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Transpose-up is moving octave down instead of up.

 
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19naia
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Joined: 29 Nov 2012
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 09, 2019 2:18 pm    Post subject: Transpose-up is moving octave down instead of up. Reply with quote

I used an SFX catalog program in a combi and then tried the Timbre-parameters transpose but it did nothing.
I first zoned the entire SFX catalog program down to one note. A3 note only.
And then needed to shift the A3 sample up to A4 note.

So i went to the program in that timbre and did the transpose in the program mode.
It worked but i assumed shifting A3 up +12 would make it A4.
Shifting +12, took my A3 down to A2.
So i had to shift -12 to get the A3 to go up to A4.

It is shifting up to take me down and shifting down to take me up.

At least i know what is going on and can work backwards for full function of the settings.
But still i am wondering if i missed a setting somewhere that inverts the transpose direction to go opposite the setting input.... Question

Also not sure why using transpose in Combi mode’s timbre parameter did nothing at all. I will try to see if it is a conflict between having zoned the entire program down to a single note in program mode, and then leaving the combi timbre zoning open to all keys.

My headphones started working full again yesterday, after cutting out one side with the L/R mains as well. I am still using 3/4 indv. outs routing instead.
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ronnfigg
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Joined: 26 Mar 2011
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Location: CA

PostPosted: Sun Feb 10, 2019 7:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think it has something to do with MIDI note numbers, but then I was never good with math...
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mikelees
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Joined: 21 Mar 2012
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Location: Chelmsford, UK

PostPosted: Mon Feb 11, 2019 10:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sounds right to me. If you think of a pitched sound like a piano, transposing to +12 means it plays an octave higher than it was before, so pressing the key A3 means it now plays the note A4 - i.e. the sample for note A4 has moved from key A4 down to key A3. As you transpose the pitch UP, the samples for each note move DOWN.

Exactly the same logic applies to unpitched samples like sound effects - the samples move down as you transpose up - so it seems confusing, but it does make sense!
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ronnfigg
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Joined: 26 Mar 2011
Posts: 1931
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 11, 2019 10:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

mikelees wrote:
Sounds right to me. If you think of a pitched sound like a piano, transposing to +12 means it plays an octave higher than it was before, so pressing the key A3 means it now plays the note A4 - i.e. the sample for note A4 has moved from key A4 down to key A3. As you transpose the pitch UP, the samples for each note move DOWN.

Exactly the same logic applies to unpitched samples like sound effects - the samples move down as you transpose up - so it seems confusing, but it does make sense!

Thanks Mike.
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19naia
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Joined: 29 Nov 2012
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 12, 2019 5:39 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

mikelees wrote:
Sounds right to me. If you think of a pitched sound like a piano, transposing to +12 means it plays an octave higher than it was before, so pressing the key A3 means it now plays the note A4 - i.e. the sample for note A4 has moved from key A4 down to key A3. As you transpose the pitch UP, the samples for each note move DOWN.

Exactly the same logic applies to unpitched samples like sound effects - the samples move down as you transpose up - so it seems confusing, but it does make sense!


Brilliant. I had to read it twice or thrice just to get the concept in the speil to sink in.
It did sink in. Thanks.
Transpose up means giving more key space to higher notes and thus lower notes have to get out of the way by moving down.
Amazing how a sample of a screaming chimpanzee can draw me in so much that i couldn’t take the time to think through how a regular piano transposes notes physically on the key register.
I always listen to the transpose tonally and that made space in my head for the illusion that the keys are transposing up with the tone.

I was not thinking of myself as a backwards kind of guy, but appearantly i had a backwards mentality about transpose all along.
And it took a sample of a screaming chimpanzee to set me on course to evolve out of my backwards ways.

I read a research article about chimps having better short term memory than humans.
Like they are less likely to get up to go to the kitchen for a snack but instead find themsleves unzipped at the toilet and wondering why they are there without any urge to go.

Hmm. thanks. I feel evolved now.
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mikelees
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Joined: 21 Mar 2012
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Location: Chelmsford, UK

PostPosted: Tue Feb 12, 2019 7:20 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Not backwards at all! What is completely intuitive for pitched sounds is completely counter-intuitive for unpitched sounds. I have to admit I’ve transposed sfx patches in the past without ever questioning why it was that way round. I had to think it through as well - just like the chimps we don’t learn unless we get curious about things...
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