figured it out. Now everything is working fine again.

When I was loading the factory preload, there was a question about if you would like to use the KronosX or the new Kronos2 style of loading the programs to different locations.

I was always choosing the new Kronos2 style of loading, because I thought I have the new OS 3.2.1 and then my kronos x is behaving like a Kronos2.

I thought by myself, lets try the other option and gosh! it worked!

Now I stay with the Kronos, since I like the Combinations very much. I am a big fan of the Karma, it's a little bit like an "Auto Accompaniment" function.

I dont have the money for a Montage, because my wife don't allow me to buy, since we have a small baby at home and purchased the new house and the expensive car...

You got it?


Thats great, I had confidence in you.

Many of us have Karma love.

I hear babies are expensive. I don't know exactly, as I only have 2 cats.

Anyway, maybe wheel and deal with the wife, promise a fancy vacation or week end getaway, then bring up Montage. An 2nd board is needed for back up, emergencies, etc
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Sam CA
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 12, 2018 2:20 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Return of the Grandmaster unfolding before our eyes. Just joking man! Hopefully things work out for you. Since this is the most official un-official korg forum with tons of helpful users, you might as well bring up similar issues as a question rather than a goodbye statement. It's a real weird way of talking about a problem, especially when you haven't really "mastered" the beast just yet. Neither have I!
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karmathanever
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 12, 2018 2:58 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

GrandMasterKorg wrote:
I hope Korg is learning from Yamaha and will change this in the news big Synthesizer that they develop, if they do...?

Woah!!!
If Korg actually feel they need to "learn" from Yamaha then I'm selling up and going 100% Casio.

Enjoy your Montage and hopefully no epileptic seizures from the flashing SuperKnob Wink

Pete Very Happy
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19naia
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 12, 2018 4:09 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Makes perfect sense now. A small baby at home and a wife?
Does not get more complicated than that, and taxing on the nerves.

Then add trying to figure out kronos... With the baby in the background..

After a while i would be getting rid of kronos too, just to save my last nerve to keep up with the baby and issues that can come up there.
I would even stoop as low as getting a basic department store casio, because montage can have its own challenges that can work on that last nerve needed for raising a small baby to the point of baby being big enough to walk over to the Kronos or Montage with caked up hands and start doing like daddy does to make the screen beep and the keys twinkle out those sounds.
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theshinenz
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 12, 2018 6:14 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Busch, essentially you could fill 640 performances on the montage with your own sounds you've created, then save them as a library. Load the library and start again with the next 640 performances, I found this feature actually pretty good on the Montage, obviously yes they a read only when loaded as a library but doesn;t stop you editing the hell out of a huge performance bank before saving as a library.

Scott
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jimknopf
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 13, 2018 1:53 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I couldn't care less about the Montage system, and prefer the way the Kronos OS handles things by far over that: MUCH more flexible and powerful from my view! And with tools like PCG Tools, I fail to see how it could be easy to mess things up on the Kronos.

By the way, I for one don't care about factory programs and relating combis any more, since I noticed a long time ago, that I virtually do or redo combis, which I want to use, from scratch most of the time anyways. On my Kronos, I since have my own patch structure excusively (no factory order at all), and my combis based on that own structure.

The downside of this approach obviously is, that you can't just load third party combis relating to one of the factory program orders: you have to rebuild them with your own programs.
The upside (which for me is ten times more important than the downside) is a massive gain of available program and combi slots for sounds I actually use, not ever stumbling over masses of low quality presets based on low quality samples from ancient Korg times any more. Now ALL banks are my banks, and all contain sounds I actually use, or at least could well imagine to be useful some day.

Still, I could load the old factory banks to check some combi references, whenever needed: the cool side of the Kronos SSD system (in contrast to the Montage) is to have it all in immediate and fast SSD reach at your fingertips, within the massive and fast file system of your synth.
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KK
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 13, 2018 3:15 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

jimknopf wrote:
And with tools like PCG Tools, I fail to see how it could be easy to mess things up on the Kronos.

Still, I could load the old factory banks to check some combi references, whenever needed: the cool side of the Kronos SSD system (in contrast to the Montage) is to have it all in immediate and fast SSD reach at your fingertips, within the massive and fast file system of your synth.

I totally agree with you. Cool I would add that using the three main Korg freeware significantly simplify file management. I also connect my K2 to my PC via FTP and this also reduces time for transfers and backups, etc.

Just like you, it's been a while since I've completely redone the order of progs/combis/etc. It makes more sense to me to combine all instrument types together (instead of looking for pianos in ten different places, for example), etc. Using the tools, all links stay just fine between them and combis, drums, etc.

When installing third party libraries which use "factory" stuff, I simply re-link the stuff, if ever needed (since I mostly prefer my own custom versions/variations of instruments). I update an Excel sheet which compares the factory stuff and my current version of things, so it is easy to "connect the dots".

It is beyond me why some people complain about not having enough programs/combis or recommend to keep everything in factory state. I recommend to everyone to learn how the Kronos works and practice with its file management, to avoid imposing yourself unnecessary limits.
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Galf2
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 13, 2018 4:25 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

KK wrote:
jimknopf wrote:
And with tools like PCG Tools, I fail to see how it could be easy to mess things up on the Kronos.

Still, I could load the old factory banks to check some combi references, whenever needed: the cool side of the Kronos SSD system (in contrast to the Montage) is to have it all in immediate and fast SSD reach at your fingertips, within the massive and fast file system of your synth.

I totally agree with you. Cool I would add that using the three main Korg freeware significantly simplify file management. I also connect my K2 to my PC via FTP and this also reduces time for transfers and backups, etc.

Just like you, it's been a while since I've completely redone the order of progs/combis/etc. It makes more sense to me to combine all instrument types together (instead of looking for pianos in ten different places, for example), etc. Using the tools, all links stay just fine between them and combis, drums, etc.

When installing third party libraries which use "factory" stuff, I simply re-link the stuff, if ever needed (since I mostly prefer my own custom versions/variations of instruments). I update an Excel sheet which compares the factory stuff and my current version of things, so it is easy to "connect the dots".

It is beyond me why some people complain about not having enough programs/combis or recommend to keep everything in factory state. I recommend to everyone to learn how the Kronos works and practice with its file management, to avoid imposing yourself unnecessary limits.


You can certainly do as you write. But this is not a one-button, not "on the fly", and not real-time, you don't take into account this aspect. And as a really matter of fact, this is what is called a "Headache". And if for example, a Kronos had thirty-two free Users Bank, then librarys management would be so easy just as one, two, three, with out problem.
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