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marc1
Full Member

Joined: 04 May 2015
Posts: 119

Posted: Sat Jan 19, 2019 5:41 pm Post subject:

billysynth1 wrote:

Quote:

The problem is this...the Japanese think they are Italians so they are offering an Italiano Piano with Red Tomato Sauce on it...why you all complain paizano...

Eh, ahtsa matta for you...

LOL!! Maybe there has been a silent takeover, which needn't be a necessarily bad thing. Italy has traditionally a very rich musical culture with the piano having been invented in Italy in the 17th century.

Maxfpt

Joined: 13 Dec 2014
Posts: 6

Posted: Sat Jan 19, 2019 6:27 pm Post subject:

marc1 wrote:

billysynth1 wrote:

Quote:

The problem is this...the Japanese think they are Italians so they are offering an Italiano Piano with Red Tomato Sauce on it...why you all complain paizano...

Eh, ahtsa matta for you...

And please do not forgot Michele Paciulli when remember important korg’s developer

LewTheKeyboardGuy
Junior Member

Joined: 25 Nov 2018
Posts: 82
Location: North Wales. UK

Posted: Sat Jan 19, 2019 7:11 pm Post subject:

GregC wrote:

LewTheKeyboardGuy wrote:

[q

Kronos is rather unique in a number of ways, yep the Montage is rather new and "out there" but for me the interface is awful, it just inspires anger and a pick axe lol.

OK, I know this is going to sound rather daft, but why don't we as a forum of Kronos owners, sit down together (a challenge in physical terms so let's not do that, unless it's the catholic church's idea of Musical Chairs) set up a poll, put together a petition to submit to Korg Japan and show that we mean business here. whether we're library developers, musicians, producers, engineers, composers, arrangers, etc, we're all part of the korg family as owners, so, why don't we take the direct route? Worth a try?

Its not a bad idea. But lets see what Korg offers at NAMM , first.

February 2019 marks the 2 yr anniversary of the last OS update.

By the end of Feb, we will have enough of a 'signal' whether or not the Korg president is developing Kronos further.

And maybe we can herd all or most of the cats by March 1. Very Happy

Well, we can only but see. So far before the NAMM show, Korg UK shows the new OS for the PA4X, the new Kronos "SE", Kross in different flavours, (bring back apple g3 imac) and the krom EX. good moves, don't get me wrong, but our worry is how the kronos is being looked upon. I have every faith in Jack Howtop and his work with his team, but yes, the last OS release for the Kronos was some time ago, only a minor firmware update, that's really it. I'll hold off a little while, though I do have a thread on the go for users to suggest fixes, improvements, etc to the Kronos os so that we get the best from our machines. It's a lot of money in a kronos 2 88 and LS88, etc and to feel that improvements haven't been seen is a bit worrying. like the Oasys.

voip
Platinum Member

Joined: 27 Nov 2014
Posts: 3773

Posted: Sat Jan 19, 2019 10:33 pm Post subject:

voip wrote:

The support site is being hammered with all the PA4X downloads going on. It is loading, just vvvv. slowly!!

The PA4X update isn't due for release until the end of February, so the site slowness is maybe due to an increase in site traffic in anticipation of NAMM 2019, or a significant revamp of the support website is ongoing.

GregC
Platinum Member

Joined: 15 May 2002
Posts: 9451
Location: Discovery Bay (San Francisco Bay Area)

Posted: Sun Jan 20, 2019 12:22 am Post subject:

LewTheKeyboardGuy wrote:

[g, but our worry is how the kronos is being looked upon. I have every faith in Jack Howtop and his work with his team, but yes, the last OS release for the Kronos was some time ago, only a minor firmware update, that's really it. I'll hold off a little while, though I do have a thread on the go for users to suggest fixes, improvements, etc to the Kronos os so that we get the best from our machines. It's a lot of money in a kronos 2 88 and LS88, etc and to feel that improvements haven't been seen is a bit worrying. like the Oasys.

I think you are new to the Kronos family. Thought to take a step back.

This is from the Korg website:

"Witness KRONOS. Created by KORG to satisfy today’s most demanding, accomplished performers and producers—as well as tomorrow’s visionary leaders"

I take this to confirm that Korg expects its owners to be demanding.
Korg re-created the exciting music workstation with Oasys and Kronos.
Thus the enthusiasm and resulting opinions/demands by long time owners and recent Kronos owners should be expected.

Your wish list is always welcome. Feel free to start a poll anytime.

I usually try to err on the side of being organized and allow any key facts or changes to surface. Which is why I suggested waiting after NAMM. Possibly in Feb we might get a further sense of Korg's development plans.

I like to plan based on NAMM and February. It would be great/efficient to have native improvements in Kronos. If not, and if there are no other Korg products, my money goes elsewhere.
_________________
Kronos 88. MODX8
Achieve your musical dreams Smile

https://soundcloud.com/user-898236994

LewTheKeyboardGuy
Junior Member

Joined: 25 Nov 2018
Posts: 82
Location: North Wales. UK

Posted: Sun Jan 20, 2019 1:32 am Post subject:

GregC wrote:

LewTheKeyboardGuy wrote:

Though a recent owner to the kronos family, I have been a korg user for more years than I remember, going back to the M1, 01W ProX, Wavestation EX, Trinity, Triton Rack, etc now the Kronos. So In effect I have some ground with Korg,

I would like to refer to a marketing statement in your reply. It is all well and good when a manufacturer states at launch of a product that the product is based on user input, etc. The issue here is the fact that across various forums, there are concerns regarding matters such as the OS, hardware issues, SSD freezes, etc and as such, in the time that the Kronos 2 has been on the market, there's been no major changes, As I've said, it's all well and good releasing a kronos Gold, Kronos Platinum and the Kronos SE, but under the hood, no changes, yet there is a price increase for a single metal panel and 2 end cheeks. See where I'm coming from? Great workstation, but when it comes to developments over the last 3, nearly 4 years, no exciting changes. I do genuinely believe that Korg needs to focus on the statement they've used to sell their machines and focus on the Kronos workstations which serve professionals, touring artists, etc all over the world. these are amongst the highest selling units.

I rely heavily on the resources of the kronos machines I have here, love them to bits, but I wish there were certain things that could easily be solved. Yes, I've been keeping an eye on forums all over the place regarding user opinions over the kronos, Part of me didn't want to go ahead, but after some time road testing, compared to other rigs, also the lack of systems which met my needs, the kronos is part of the family and I'm proud of that. I'm not wading in for the sake of it, I have background experience in system and equipment design as well as integration, so that's where my skills come in to play. It's funny how technology plays such a huge part of our lives, yet the technologies we use and work with, either evolves or stays. I fondly remember the 01WProX as my first piano workstation, bloody hell it weighed a ton and if you weren't careful you could mess up the woodwork (ply?) but other than that, it was a machine I used to write a good fiew pieces, record and tour with, I still owned my 01WProX along with all my old korg gear up until the studio closure December 2017, so it was a real heart breaker letting go.

Let's see what happens in the coming weeks with Korg.

Oh, What the heck is this Korg IZOTOPE? check the page, ERROR 404 (should come with a sound effect, something like a chav being stamped on)

lew

GregC
Platinum Member

Joined: 15 May 2002
Posts: 9451
Location: Discovery Bay (San Francisco Bay Area)

Posted: Sun Jan 20, 2019 3:36 am Post subject:

LewTheKeyboardGuy wrote:

[

I would like to refer to a marketing statement in your reply. It is all well and good when a manufacturer states at launch of a product that the product is based on user input, etc. The issue here is the fact that across various forums, there are concerns regarding matters such as the OS, hardware issues, SSD freezes, etc and as such, in the time that the Kronos 2 has been on the market, there's been no major changes, As I've said, it's all well and good releasing a kronos Gold, Kronos Platinum and the Kronos SE, but under the hood, no changes, yet there is a price increase for a single metal panel and 2 end cheeks.

See where I'm coming from? Great workstation, but when it comes to developments over the last 3, nearly 4 years, no exciting changes. I do genuinely believe that Korg needs to focus on the statement they've used to sell their machines and focus on the Kronos workstations which serve professionals, touring artists, etc all over the world. these are amongst the highest selling units.

I rely heavily on the resources of the kronos machines I have here, love them to bits, but I wish there were certain things that could easily be solved. Yes, I've been keeping an eye on forums all over the place regarding user opinions over the kronos, Part of me didn't want to go ahead, but after some time road testing, compared to other rigs, also the lack of systems which met my needs, the kronos is part of the family and I'm proud of that. I'm not wading in for the sake of it, I have background experience in system and equipment design as well as integration, so that's where my skills come in to play. It's funny how technology plays such a huge part of our lives, yet the technologies we use and work with, either evolves or stays.

Let's see what happens in the coming weeks with Korg.

lew

Hi Lew, us long time Kronos owners have made noise, know the flaws/constraints, voiced concerns, have 100's of wish lists. There isn't anything surprising. We know about occasional defects on new K's. There should not be any. It is what it is. Retailers take stuff back, do exchanges. Credit cards
protect the consumer. We have 2 yr warranties.

Kronos is a compromise. Even with the marketing blurbs. This is mostly understood. We know the OS updates have stopped. Getting a sense development plans is like finding a needle in a haystack. Its a waiting game. I have my own deadline.

Kronos and Korg should not make anyone lose sleep. I think its fair to say
your K should work perfectly for 8 or more years. What the Kronos does is considerably greater than what it does not do. Which is why the thing continues to sell in 2019.

For myself, I do not buy anything expensive based on speculation . Just the same, I am a Korg watcher.
_________________
Kronos 88. MODX8
Achieve your musical dreams Smile

https://soundcloud.com/user-898236994

marc1
Full Member

Joined: 04 May 2015
Posts: 119

Posted: Sun Jan 20, 2019 9:24 am Post subject:

GregC wrote:

Quote:

us long time Kronos owners... have 100's of wish lists

See, and that's what I fail to understand. We all know Kronos is an old product with many having even gone so far as to state that it's basically an updated Oasys (which it may well be, realisticly). So, we're dealing with a product that's been around for a while (14 years with Oasys), with all its "flaws/constraints" well known to the majority.

But here's the thing. Most if not all prospect owners of Kronos had the ability to testdrive the thing in store. Most if not all know about this forum, where they can ask questions and get an evaluation by actual owners. Most if not all have access to Kronos documentation (e.g. Parameter Guide etc.) where they can get a sense of what this machine is capable of. There are dozens and dozens if not hundreds of videos showcasing Kronos and its capabilities (partly in detail). There has been a significant software update with the introduction of Kronos 2 which addressed (some, not all) requests by Kronos owners.

And yet the general consensus seems to be that Kronos is a somewhat unfinished product that needs some major overhaul. But... in the end, we've all bought Kronos on the premise of what it can actually do, not what it's supposed to do in fantasy land. I highly doubt that Korg is willing or able to ever meet these insatiable demands.

I understand when there are concerns with bugs or problems with Kronos functionality, which (in the past) revealed Kronos to be not always quite like what's been advertised. But other than some kind of general maintenance it's questionable wether we as a community should ask for the fulfillment of an ever increasing catalogue of wishes.

Quote:

I think its fair to say
your K should work perfectly for 8 or more years. What the Kronos does is considerably greater than what it does not do.

Quote:

I do not buy anything expensive based on speculation .

+1

And that's what anyone should do, generally.

LewTheKeyboardGuy
Junior Member

Joined: 25 Nov 2018
Posts: 82
Location: North Wales. UK

Posted: Sun Jan 20, 2019 11:58 am Post subject:

Something of interest to take note of... On the kronos page, there's an article regarding the Extra Voice list. In this voice list, it names the following EXS libraries. Bank USER CC - EXS21 SGX2 Italian Grand Bank USER DD - EXS272 KAPro Showcase. I would believe that the EXS21 is korg's own library based on the EXS timeline with KAPro products where the pianos start higher than this, but that's only an assumption. EXS 272 is KAPro's own product but does not show up on the shop list. So, there is the potential that after the NAMM show, maybe, only maybe, these libraries may appear on the Kronos libraries page. What I would like to say is this. For owners of the kronos 2 who recently purchased units, it'd be nice if korg at least offered us the libraries either free or heavily reduced price. It's a business interest they need to look into here. otherwise why would a current kronos owner want to buy a new kronos SE on the strength of 2 unique libraries?

LewTheKeyboardGuy
Junior Member

Joined: 25 Nov 2018
Posts: 82
Location: North Wales. UK

Posted: Sun Jan 20, 2019 12:20 pm Post subject:

marc1 wrote:

GregC wrote:

Quote:

us long time Kronos owners... have 100's of wish lists

Quote:

I think its fair to say
your K should work perfectly for 8 or more years. What the Kronos does is considerably greater than what it does not do.

Quote:

I do not buy anything expensive based on speculation .

+1

And that's what anyone should do, generally.

I agree with your comments here. In my case, it's not what's considered a "wish list. for me, my kronos rigs have literally replaced an entire production environment, having lost all my old korg gear including racks, protools rig, the lot, so more than anything, I rely on these two beauties to get me through the hard stuff.

The kronos isn't an unfinished work in any way, it's more a question of how the OS support and firmware support evolves for the product, or does it just die off like previous generations have?

Korg DO need to focus on some of the NECESSARY matters concerning the Kronos OS, not hardware, but the OS behaviour. these matters as you may know include:

--Move to 64 bit architecture for increased sample RAM,
--Change of partitioning structure of the disk used so that larger drives could be utilised correctly (change EXT2 to EXT3 or a newer linux File structure)
--Installation system to be changed from DVDR media to USB Pen Drive or external HDD format for reliability and remove compatibility issues surrounding optical media drives.
--USER bank handling optimised for greater storage of custom libraries - example - instead of USER AA, BB, CC, etc, open the method to AB, BA, etc so that not only can libraries be loaded, but also custom patches and other data could be made available.
--UI change to help users who are light dependent suffering from eye strain, etc. referring to PA4X Next OS model or similar to give kronos users a better, less eye strain intensive view.
--Ability for instrument libraries from developers to binstalled to locations the user wants, not a forced structure.

This is just my take on it, but to me, these are rather necessary changes. There's more to it than I'm able to throw at it but the difference between a wish list and priorities is exactly that, priorities. We have a logic board with 2 ram slots, 1 occupied by a 4gb stick, why not open the OS to 64 bit, 8GB ram or more depending on the assignment of RAM handling on the board so that sample data can be loaded. With regard my statement about the OS install / restore media, some may be aware that the OS installer detects the drive to check disk size, if disk is over 128gb, it freezes, because it uses EXT2 partitioning which is old standard for a 32 bit OS like windows used to be before noah hung up his hat and sold his ark to B&Q

GregC
Platinum Member

Joined: 15 May 2002
Posts: 9451
Location: Discovery Bay (San Francisco Bay Area)

Posted: Sun Jan 20, 2019 4:25 pm Post subject:

LewTheKeyboardGuy wrote:

Something of interest to take note of...

On the kronos page, there's an article regarding the Extra Voice list.

In this voice list, it names the following EXS libraries.

1)Bank USER CC - EXS21 SGX2 Italian Grand
Bank USER DD - EXS272 KAPro Showcase.

2]I would believe that the EXS21 is korg's own library based on the EXS timeline with KAPro products where the pianos start higher than this, but that's only an assumption.

3]EXS 272 is KAPro's own product but does not show up on the shop list.

So, there is the potential that after the NAMM show, maybe, only maybe, these libraries may appear on the Kronos libraries page.

What I would like to say is this. For owners of the kronos 2 who recently purchased units, it'd be nice if korg at least offered us the libraries either free or heavily reduced price.

4] It's a business interest they need to look into here. otherwise why would a current kronos owner want to buy a new kronos SE on the strength of 2 unique libraries?

[ i number points to add more info, etc]

1) My user banks are 90% full.
My User CC has the Berlin and Korg level programming using it. User DD has the KRS07 drawbar organs which are important.

Too bad Korg did not take the step to create an additional INT [internal] factory bank. For example, INT-H and INT-I

Additional banks is a top wish list item [ sorry, marc1]

The issue isn't simply data management. Its lack of banks, somewhat due to the large # of very good 3rd party sample libs.

2] The KaPro Italian piano is EXs75. Might be interesting to compare this
with the SE Italian

3] Exs272 is onSoundCloud.

KaPro offered it before the official Korg announcement. They tipped the SE and the Exs 272 accidentally. This Exs got removed after a 1 day, I recall

4] Even with the inconvenience of occupying User banks, I am most interested
in new Korg programming. If Korg did a masterful job with 256 programs using the Italian and Exs272 , the SE would get my interest.

Assuming that neither new sample and programming is offered separately.

To offer the new sounds { some cost] to the Kronos community would be optimum.
_________________
Kronos 88. MODX8
Achieve your musical dreams Smile

https://soundcloud.com/user-898236994

marc1
Full Member

Joined: 04 May 2015
Posts: 119

Posted: Sun Jan 20, 2019 5:07 pm Post subject:

GregC wrote:

Quote:

Additional banks is a top wish list item [ sorry, marc1]

You don't have to be sorry at all. And here seems to be a general misunderstanding. I am one of those guys who'd love to see a sequencer update, who'd love to see some additional sound content for free (not just the sounds Jack Hotop hinted at), who'd love to see improvements here and there too. Heck, I'm one of those guys who knows very well that current technology is capable of far far more things than what we see and experience with Kronos But I'm realistic enough to understand that we as Kronos owners have no leverage to negotiate such things with Korg. We already paid for the instrument as is and yet everyone here seems completely oblivious to this fact.

This may put some people off from buying another Korg product again. But on the other hand expectations have gone up so high, that I seriously wonder whether these same people have lost touch with reality also in their personal lives. Because you can't view Kronos isolated from the current music industry and there are simply no real contenders to the Kronos concept right now, which leaves Korg in an even more comfortable position to decide what we're "allowed" to get or not.

ITguy54
Full Member

Joined: 22 Mar 2015
Posts: 245

Posted: Sun Jan 20, 2019 9:06 pm Post subject:

marc1 wrote:

GregC wrote:

Quote:

Additional banks is a top wish list item [ sorry, marc1]

That’s all well and good UNTIL (and if) someone else decides to take on the Kronos and Korg waited too long.

kronoSphere
Platinum Member

Joined: 04 Jan 2012
Posts: 697

Posted: Mon Jan 21, 2019 2:37 am Post subject:

Please Korg, finally : No Kronos 3 or 4 or 5. Just an entirely NEW machine. _________________ trees are going fast. https://www.lairdeparis.fr Current Gear : Kronos 88 / Seaboard Rise / Triton Extreme / Sequoia / Motif Rack XS / TC Helicon voicelive rack /Awave 11 / Audio & VSTi plug-ins connected /wide touchscreen / iPad Pro 512.

billysynth1
Platinum Member

Joined: 22 Jan 2005
Posts: 1148
Location: Australia/Melbourne

Posted: Mon Jan 21, 2019 9:06 am Post subject:

Yep...just an entirely NEW modern and more power house machine. Vas _________________ Yamaha C1 Grand Piano. Korg Oasys 88, Jupiter 80 Kronos 88, V Synth GT I am a student of classical piano...I am not a classical pianist.

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