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Panning test patch

 
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DaBlick



Joined: 25 Mar 2013
Posts: 9
Location: United States

PostPosted: Wed Jun 05, 2019 12:58 am    Post subject: Panning test patch Reply with quote

I want to create a patch where SOME controller (preferably the pitch bend wheel, but possibly something else) allows me to HARD PAN a simple sound all the way to the LEFT or all the way to the right?

The reason why is that when I do a soundcheck, I want to make sure that the sound guy has correctly panned the instrument. Plus it also verifies that I have panning correctly on the line mixer I keep near the keyboard.

What's the best way to achieve this, and is it possible to use pitch bend wheel (most intuitive for me) for this?

Thanks
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Lightbringer
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 05, 2019 1:24 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think you might have posted on the wrong board. I say that because the Kronos does not have a pitch bend wheel. So you may not get an accurate answer here.
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voip
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Joined: 27 Nov 2014
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 05, 2019 7:53 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

On the Kronos it's fairly straightforward. Just select a Program, press the Timbre/Track button, press the Mixer Knobs button until the "Individual Pan" LED is lit, now control knobs 1 and 2 will pan Osc1 and Osc2 respectively. If the drum track needs to be panned, then that can be done in the drum kit itself. Some Program types, e.g. HD-1, have a Pan control on the main Play screen. Tap on the on screen Pan knob, then use the Value Slider to vary the pan position. It's best to use a single Oscillator Program, since the whole sound will be panned using one control.

.
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Rigel
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 05, 2019 8:15 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Pan control is on the amp section of each EXi.

You cannot go far with a Kronos without RTFM !...
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DaBlick



Joined: 25 Mar 2013
Posts: 9
Location: United States

PostPosted: Wed Jun 05, 2019 12:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

re: Rigel,

That "RTFM" reply seemed overly snarky and inappropriate for this kind of forum.

I would conservatively estimate that 90% of the questions in here could be resolved by the person answering the question reading the ENTIRE manual set. What would be the point of the forum?

As you know, the FM in RTFM is several thousand pages. What's more, is that IMHO the placement of the PAN control happens not to be in a very intuitive place. So it's not like it would be all that easy to find if trying to search "by reference".

I just joined this forum, but getting a snarky answer like that has me thinking that the various other forums on social media might be better resources.
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DaBlick



Joined: 25 Mar 2013
Posts: 9
Location: United States

PostPosted: Wed Jun 05, 2019 1:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

re: Rigel,

That "RTFM" reply seemed overly snarky and inappropriate for this kind of forum.

I would conservatively estimate that 90% of the questions in here could be resolved by the person answering the question reading the ENTIRE manual set. What would be the point of the forum?

As you know, the FM in RTFM is several thousand pages. What's more, is that IMHO the placement of the PAN control happens not to be in a very intuitive place. So it's not like it would be all that easy to find if trying to search "by reference".

I just joined this forum, but getting a snarky answer like that has me thinking that the various other forums on social media might be better resources.
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19naia
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Joined: 29 Nov 2012
Posts: 1172

PostPosted: Wed Jun 05, 2019 2:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

In Kronos terminology, you are looking for an alternative source for the modulation of pan.
Alternate modulation source, or AMS.

I will mention a guess at the possibility of panning solutions in FX page, but i will leave that alone since i don’t know which FX works for that and which parameters if there even is an FX that can do it.

So i go back to AMS and also there was the mention in a comment above,
about the Amp page of each program or EXi. One amp page per oscillator, so be sure to set both oscillators’ amp pages or turn one oscillator(OSC) off.
The Amp page should have a Pan setting and even better that the pan setting has an AMS option. You open the AMS edit cell and look for the best source option for you. Maybe not the exact control source you want or the exact working function you need, but you will get alternatives to knobs 1&2.
Also you have to set intensity of AMS to get results. If you have doubts about intensity settings, start at the half way setting and feel your way up or down towards the right intensity for you.

Page 1101 parameter guide excerpt, below.
~~~~~……~~~~……~~~~~
Alternate Modulation settings.
When you operate an AMS (Alternate Modulation Source), the modulation destination will be affected as shown in the table below.
By using alternate modulation, you can create complex systems of modulation in which EG, LFO, keyboard tracks, and controllers work together.
• You can apply complex change to an LFO or EG, for example by using the pitch/filter/amp EG to control the frequency or intensity of an LFO that modulates the pitch/filter/amp, or by using LFO2 to control the frequency of LFO1.
• The tone, EG, and LFO etc. can be controlled not only by velocity or joystick, but also from a switch, knob, or pedal etc.
• Panning can be controlled in realtime from a controller, EG, or LFO etc.
• You can use the filter EG to control pitch or volume at the same time that it controls the filter.
• Controllers etc. can be used to control EG levels or times. This lets you shape the EG in realtime.
• Filter/amp keyboard tracking or note number can be used to control the EG or LFO according to the keyboard pitch that is played.
• Pitch, tone, EG or LFO can be controlled by the tempo of the KARMA or sequencer.


Last edited by 19naia on Wed Jun 05, 2019 2:57 pm; edited 1 time in total
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19naia
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 05, 2019 2:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Also, tricks of AMS to get one AMS without the source you want, to tie into another AMS with the source you want and get them to work together to bridge gaps between sources and destinations or to do more complicated stuff.
AMS mixer is not part of my field of experience on Kronos but i know about it rather than how to set it up with a specific outcome being made.
Great thing about AMS is you can set all kinds of parameters to respond to one control source. Like both Oscillator amp pages being set to have pan modulated by the same control source at the same time.

Still does not guarantee you will get pitch bend to do your modulation work or even if you do find it on the Amp page Pan AMS list, it may not modulate exactly the way you want. You have to go find out for yourself since i have my Kronos packed away in storage in another country.

Page 1095 parameter guide excerpt, below.
~~~~~~~~~~…~~~~~~~~~…~~~~~~~~~
Alternate Modulation Overview.
Alternate Modulation lets you use controllers, envelopes, LFOs, etc. to modulate Program parameters. They’re called “Alternate Modulation” because they are in addition to the many dedicated modulation routings, such as Filter EG to Filter Cutoff, or LFO to Pitch.
You can use one controller to modulate multiple parameters simultaneously. You can also create complex modulation setups in which (for example) an envelope modulates the frequency of an LFO, and that LFO is then used to modulate a filter.
As shown in the diagrams below, the parameters you can control via alternate modulation will depend on the synth engine (HD-1, AL-1, CX-3 etc.). For each of these destination parameters, you can select an AMS (Alternate Modulation Source) to modulate it.
HD-1 Programs provide a total of 88 destinations for alternate modulation.
The EXi Common section provides 7 alternate modulation destinations, the AL-1 provides 92, the CX-3 provides 20, and the STR-1 provides 131 (not counting the AMS mixers). For information on other EXi, please see their individual documentation.
AMS Mixers
The AMS Mixers combine two AMS sources into one, or process an AMS source to make it into something new.
For instance, they can add two AMS sources together, or use one AMS source to scale the amount of another. You can also use them to change the shapes of LFOs and EGs in various ways, modify the response of realtime controllers, and more.
The AMS Mixer outputs appear in the list of AMS sources, just like the LFOs and EGs.
The original, unmodified inputs to the AMS Mixers are still available as well. For instance, if you use LFO 1 as an input to a AMS Mixer, you can use the processed version of the LFO to control one AMS destination, and the original version to control another.
Finally, you can cascade two or more AMS Mixers together, by one as an input to another.
For more information, see “6–1: OSC 1 AMS Mixer” on page 97, and “Using the AMS Mixers” on page 51 of the Operation Guide.
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19naia
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 05, 2019 2:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

How could i dig for potential solutions without finding something relevant in KARMA...

Karma has an Auto-Panning feature that is worth looking at. I use it but never got much into posible setting details surrounding it.
Maybe it has a way to disable the auto function and work it manually and then maybe a midi control solution to give you a choice of control sources for manually controlling the pan function.
I have no kronos with me to confirm if Karma panning is flexible like that for manual panning function, but it is worth looking into if you are into Karma and have a working knowledge of using Karma.


Last edited by 19naia on Wed Jun 05, 2019 2:56 pm; edited 1 time in total
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GregC
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Joined: 15 May 2002
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Location: Discovery Bay (San Francisco Bay Area)

PostPosted: Wed Jun 05, 2019 2:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

DaBlick wrote:
re: Rigel,

That "RTFM" reply seemed overly snarky and inappropriate for this kind of forum.

I would conservatively estimate that 90% of the questions in here could be resolved by the person answering the question reading the ENTIRE manual set. What would be the point of the forum?

As you know, the FM in RTFM is several thousand pages. What's more, is that IMHO the placement of the PAN control happens not to be in a very intuitive place. So it's not like it would be all that easy to find if trying to search "by reference".

I just joined this forum, but getting a snarky answer like that has me thinking that the various other forums on social media might be better resources.


or RTFM could also be " Refer to Friendly Manaul "

Here's a confession- after 8 yrs I might have referred to the manual maybe 20 times.

I never read the manual, start to finish. Blasphemy,right ?
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Lightbringer
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 05, 2019 5:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

So since we've established you are talking about Kronos, here's what I'd do in the situation you've described.

Go into Sequencer mode and record something short and sweet. Maybe 16 bars. Maybe even add a drum track if you want - something interesting for the people who are sitting there already to listen to. Go in and MIDI track loop the whole thing - whatever tracks you've used. Then record in some pan automation and hard pan whatever instrument (say piano) back and forth every 4 bars or so, so that it jumps from speaker to speaker.

Then for sound check just play back the looped song. You can walk out to the front of house and make sure it's doing what you want. You can even add the sequence to your set list, and if you hear you need to make any EQ adjustments for the room, you can do it all at once for all the programs/combis in your set list.
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