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decreebass
Joined: 14 Dec 2018
Posts: 35
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 Posted: Mon Dec 17, 2018 5:08 am Post subject: Re: 88 vs. 73 vs. 61: Your postmortem? |
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| psionic311 wrote: | I think if you got the 88 key, you'd probably leave it at home. You did say your main is guitar, and only have keys as a side dish, right?
I'd bet if you got the 88-key or even the 73-key, you'd trying gigging it once or twice, but then discover how big and cumbersome it gets. You're not going to put that big beast on a cheap X-stand, right? |
You're right; for now, that I would likely not gig with it. HOWEVER, if I stay healthy, I still have a few decades left of gigging left in me (I'm 35 now) so I can't say that I'll always be a guitarist who plays keys on the side; I wouldn't mind joining a band as a full time keys player (or at least a band with more heavy keys) in the future. Even now, I could leave a couple guitars at home - that would mean fewer trips and make it more likely that I'd be willing to take the 88 with me.
Regardless, for now, I still have my Kross 2 61 - which for the most part serves me well. The Kronos 88 wouldn't be wasted. As I've stated, it's more just a treat for myself with the benefit that I can gig with it if I want (or if there's room in the venue, room in my car, etc.
But nah; I have a nice double-braced stand for it. Though, I will probably buy a cheaper, lighter-weight stand for the Kross, since it's only about 8 lbs  |
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Derek Cook
Approved Merchant
Joined: 20 Jul 2014
Posts: 1279
Location: Wales, UK
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| Posted: Mon Dec 17, 2018 7:51 am Post subject: Re: 88 vs. 73 vs. 61: Your postmortem? |
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| psionic311 wrote: | | .... I still have a few decades left of gigging left in me (I'm 35 now) .... |
When you're 54 (as I am), you'll hopefully be saying the same!  
The way I see it, lugging gear is good cardio...
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Last edited by Derek Cook on Mon Dec 17, 2018 10:49 am; edited 1 time in total |
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voip
Platinum Member
Joined: 27 Nov 2014
Posts: 3769
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| Posted: Mon Dec 17, 2018 8:51 am Post subject: |
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Apart from weight and suitability for small stages, one of the advantages of the 61-key is that the vector joystick and main joystick are close enough to each other to be operated with one hand, allowing for some awesome synth control.
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drama1
Platinum Member
Joined: 04 Apr 2007
Posts: 662
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| Posted: Mon Dec 17, 2018 5:02 pm Post subject: |
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| Wish to hell Korg would make a 73/76 semi-weighted. That would solve soooo many issues I have currently using a 61. |
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karmathanever
Platinum Member
Joined: 12 Jan 2004
Posts: 10398
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| Posted: Tue Dec 18, 2018 12:48 am Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | Wish to hell Korg would make a 73/76 semi-weighted. That would solve soooo many issues I have currently using a 61. |
+100
PLEASE!!!!! ...... but WITH aftertouch (unlike the LS88!!!!!)
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GregC
Platinum Member
Joined: 15 May 2002
Posts: 9451
Location: Discovery Bay (San Francisco Bay Area)
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| Posted: Tue Dec 18, 2018 1:17 am Post subject: |
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| karmathanever wrote: | | Quote: | | Wish to hell Korg would make a 73/76 semi-weighted. That would solve soooo many issues I have currently using a 61. |
+100
PLEASE!!!!! ...... but WITH aftertouch (unlike the LS88!!!!!) |
We can dream. I can't imagine playing synth parts without AT. Once you get used to having it its an integral part.
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psionic311
Platinum Member
Joined: 14 Nov 2014
Posts: 1046
Location: Orlando, Florida USA
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| Posted: Wed Dec 19, 2018 4:42 am Post subject: Re: 88 vs. 73 vs. 61: Your postmortem? |
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| decreebass wrote: | | psionic311 wrote: | I think if you got the 88 key, you'd probably leave it at home. You did say your main is guitar, and only have keys as a side dish, right?
I'd bet if you got the 88-key or even the 73-key, you'd trying gigging it once or twice, but then discover how big and cumbersome it gets. You're not going to put that big beast on a cheap X-stand, right? |
You're right; for now, that I would likely not gig with it. HOWEVER, if I stay healthy, I still have a few decades left of gigging left in me (I'm 35 now) so I can't say that I'll always be a guitarist who plays keys on the side; I wouldn't mind joining a band as a full time keys player (or at least a band with more heavy keys) in the future. Even now, I could leave a couple guitars at home - that would mean fewer trips and make it more likely that I'd be willing to take the 88 with me.
Regardless, for now, I still have my Kross 2 61 - which for the most part serves me well. The Kronos 88 wouldn't be wasted. As I've stated, it's more just a treat for myself with the benefit that I can gig with it if I want (or if there's room in the venue, room in my car, etc.
But nah; I have a nice double-braced stand for it. Though, I will probably buy a cheaper, lighter-weight stand for the Kross, since it's only about 8 lbs |
It's not really age or how fit you are that's the determining factor here, it's the hassle.
I guess what I'm advising is this -- don't get the 88 key if you're not a piano-banging madman, if gigging is at least 50% of what you want to do as a multi-instrumentalist. Instead, get a nice 88-key controller like the Privia PX-5S. You will find many users that rave about its action, portability, and sound (although on that last point I beg to differ). Don't get an el-cheapo 88-key, as they cost about as much as the PX-5S and still don't offer the 4-zone capability. You might very well end up gigging with only the K61 and the Kross, leaving the 88 key at home for piano work via the Kronos.
You can find a used K61 for around $2k and a PX-5S for around $750.
The K61 is much more portable than its heavier siblings (esp with a soft case), but unfortunately it overlaps functionally with your Kross. So you'll either have to choose one over the other or else use both and a possibly a 3rd 88 key. I don't know if the Kross has the ability to use split zones.
I'm a believer that a 2-tier is much more practical than a single tier solution, even if that single is an 88 or 73 key. The set up logistics for 2-tier aren't much more than 1 keyboard, but the flexibilty and productivity of 2 tiers are so much more.
If you're one of those rare birds that plays keys while also playing a guitar or bass, like I am, then I also strongly suggest you get foot pedals. The Kronos pads are a rather unique live benefit in that you can trigger them externally via MIDI like with a foot controller. This lets you play notes like a Taurus pedal, or chords, or trigger audio samples, what have you. Whatever you program the pads to do, you can trigger with your feet. It's like having a 3rd hand. Meaning you could play guitar like normal and just bring in pads or strings or trigger samples with your feet at the same time.
Food for thought. |
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ChrisDuncan
Senior Member
Joined: 17 May 2018
Posts: 389
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| Posted: Wed Dec 19, 2018 6:31 pm Post subject: |
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| KK wrote: | | decreebass wrote: | | Wow! Now THAT'S commitment! |
Luckily, I was helped by other guys in the band back then.  |
Yeah, I remember being those other guys. If you played in an Allman Brothers tribute band in Long Island back in the 80s, I think you still owe me a few beers.
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Chris Duncan
Atlanta, GA, USA, Earth |
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ChrisDuncan
Senior Member
Joined: 17 May 2018
Posts: 389
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| Posted: Wed Dec 19, 2018 6:42 pm Post subject: Re: 88 vs. 73 vs. 61: Your postmortem? |
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| decreebass wrote: |
If you got the 88-key, do you regret it? Is it too big to take to most gigs? How much does its size affect your willingness to gig with it or take it places? Do you even use outside the home/studio?
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I went with the 88 but it was for home / studio use from the very beginning. I'm a guitarist / singer and keyboard musings are purely for my own entertainment, not for gigs.
That said, if I was gigging with a keyboard (and the rooms I was playing could support the wingspan), it would be an 88. After enough years of schlepping Marshall 4x12s, amps and other such things, weighty gear doesn't bother me. Once I step on stage, I prefer to have no limitations.
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Studio: Cubase 13 | Windows 10 | Yamaha TF5 | Mackie MCU | CMC AI, QC
Keyboard Station: Kronos 2 88 | Fantom 7 | JV 2080 | Cubase 13 | Windows 10 | Focusrite 18i20 | CMC TP
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Chris Duncan
Atlanta, GA, USA, Earth |
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decreebass
Joined: 14 Dec 2018
Posts: 35
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| Posted: Wed Dec 19, 2018 7:27 pm Post subject: Re: 88 vs. 73 vs. 61: Your postmortem? |
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| ChrisDuncan wrote: | | decreebass wrote: |
If you got the 88-key, do you regret it? Is it too big to take to most gigs? How much does its size affect your willingness to gig with it or take it places? Do you even use outside the home/studio?
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I went with the 88 but it was for home / studio use from the very beginning. I'm a guitarist / singer and keyboard musings are purely for my own entertainment, not for gigs.
That said, if I was gigging with a keyboard (and the rooms I was playing could support the wingspan), it would be an 88. After enough years of schlepping Marshall 4x12s, amps and other such things, weighty gear doesn't bother me. Once I step on stage, I prefer to have no limitations. |
Some good points. When I was a professional bassist (before I enlisted in the Army), I would dread the load in; everything was heavy or cold (Midwest in winter, for instance)... but the whole band did it as a team and once we were all set up for the week or weekend, it was nice to have my bass stack and effects ready to go. My guitarist had two big tube amps in road cases and a pedalboard and we all helped with everything. My main concern is really transportation lol!
To be honest, I have a feeling I'm going to be buying both sizes; the 88 for home (ideally for the rest of my life - or at least the next decade or two) and the 61 to gig with. I mean, I can play expressive piano bits on a 61 synth action Kross right now, so I don't feel like it'll cripple any sort of performance (unless I have a purely piano-style gig; in which case, I probably could just bring the 8.
There are so many considerations - I think I'm gonna sell some guitar gear so I can afford both models and then I won't have to choose |
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dfahrner
Platinum Member
Joined: 21 Jun 2008
Posts: 571
Location: Bend, OR
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| Posted: Wed Dec 19, 2018 10:17 pm Post subject: Re: 88 vs. 73 vs. 61: Your postmortem? |
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| decreebass wrote: | | ...I can play expressive piano bits on a 61 synth action Kross right now, so I don't feel like it'll cripple any sort of performance... |
If you can play piano parts on a Kross, you won't have any trouble playing on a Kronos 61, which has a MUCH nicer keyboard, in fact it's just about the best un- or semi-weighted that I've ever played...at one point I was even thinking about shoe-horning an M3-73 keybed (identical to the K61's, just more keys) into a Kronos 61 - it connects to and works perfectly with the Kronos main board, but it wouldn't fit without major modifications...
df |
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KK
Platinum Member
Joined: 13 Oct 2016
Posts: 1422
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| Posted: Wed Dec 19, 2018 10:22 pm Post subject: |
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| ChrisDuncan wrote: | | KK wrote: | | decreebass wrote: | | Wow! Now THAT'S commitment! |
Luckily, I was helped by other guys in the band back then. |
Yeah, I remember being those other guys. If you played in an Allman Brothers tribute band in Long Island back in the 80s, I think you still owe me a few beers. |
I mainly did ELP, Genesis and Crimson tributes. Oh and I was helping the others too with their heavy stuff and amps. That was good cardio and gym exercise. |
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Zeroesque
Senior Member
Joined: 17 Jan 2011
Posts: 451
Location: SoCal
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| Posted: Thu Dec 20, 2018 7:07 pm Post subject: |
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Another K61 and Casio Privia (PX3) gigging player here. I recently got a K2-88 Gold, but I found that I don't really get along with the RH3 keybed, so I'm selling it. It's certainly not bad, but not $3k better than the Casio. I'd gladly deal with the weight if it were a sensational playing experience. I actually still dig the 90's Kurzweil (Fatar) keybeds.
I like the ability to have both weighted and unweighted keys on a gig for a decent organ and piano feel. Doing any kind of authentic organ techniques ("Fly Like an Eagle", etc.) on a piano keybed is really hard on your hands after a song or two. I'm also a heavy-handed and sloppy player, so trying to rock piano on an unweighted 'board results in a lot of extra notes being triggered. Can sound legit on many EP or organ parts, but is heinous on piano. I often play synth leads on weighted keys for that reason. Yes, I suck.
Looking forward to NAMM 2019 to try some of the newer 88-key controllers out there, including semi-weighted stuff. That said, I haven't tried a Kronos LS.
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Kronos 61, Kronos2-88, Hammond B3, Baldwin SD-10 |
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psionic311
Platinum Member
Joined: 14 Nov 2014
Posts: 1046
Location: Orlando, Florida USA
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| Posted: Thu Dec 20, 2018 7:47 pm Post subject: |
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| Zeroesque wrote: | Another K61 and Casio Privia (PX3) gigging player here.
I like the ability to have both weighted and unweighted keys on a gig for a decent organ and piano feel. Doing any kind of authentic organ techniques ("Fly Like an Eagle", etc.) on a piano keybed is really hard on your hands after a song or two. |
+1 on the 61/88 combo. More choice is better.
On a side note, we do Fly Like an Eagle as well. I've got a combi just for the space intro. I'm playing bass during the song itself, so just trigger some FX sounds and do some glissando's here and there for the synth parts. But I'd really like to nail the organ parts better. They're difficult to pick up by ear.. Do you have sheet music for the organ parts? |
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decreebass
Joined: 14 Dec 2018
Posts: 35
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| Posted: Thu Dec 20, 2018 7:50 pm Post subject: |
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I have a M-Audio Keystartion 88... But after playing the Kronos 88, the Keystation feels like a joke...
In any case, I'm probably gonna try to sell the Keystation and look into a more piano-like 88-key controller for when/if I buy the 61 to gig with |
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