Korg Forums Forum Index Korg Forums
A forum for Korg product users and musicians around the world.
Moderated Independently.
Owned by Irish Acts Recording Studio & hosted by KORG USA
 
 FAQFAQ   SearchSearch   MemberlistMemberlist   UsergroupsUsergroups   RegisterRegister 
 ProfileProfile   Log in to check your private messagesLog in to check your private messages   Log inLog in 

Korg Kronos is moving too much
Goto page 1, 2  Next
 
Post new topic   Reply to topic    Korg Forums Forum Index -> Korg Kronos
View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
Flabis66



Joined: 13 Oct 2018
Posts: 27

PostPosted: Sun Feb 03, 2019 9:55 pm    Post subject: Korg Kronos is moving too much Reply with quote

Hi,
A few month ago, I got the Kronos 2 88 with the K&M 18810 stand and till now i was happy with it as I was just jamming and exploring sound banks. But now, I want to continue to make my piano tutorials (like this one: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_FVNKFI3KSg) with my Kronos, so i can sell my Kawai piano. My camera is fixed on a camera foot in a way to see my hands from the top but after watching my first record, I've realised that the keyboard is moving really too much.
Example here (watch at 1:45): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X_peNX-mkzU&t=146s.
I've already used the Final Cut Pro stabiliser to fix the problem but now we can see the ground moving.
I've tried to put my keyboard on my desk, but it's really too high and it's also moving, even more.

Do you have any suggestion to make it more stable ?
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
narkosys



Joined: 13 Mar 2017
Posts: 11

PostPosted: Sun Feb 03, 2019 11:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I am thinking that the stand is in need of some cross braces to help stabilize. Would a Hercules Z stand work better? Not trying to spend your money, just throwing some ideas out there.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
LewTheKeyboardGuy
Junior Member


Joined: 25 Nov 2018
Posts: 69
Location: North Wales. UK

PostPosted: Sun Feb 03, 2019 11:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I really would consider an A frame stand for this, not only height but angle / projection will make significant improvement.

Korg's Sequenz brand is worth a look at, ok a bit pricy but it's a tailored solution, can't remember the model off by heart but have a look anyway.

on the stands front, I went through this hell with Quik-Lok after taking on a WS421 +422 add-on. WORST DECISION EVER! As I use 2 kronos rigs, the LS is on top, the arms for the 2nd tier mean that it doesn't support the LS properly because of the way the metal profile under the keybed slopes at a 45 degree bevel, meaning the feet of the arms don't grab the keyboard properly, so a comfortable working position is impossible. so at some point, I need to look in to an A Frame rig as I can't seem to find anything that really caters.

for your own situation, you need something that's more solid and can either be adjusted, or maybe a custom solution. Good luck in your search my friend. you'll find what you need somehow.
_________________
Life is too short to worry about endless issues. Love and be loved, conquer all that can be achieved. Oh... Yes.... Farts can be considered musical instruments too!
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
DeltaJockey
Full Member


Joined: 27 Jul 2015
Posts: 240
Location: East Gippsland, Australia

PostPosted: Mon Feb 04, 2019 12:25 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have a Kronos on one of these stands. They are excellent in my opinion. Mine is rock solid.
Is it the stand which is moving or the Kronos on the stand? The reason I ask is that it is important to have the right contact points from the base of the keyboard to the stand. Some extra self adhesive rubber pads attached in the right place across the stand should shore up any instability.

I actually have the second tier attachment also set up for my laptop, and I have made some customised metal extensions for a monitor mounts. In my case I find the most stable setup is to have Kronos rear rubber feet to align with the crossbar on the stand with my metal extensions attached in line with length of the keyboard so as to extend the stand frame....if that makes any sense.

My point though is to provide the correct support in the right places Smile
_________________
Kronos2-88, Kronos2-73, Kawai Acoustic Grand, Roland FA07, Yamaha MODX8, Roland Integra7, Casio PX560, NI Komplete Ultimate 11
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
KK
Senior Member


Joined: 13 Oct 2016
Posts: 414

PostPosted: Mon Feb 04, 2019 1:51 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi there,

I personally use a KS-7350 Z-stand. No movement at all with my 85-lbs MIDIboard on top. Oh and BTW, nice piece there (the elegy).
_________________
Musician, solution designer for keyboard instruments and more.
Kronos : Color LEDs mod
Kronos : Custom velocity curves
Kronos : Aftertouch hardware solution
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Flabis66



Joined: 13 Oct 2018
Posts: 27

PostPosted: Mon Feb 04, 2019 1:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Oh, thank you all for your help.

Quote:
I have a Kronos on one of these stands. They are excellent in my opinion. Mine is rock solid.

The seller where i bought the Kronos and the stand, told me that this model of stand is the most stable.
I din't realise that it's moving till i made my first record from the top. And it's moving only when i play fortissimo.

BTW, I also own almost all the stand accessories (second level for my M-audio keyboard, ipad holder, microphone harm...), but I removed them for recording.

Quote:
Is it the stand which is moving or the Kronos on the stand?

The keyboard is not moving on the stand, it's the stand itself that is moving, but this tip helped to investigate more deeply and while i was shaking my keyboard i saw my camera also moving, even if the camera foot doesn't touch the piano stand. So apparently the problem comes from the ground !!! See video:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7vSUDtagxgs

It's a brand new house with a floating oak ground and as we rent the house, we cannot change the ground surface.
So now i have to find a way to fix that issue.
My Kawai CS8, on the same place, was not moving at all, so if i find a way to make my stand heavier, it should work. Any suggestion?
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
lidserter



Joined: 23 Apr 2012
Posts: 49

PostPosted: Mon Feb 04, 2019 1:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Things gets loose with use, i would check the stand screws first and give them a twist, specially as someone pointed there is no crossing bar so one would expect a lot of mechanical stress on the couplings.
_________________
Korg Kross 2 61, Korg microStation, Korg monologue, Alesis Vortex wireless v1, Nektar Impact LX88, CME Xkey 25, Peak FCB8N, JBL LSR305 monitors, Jackson DK2S, Washburn X series, Lag Tramontane, ENGL e530, TC electronic G-Major II, Rocktron Velocity 300, 2x12" Celestion V30s cabinet.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
janrhansen



Joined: 10 Jan 2019
Posts: 7
Location: Odense, Denmark

PostPosted: Mon Feb 04, 2019 5:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

If you want a good stand for Piano or Organ with the possibility for an exstra (fixed angle) keyb arm you might look at the K&M KS2000. Propably one of the best stands available if you are sitting for playing Piano/Organ, espcially if you need space for a midi Pedal board.
_________________
Korg Kronos 2-73, Crumar Mojo 61, Roland A90ex, Yamaha P9000Pro, Korg T3, Roland PK5, Presonus AudioBox 22vsl


Last edited by janrhansen on Mon Feb 04, 2019 5:09 pm; edited 1 time in total
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Flabis66



Joined: 13 Oct 2018
Posts: 27

PostPosted: Mon Feb 04, 2019 5:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

As I mentioned here before, the problem is not the stand but the ground Sad
It’s moving when I move (my body) but not when I play
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
19naia
Platinum Member


Joined: 29 Nov 2012
Posts: 1030

PostPosted: Mon Feb 04, 2019 7:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Flabis66 wrote:
As I mentioned here before, the problem is not the stand but the ground Sad
It’s moving when I move (my body) but not when I play


If it is the ground moving, then there is a bit you can do to dampen the transfer of your body movements to the ground. It could even come through the seat you are sitting on. Even come through the keyboard and stand without the keyboard and stand swaying.
Your stand lacks cross beam supports and that leaves me doubting it can be flawlessly stable. It may be a very stable stand but not free from sway entirely. Also you have things against the wall where the wall also carries vibrations from the ground

But coming from experience with earthquakes, the higher the tree or tall building, the more sway range at the top.
So,if you have your camera on a thin long boom or stick going up high, the height only amplifies the movement passed through from the ground.

Other than shortening the stick or boom holding the camera, you can try to stiffen the boom with more supports that block movement along the range of sway. But then if any of those parts touch the floor and wall, vibration can still come through, but the range of sway at the top where the camera sits, will be reduced and that is still an improvement.

Reminds how some of the most sensitive microphones, are seated in a floating configuration where the microphone is suspended from springs from at least four directions in a ring and that ring then connects to the boom.

Funny how even bird brains can do excellent real time picture stabilization regardless of huge sways of motion. But Hollywood spends millions $€£ in super high tech cameras and apparatus, designed by rare minds simply trying to get a camera that can always stabilize its focus around a pinpoint scene, just like the small bird does in this linked video~ https://youtu.be/nK3pOggIA7s
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
voip
Platinum Member


Joined: 27 Nov 2014
Posts: 1763

PostPosted: Mon Feb 04, 2019 8:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Having looked at the video, it would seem that it is the flexing of the laminate(?) flooring being transferred to the camera stand that is causing the issue. Attaching the camera mount to the wall would probably stop the camera shaking but, since this is a rental property, that's probably not an option.

It's also worth turning off the camera's autofocus, since there are a couple of occasions in the videos, the image became blurred and refocused again.

As 19naia suggested, reducing the length of the camera mount arm would reduce the amount of movement. Resting the two legs of the tripod on a long wooden plank might also reduce the amount of floor movemement picked up by the tripod, especially if the ends of the plank rest on something, to lift the middle section of the plank away from the laminate flooring nearest to the playing position. The plank would need to be substantial for the best effect, with dimensions in the region of at least 50mm thick, and maybe 200mm wide, and 2metres long.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
fomalhaut



Joined: 06 Jan 2015
Posts: 10

PostPosted: Mon Feb 04, 2019 9:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Of course there is a lot of keyboard movement at 01:45 but somehow I don't find it distracting at all while watching you playing the Kronos.

As a matter of fact, I find the headphones cable to be more distracting, but that's just my opinion.

By the way, great song and great playing. Just subscribed to your channel Wink
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
19naia
Platinum Member


Joined: 29 Nov 2012
Posts: 1030

PostPosted: Mon Feb 04, 2019 10:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

When it happened to me, the first time i looked back at the video of my playing, i thought the music was so good it had tapped into some kind of strange magic that was sending ripples through the very fabric of space-time.
The camera was appearantly picking up rippling of space-time fabric.

But it turned out to be my camera/iPad leaning against the speakers that sent fine reverberations through the camera, and also the flimsy boxes the speakers were on, the boxes were picking up sway from the keyboard that they are touching in a compact fit of everything in a small space.

But i still believe one day someone is going to program a sound with the right vibrations and the right mix of parameter settings, and end up rippling if not ripping the very fabric of space-time. And then will end up here looking for help before something crosses over form the other side.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
voip
Platinum Member


Joined: 27 Nov 2014
Posts: 1763

PostPosted: Tue Feb 05, 2019 8:18 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Warping the fabric of laminate flooring, perhaps? ;-)
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Flabis66



Joined: 13 Oct 2018
Posts: 27

PostPosted: Tue Feb 05, 2019 11:38 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

oh thanks for your answers, very interesting remarks here!

I have another stool i can try. My new one with the wheels is more useful for moving from my desk to the keyboard.

When i record, i move/pull my keyboard so i can fully open the camera stand, and nothing is touching the wall. For the last video, i record with my webcam, just because it's more easy. I was too lazy to install my other camera. The webcam is always there anyway as i'm giving piano lesson remotely with Facetime or Skype. But i have a good Sony camera that i can use with a stabiliser. If i put the camera closer to the keyboard (to shorten the stick), then the picture is curved (like a fish-eye) and i really don't want that when i make a Synthesia style video tutorial.

And btw, on mac, i can't anymore block the auto focus on the logitech webcam, the logitech soft is not anymore supported Sad

I also record sometimes with my iphone that i attach to my microphone stick with the anti vibrating ring, and that helps a lot, you are totally right. But it takes me 10x more time to install everything and get a decent record, because i have to transfer the file to the computer to check if everything is ok (cadrage, light, focus...), and it's never ok before the 100th attempts. The grip hide the screen, so it's hard to check on the phone screen.

Another thing, i play only with my headphone to avoid vibrations caused by the sound ( i think).

The only problem is the ground, now i hate this house Sad , but we move very often, i'll take care about that for our next home.

Thanks for your help.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic   Reply to topic    Korg Forums Forum Index -> Korg Kronos All times are GMT
Goto page 1, 2  Next
Page 1 of 2

 
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum


Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2005 phpBB Group