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Kronos Pads to External Synth

 
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Chimera45



Joined: 15 Jun 2019
Posts: 5

PostPosted: Sat Jun 15, 2019 6:06 am    Post subject: Kronos Pads to External Synth Reply with quote

Hi Guys,

Been using a Kronos2-61 live for a couple of years now. All good, rock solid, no issues. Decided to pull an old Triton EX76 out of the attic. Still a great unit.

On the Kronos, I mostly use combis with some internal pads with chords assigned to keys. Is there a way to have those chords in their full glory sent to the Triton to layer up sounds? I'm getting the single note trigger on the Triton but not the full chord. Maybe a Karma trick or something simple i've missed?

On Global Midi tab, i have switched between Chord notes/Pad CC but no change. I have looked over the manual and browsed the stickies here first but to no avail.

Hopefully someone can shed some light to whether this is even possible.

Thanks!
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alland
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Joined: 17 Jun 2009
Posts: 516
Location: Estonia

PostPosted: Sat Jun 15, 2019 8:31 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Please clairfy a bit what you do and what you want to achieve. Let me assume:

1) You have created PADs in a Program or Combi and assignedthem to some midi notes (Global->Controllers)
2) Pads ore on Global MIDI Channel if you want to control them from Kronos keyboard assigned keys
3) You connected your Kronos MIDI OUT -> Triton MIDI IN
4) You have setting "Global->MIDI->Pads MIDI Out="Chord notes"
5) When you press assigned key on Kronos, Kronos plays chord and transmits chord notes over MIDI and if Triton receiving channel is set te same as Kronos Global Channel, then Triton plays chord as well - hopefully.
6) When you play other notes than assigned to pad chords, these notes go to Triton as well and this is you do not want?

I think solution could be:
1) You control PAD/chords from Triton - for that you assign PAD on Kronos (both PAD channel and sounds you want Kronos to play for PAD chords) to some other MIDI channel than Global and configure Triton to send/receive MIDI on that channel
1a) Another option is to use any other MIDI gear for triggering Kronos Pads either by note or CC message
2) Now when you trigger PAD, then its notes using different MIDI channel you have set and Triton (or itse sounds you want to hear with PADs) is set to same channel and Kronos + Triton sounds play together, but your "ordinary playing" on Kronos is on Kronos Global Channel and Triton does not play that.

This and that can be done also in different way, mostly utilizing different MIDI channels, but I just assumed what you want to achieve. If you want something different, please explain how exactly you want your gear to behave, what did you do and what happened and in which way it was not that what you wanted.
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Chimera45



Joined: 15 Jun 2019
Posts: 5

PostPosted: Sat Jun 15, 2019 10:10 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi alland,

1,2,3 & 4 are correct. 5 is what i'm trying to achieve.

I'm actually using the Triton in Combi mode as well with global midi channel set to 2. That allows me to set a program within the combi to midi channel 1 to allow for layering from the Kronos whilst still being able to play the Triton independently (if that makes sense). The keyboard zone on the Triton within the combi is set to max range.

The keys that are assigned to pads on the Kronos DO transmit midi to the Triton but only the single note rather than the full chord from the pad. If i go into Program mode (Kronos) and physically play the pads on screen, the full chord is sent to the Triton. In Combi or Seq mode, only single notes from the keybed are sent.

It almost feels like the pad system is it's own entity or midi generator. It's not the end of the world if it can't be done but it would be great to layer the pad output with sounds from the Triton, or any other external synth.

Very grateful for your reply!
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alland
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Joined: 17 Jun 2009
Posts: 516
Location: Estonia

PostPosted: Sat Jun 15, 2019 11:27 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Chimera45 wrote:
The keys that are assigned to pads on the Kronos DO transmit midi to the Triton but only the single note rather than the full chord from the pad. If i go into Program mode (Kronos) and physically play the pads on screen, the full chord is sent to the Triton. In Combi or Seq mode, only single notes from the keybed are sent.


In my Kronos
1) Key assignment to PADs is done via "Global->Controllers/Scales->Controllers->MIDI CC# assign - Vector Joystic / Pads"
2) It _only depends_ how Global setting "Global->MIDI->MIDI->Pads MISDI Out" is set (behaves same in Program or Combi mode) -
2a) if on "Pad CC/Note" Kronos sends triggering note (not depending whether you trigger the pad on screen or with key) and
2b) if set to "Chord notes" it sends out chord notes (not depending whether you trigger the pad on screen or with the key press).
3) My software in Kronos is 3.1.2. I check with MidiOX software what my Kronos is transmitting.

If your Kronos behves differently, then I cannot explain this Smile
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Chimera45



Joined: 15 Jun 2019
Posts: 5

PostPosted: Tue Jun 18, 2019 3:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi alland,

Thanks for your reply. I didn't have notes assigned to pads in Global/MIDI/Pads. After assigning those I am getting the pad chords on the Kronos AND on the Triton. Sounds awesome! But...

When in Combi or SEQ mode (channel set to BOTH), the assigned notes are shutoff and nothing is sent to the Triton either which is confusing me! Shocked

Also, each combi has different notes assigned to pads - not in a sequential order so the note assignment in Global doesn't work for every song.

Am i going about this the wrong way or is there something I'm missing?

Thanks!

I appreciate your help and anyone else's. I'm also quite open to anyone telling me it's impossible! Cool
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alland
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Joined: 17 Jun 2009
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Location: Estonia

PostPosted: Tue Jun 18, 2019 6:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Chimera45 wrote:
When in Combi or SEQ mode (channel set to BOTH), the assigned notes are shutoff and nothing is sent to the Triton either which is confusing me!

Please explain, what do you mean by "notes are shutoff"
Chimera45 wrote:
Also, each combi has different notes assigned to pads - not in a sequential order so the note assignment in Global doesn't work for every song.

This is by design - each Program and Combi has its own Pads setting
Chimera45 wrote:
Am i going about this the wrong way or is there something I'm missing?

I am afraid that I do not understand fully what do you want to achieve, can you please explain again. If you use some factory Comis, then you may refer to particular Combi you are using to do what you want.
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Last edited by alland on Wed Jun 19, 2019 5:31 am; edited 2 times in total
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psionic311
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Joined: 14 Nov 2014
Posts: 937
Location: Orlando, Florida USA

PostPosted: Wed Jun 19, 2019 3:17 am    Post subject: Re: Kronos Pads to External Synth Reply with quote

Chimera45 wrote:
Hi Guys,

Been using a Kronos2-61 live for a couple of years now. All good, rock solid, no issues. Decided to pull an old Triton EX76 out of the attic. Still a great unit.

On the Kronos, I mostly use combis with some internal pads with chords assigned to keys. Is there a way to have those chords in their full glory sent to the Triton to layer up sounds? I'm getting the single note trigger on the Triton but not the full chord. Maybe a Karma trick or something simple i've missed?

On Global Midi tab, i have switched between Chord notes/Pad CC but no change. I have looked over the manual and browsed the stickies here first but to no avail.

Hopefully someone can shed some light to whether this is even possible.

Thanks!


I truly hope you figure this out, as I've tried and tried. I use an FCB1010 to trigger the pads on mine. Almost every combi has custom chords/ notes/ samples triggered, so that I have an extra 3rd hand. Works very well, but I wanted to also layer with my Integra.

No go. Like you, I get the single notes that trigger the pads (I'm using C-1, C#-1, D-1, etc) playing on the Integra, but not the chords assigned to the pads.

I think it has something to do with the way KARMA is set up. And I have a very strong feeling it could be solved, if only we had more knowledge or access to some of the underlying mechanics of KARMA. I would even buy the KARMA software if I could be guaranteed that there's a solution.
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Chimera45



Joined: 15 Jun 2019
Posts: 5

PostPosted: Mon Jun 24, 2019 2:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks psionic,

I'm glad I'm not the only one who can't make this work! Maybe there is a solution within Karma, I've certainly not used Karma for anything except switching timbres on and off so I'm no expert. If so, I hope Mr. Kay sees this and chimes in with any possible solution.

Thanks again for the replies. Smile
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StephenKay
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 24, 2019 7:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

In a combi, each Pad has a channel setting - on the Pads page.

Set the pad channels to the channel of the external synth.

And in Global > MIDI > Pads MIDI Out set it to "Chord Notes".
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psionic311
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Joined: 14 Nov 2014
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Location: Orlando, Florida USA

PostPosted: Mon Jun 24, 2019 8:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Chimera45 wrote:
Thanks psionic,

I'm glad I'm not the only one who can't make this work! Maybe there is a solution within Karma, I've certainly not used Karma for anything except switching timbres on and off so I'm no expert. If so, I hope Mr. Kay sees this and chimes in with any possible solution.

Thanks again for the replies. Smile


I conflated my goals with yours.

As Stephen just posted, you can do what you want by changing the setting in Global. This I already knew and could have told you how to do earlier. When I press a pad on the Kronos, it does send the chord over to the Integra.

Unfortunately my goal is step on the FCB to trigger the Kronos chords, which then should also trigger the same chords on the Integra.
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Chimera45



Joined: 15 Jun 2019
Posts: 5

PostPosted: Tue Jun 25, 2019 7:43 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi Stephen,

Thanks for reply. I've always had Pads Midi Out set to Chord notes but the chord notes aren't sent to the external synth, just the single note played from the keybed is sent. Oddly enough, if I play the pads from the screen with Chord set to PRG or OFF (Timbre Parameter>OSC>Chord), the pad chord notes ARE sent to external synth. If I then switch that to Bsc or Adv, the on-screen pads no longer play or send midi out.

This is obviously not a fault with Karma, please don't think I'm having a dig. Like psionic said, I feel the answer is so close but just out of reach. Due to Karma being a complex system, I was hoping there is maybe a workaround using Karma. I will still persist in tinkering with settings just in case i have a "eureka!" moment.

Thanks!
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HardSync
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Joined: 07 Jan 2011
Posts: 651

PostPosted: Tue Jun 25, 2019 2:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I've hesitated to chime in on this, primarily because I don't have a Kronos, but I do have an M3, which sends out the chord notes from the pads perfectly even when played from the keyboard, and in all modes (prog, combi, seq). But I have read the Kronos manuals, both the Parameter Guide and Operation Guide.... so, let me give this a go...

Quote:
Oddly enough, if I play the pads from the screen with Chord set to PRG or OFF (Timbre Parameter>OSC>Chord), the pad chord notes ARE sent to external synth. If I then switch that to Bsc or Adv, the on-screen pads no longer play or send midi out.


So the Kronos has a "Chord Mode" which is somewhat different than just playing the pads (or a key assigned to the pads). Chord Mode is for reproducing older, classic synths and how they implemented their own chord mode. It's a separate function from the just playing the pads. The Operation Guide (p.40) says:

Quote:
Chord mode lets you choose one of the chords assigned to the pads, and then play it from the keyboard. The chord is transposed according to the note that you play


Anyway, if you set the chord mode to Bsc or Adv, then I think either SW1 or SW2 or the FSW can be assigned to turn on/off chord mode. So that may be why you only get single notes. (I'm not sure, but you might have to edit individual programs to make it all work properly). But... do have a good read about Chord Mode in the Operation Guide, and then also how it applies to Combis and such in the Parameter Guide (p.471). I don't know if Chord Mode sends out MIDI for each of the notes it generates -- I'm going to assume it doesn't...

I think Chord Mode is what is throwing you off. If you aren't looking to use this classic type of Chord Mode but instead just play the pads from the keyboard, then don't enable Chord Mode in your combis and sequences -- just ignore it. Hopefully this makes sense...
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alland
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 25, 2019 6:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yes, as HardSync noted, there were two different discussions:

1) Using Chord mode and sending assigned Pad chord MIDI out
1) Using Pads in all other ways and sending MIDI out

Interestingly,

1) Using "Chord mode" that causes any note (from keyboard or MIDI in) to invoke ONE particularly assigned Pad to play the assigned chord (and transpose that PAD chord accordingf to input note) does not transmit Pad notes to MIDI out, but only internal tone generator plays chords, MIDI is transmitting played key
2) Playing Pad on touchscreen or invoking Pad (and playing that Pad 1...8 on exactly preset notes, not transposing), by assigned key (that was set on Global setting and played on local keybed or by MIDI) - then Pad is sending all assigned chord notesd, if told so by Global setting "Pads MIDI Out)

So seems to be that

1) Using Chord feature with one assigned Pad - No Chord MIDI notes possible...
2) Using general Pads feature (invoking them in several ways except Chord mode) - Chord notes out possivble if chosen so in Global settings
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