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My only request as with others
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rpowell01
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 05, 2019 8:36 pm    Post subject: My only request as with others Reply with quote

Korg,

I am requestiong, begging you, to please ADD more COMBI and Program Initialized Banks so I (WE) don't have to constantly move programs/combis around without having to keep reloading the patch files. Korg has setup a sound shop online. A few years ago I began buying from them, a couple of KaPros, Irish Acts and maybe one other. I actually stopped buying them because of this one issue, not enough banks given to the Kronos. I like to have the freedom so whenever I turn on my Kronos I don't have to reload patches into a certain bank but the Kronos will automatically load what I had loaded already before I turned off my Kronos.

Does the Kronos, KronosX, Kronos v2 and Kronos V3 have the same amount of banks? Anyone?

Some of us can't keep spending money every 3-5 years to just purchase the "updates" or what you call upgrades.

Just a humble request to Korg which I know will fall on deaf ears because I've read this is the number 1 request so far that hasn't been really fulfilled except once. But its still the number 1 request still as of this day for us Kronos, myself KronosX users.
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GregC
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 05, 2019 9:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

you can keep knocking

But after 2 years of it, you could conclude no one is home.

Try the direct approach

Write to the President of Korg Japan
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rpowell01
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 05, 2019 10:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

GregC wrote:
you can keep knocking

But after 2 years of it, you could conclude no one is home.

Try the direct approach

Write to the President of Korg Japan


I don't have enough "Pots and Pans" to speak nor write Japanese!!!! Sorry I had to, it was an old joke my friend, Chinese employee once told me on how the Asians name their kids....

I can tell you I won't be purchasing anything Korg for now on. If they expect to sale their sounds they should give us the banks to install them on without having to wipe out banks already there. How hard is it really to copy and paste code in the Kronos OS then rename the banks? And they best not even talk about memory or 32 bit lack of memory because they had their chances to fix this with Kronos 2 and now v3....For goodness they are using LINUX kernal and still 32 bit in 2019?

If I ever find a way into their OS trust me I will have the banks I need.
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GregC
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 05, 2019 11:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

rpowell01 wrote:
GregC wrote:
you can keep knocking

But after 2 years of it, you could conclude no one is home.

Try the direct approach

Write to the President of Korg Japan


I don't have enough "Pots and Pans" to speak nor write Japanese!!!! Sorry I had to, it was an old joke my friend, Chinese employee once told me on how the Asians name their kids....

I can tell you I won't be purchasing anything Korg for now on. If they expect to sale their sounds they should give us the banks to install them on without having to wipe out banks already there. How hard is it really to copy and paste code in the Kronos OS then rename the banks? And they best not even talk about memory or 32 bit lack of memory because they had their chances to fix this with Kronos 2 and now v3....For goodness they are using LINUX kernal and still 32 bit in 2019?

If I ever find a way into their OS trust me I will have the banks I need.


yeah, I hear you, everything is getting politically correct { that PC stuff] these days.

I agree with you, we have to make our voice heard with our credit card/wallet

The gripes about too few banks goes back to 7 years ago. Korg added more banks with an OS update in 2015 which helped.

But srsly, that was long ago, and numerous 3rd party sample libs all battling over the same user banks since then.

There are software tools that can help juggle user banks but I am not excited about workarounds all the time. My banks are 90% full and I spend a lot of time managing the data. When I would like to playing my K and writing more songs.

I think the expansion is restricted by the underlying OS programming. But it could be a a few factors causing limits. Its sure is not SSD space- storage is super cheap.
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Mike Conway
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 06, 2019 12:46 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

While I see the convenience in having more than 2,688 writable program banks, and 1,792 combi banks (with 16 tone adjust layers, for reprogramming all programs into something unrecognizable from the original), the truth is, I only use less than 50 programs, per project.

Every single project I do, gets its own Directory File, so I can load the sounds I need for it. These days, I'm using multiple 3rd party banks. The main issue I run into is broken links for wave sequences. There are enough wave sequence banks in Global, but often sound designers use the same banks.

For me, not a memory issue, but rather organizational. I fix the broken links, by moving wavesequences to a different bank. With no PC editor of any kind! Very Happy Just the Kronos. I just haven't bothered to learn any of them - Tidy, PCGtools, etc. I downloaded one, but never used it.

But, make no mistake, I would love to have 10,000 programs, 500 note polyphony, 32 part combis, 32 gigs of RAM, and 5 IFX per part (160 total). That would solve my gluttony. Oh, yeah - enough analogue filters for 16 voices. Here's looking towards NAMM 2020. Twisted Evil
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GregC
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 06, 2019 7:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mike Conway wrote:
While I see the convenience in having more than 2,688 writable program banks, and 1,792 combi banks (with 16 tone adjust layers, for reprogramming all programs into something unrecognizable from the original), the truth is, I only use less than 50 programs, per project.

Every single project I do, gets its own Directory File, so I can load the sounds I need for it. These days, I'm using multiple 3rd party banks. The main issue I run into is broken links for wave sequences. There are enough wave sequence banks in Global, but often sound designers use the same banks.

:


I don't know, Mike. Those #'s sound impressive. But I am not being greedy or unorganized by pointing out the limited bank issue.

Here is why.

lets focus on Programs. I work primarily in Program mode for my song writing and the SEQ for recording.

11 program banks in my Kronos [ with the " New " Sound Pack] are Korg Factory
Programs. The 11 Program banks are then organized by Instrument category.

Effectively my K is identical to the Kronos 2 from 2015, with the full utilization
of 11 Program banks filled up by Korg.

I am reluctant to over write Korg factory programming in the 11 Program banks.

As I grow my original material, I find myself using a variety of drum kits and instruments. Kong drums are fantastic, for example. I might be the only Kronos
musician using the Bells and Vocals Programs.

In hindsight, I am really glad I never blew away Drums/Bells/Mallet/Vocals/Airy
programs 5 years ago.

So whats left ? 3 empty user banks for Programs. Given the quality of 3rd party
sample libs, that is inadequate to work with. And I am selective about what
3rd party stuff I buy.

Ok, you work on 1 project at a time and have custom PCG's and select KSC's.
That is an excellent approach.

However, I have 2-3 song projects going . All very different. Plus I have folks
stopping by who listen to my older material from a year ago.

True, I can stop and load, play 1st song project.. Then stop and load, play 2nd project stop and load, play 3rd song project. I consider this a work around
and it is time consuming and it gets in the way of my creative flow.

And yes, I like and load all the acoustic pianos. German, Japanese, Berlin. And possibly the Italian, if Korg decides this is a priority for long time Kronos owners.

IOW, I need the full palette every day. I suppose my post sounds bitchey, but it iis factual.

As a realist, I don't expect Korg
to expand beyond the miserly 3 User Programs banks that are potentially open.

Like you, I will have to eventually adapt and load by project. Or see if any
of the Kronos freeware works with Mac.

The more obvious solution is to expand my recording platform and buy more keyboards/VST's. Which is my conclusion given NAMM 2019.

Always great to air this stuff out, Mike. Thanks !
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burningbusch
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 06, 2019 8:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

There are six banks free after the Sound Pack 3.0 update. U-G and U-CC thru U-GG. There are 14 banks + GM filled with Korg factory programs.

All banks, including Int banks, can be overwritten. There are many factory programs I'll never use so I freely overwrite them. I can bring them back in a few seconds.

I've long had the approach that the Kronos I own is MINE, not Korg's, so it's filled with sounds of my choosing, not theirs.

Busch.
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Mike Conway
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 06, 2019 8:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

GregC wrote:

I don't know, Mike. Those #'s sound impressive. But I am not being greedy or unorganized by pointing out the limited bank issue.


I totally understand. I'm not screwing around, when I tout those numbers, above. The issue is memory. Maybe someone can link to what Dan Phillips said about what adding extra banks means for the rest of Kronos' memory? There is an actual issue with the current system.

At least, they did add 7 program banks, after Kronos first came out.

What you guys want will probably require a new workstation that touts larger RAM, etc. Again, I want more poly, bigger combis and more IFX. I think Korg needs to make a radical jump (power and organization) to make the Kronos next generation.

Imagine self contained Combis that don't just point to program banks, but rather fully contain the program banks. No more broken links. Imagine that programs contain their own drum kits, and wavesequences. No more pointing to Global banks. Also, imagine that each program had its own dedicated IFX. When you put that program into a Combi or Sequence, it's ready to go, effects and all. That is what needs to happen.




For now, I will point out that a project directory, with SNG and PCG files does work. This past month, I've been scoring three seperate projects, which required me to open up each, while another was going on.

The first one is a trailer for BLISS, a comedy pilot. BLISS requires pop sounds, and I actually use a lot of Combis and beats for it.

The second, is a short movie called PREFIGURED, which requires electronic based sounds.

The third project is AXEMAS 2. It requires orchestral sounds. I have 30 cues (songs) for it. Not sounds, but rather 30 seperate songs, with different programs and effects.

The danger of doing a lot of projects, close together, is that producer B (PREFIGURED) moves up his deadline, so he can make a festival, while I'm working with producer C (AXEMAS 2). Then producer A (BLISS) has a trailer revision, where females sing the jingle, instead of a male.

No problem! I save AXEMAS 2 PCG and SNG files. I open up PREFIGURED SNG & PCG files. Finish it. Save. I then open up the BLISS SNG & PCG files. Make some changes. Save. I re-open the AXEMAS 2 files. I'm finishing that, today!



What's great about doing these last couple of projects, is that I realize that the Kronos is quite powerful, as it is. I know some of you don't want to do the "workarounds," but I've got it down to a workflow that just works.

My workarounds can be extensive, in some cases, such as making 50 new programs, so that KApro sounds have plenty of polyphony, when sequencing 16 of them for AXEMAS 2 songs. I dedicated a bank just for that.

Lastly, the nice thing about a project directory (PCG & SNG) is that I can edit and overwrite any program I want. It's not going to affect another project, when I load it. It's a liberated way of working. No fear of screwing up programs, in fact, I'm encouraged to mess with them. "This is my project. I'm going to do whatever I want..."
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GregC
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 06, 2019 9:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

burningbusch wrote:
There are six banks free after the Sound Pack 3.0 update. U-G and U-CC thru U-GG. There are 14 banks + GM filled with Korg factory programs.

All banks, including Int banks, can be overwritten. There are many factory programs I'll never use so I freely overwrite them. I can bring them back in a few seconds.

I've long had the approach that the Kronos I own is MINE, not Korg's, so it's filled with sounds of my choosing, not theirs.

Busch.


I started with the 6 number originally, 2011.

I recall Korg created additional factory programs that were free sometime after Kronos 2011. In addition there were additional programs not part of the original Preload. They were of the Mellotron/tape category and a few other categories.

That took me down to 4 open Program banks. So I stand corrected . Its not 3 as I posted above but 4.

I could possibly swap around some programs and pick up a mostly open program that will temporarily provide some room.

Simply, we have different requirements. For example, you may not care about ambient drum programs. I use them all the time.

I much prefer a full palette to work with at any time.
You over write factory programming and I do not.

This is a main reason I love Kronos- to take advantage of Korgs
sound programming expertise. And many of the 3rd party sample libs
are excellent. They add to my sound palette.

It would be easier and take less time to not have a bank limit.

I have nearly 50 Songs on the SEQ that require my primary PCG.
Once I have additional PCG's and build additional songs from them, I will need
to label them to go back and forth, use different Directories.

Kronos is flexible and allows musicians to pursue their craft. It could be
sound programming, live performance, song writing, etc etc or a combination of all. Bottom line, once close to a limit, its time to adapt.

i don't expect Korg to expand our K's any further. I don't recall any promise they would do so for " x " years.
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Mike Conway
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 06, 2019 9:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Some photos to illustrate how I organize. This is my from my 128 gig USB stick, which I plug back and forth between the computer and the Kronos. There is actually a top layer that has seperate folders for OASYS and Kronos. This is the Kronos folder.


SAMPLES - any sample sets or recorded sample sounds go here.

PROGRAMS - my collection of programs, DX7, 3rd party sounds, Korg HD-1, EXi, etc.

SONGS - individual moments of inspiration, collections. SNG & PCG files.

PROJECTS - usually a movie score, commercial, industrial video, etc. This is the folder we will open in photo #2.





Project folders.





Opening the AXEMAS2 folder. For each SNG save, I save an A and B version to the Internal HD. I also save an A and B version to the USB drive. The idea is, if the power goes out and the file corrupts, I can go to my most recent save. I'll work on the A version for an hour or two, then save to the B version.

I only need one PCG file on each drive. I usually just load and save the SEQ file, which is very quick.

Also, the files are time stamped, so I can see the most recent one.





Opening the AXEMAS2 SNG file. A few of the songs seen here. If I mess up, I can load an individual song.

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SeedyLee
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 07, 2019 11:29 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The banks in the Kronos aren't really designed to store every sound you've ever encountered and may one day use. They're there to provide immediate access to the sounds you use the most. Given that the Kronos is able to load sounds practically instantaneously, with SST, and still provide thousands of patch slots is remarkable.

That being said, there are a few things that can be done to make managing patches on the Kronos easier.

The first thing I do when buying a commercial sound library is to consolidate all the wave sequences and drum kits. Unfortunately, the way the file system on the Kronos works means that entire banks of Wave Sequences and Drum Kits have to be loaded at a time. This often means that only part of each bank is filled. I use the editor to go through and move all the wave sequences and drum kits into one or two banks, ensuring no overlaps, and I save the resultant PCG file.

The advantage of doing this is that, at any time in the future, I can load any program from a PCG file that I've previously used into any bank, and be assured that the required drum kits and wave sequences are where they need to be. The other advantage is that sounds can be previewed directly from disk, without needing to load them.

For each project i also save a complete PCG with the state of the Kronos at that point in time - instant recall.

Since doing this, I haven't found the bank limitations to be much of a problem at all. They do become a problem if you don't periodically have a "spring clean" as I mentioned above.
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GregC
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 07, 2019 4:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

SeedyLee wrote:
The banks in the Kronos aren't really designed to store every sound you've ever encountered and may one day use. They're there to provide immediate access to the sounds you use the most. Given that the Kronos is able to load sounds practically instantaneously, with SST, and still provide thousands of patch slots is remarkable.

e.


It sounds like you have a good process.

I have a few program/instruments I like. However, I prefer more diversity and being fluid.
This supports writing songs and showing different character and themes. I am similar to a 1 man band, playing /recording all instruments, using up to 16 midi tracks per song. Drum parts, bass, orchestra instruments , guitar, piano, synth sounds, etc etc.

In addition, I want to use Set List for my material, lets say 10 songs per set.
I am at 5 sets currently. Thinking out loud, it might be better to have 5 PCG's
for the 5 sets.

If I have a set list performance, I don't believe I could stop and load a PCG for each song. While the load process takes 5-10 seconds, my fumble fingers might not work 10 times on stage during a set.
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mikeyd
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 07, 2019 4:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thank you.

burningbusch wrote:
There are six banks free after the Sound Pack 3.0 update. U-G and U-CC thru U-GG. There are 14 banks + GM filled with Korg factory programs.

All banks, including Int banks, can be overwritten. There are many factory programs I'll never use so I freely overwrite them. I can bring them back in a few seconds.

I've long had the approach that the Kronos I own is MINE, not Korg's, so it's filled with sounds of my choosing, not theirs.

Busch.
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Lightbringer
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 07, 2019 8:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mike Conway wrote:


SONGS - individual moments of inspiration, collections. SNG & PCG files.



Some great tips in this thread. Thanks for sharing!

So does the PCG in the songs folder begin as a full save of the Kronos factory bank? Or if not, how do you build that?

Then, you load the PCG prior to loading the SNG file, and save over top of it at the end of your session?
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Mike Conway
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 07, 2019 9:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Lightbringer wrote:
So does the PCG in the songs folder begin as a full save of the Kronos factory bank? Or if not, how do you build that?


No need. The FACTORY folder in your Kronos HD has all of that. I do a full PCG save (all boxes checked), because I overwrite sounds in many banks. For example, I have custom sounds in the INT A, B, E and G. USER A - G are all full of KARO, KApro, EXs 16 programs. USER FF and GG are KApro, plus one or two others may have my stuff in them.

I literally mess with all the banks, so I just save a full PCG.
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