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Issue in merging 2 KSC files into 1
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Liviou2004
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 30, 2019 2:17 pm    Post subject: Issue in merging 2 KSC files into 1 Reply with quote

Sorry for that question which seems so basic, after using my Kronos for more than two years, I need help for that issue. I've never tempted such an operation before.

I have downloaded a M1 sound bank for Kronos. It contains 100 sounds. 100 folders containing PCG KSC files for 1 sound only.
So I want to create a unique folder with 1 PCG for the 100 sounds (no problem, it's easy to do !) and one KSC containing all the used multisamples.

In a first step, I'm trying with two sounds only. So I want to merge two KSC files in a unique one and be able to load it after.
But if I use Save All or if I use Save Sampling Data, the folder wich should contain all KMP and KSF files, contains only files for the frist sound.

I hope I am clear enough !!

So, could please indicate me how I can do that. Thanks a lot.

Edit : I must precise that, previously, I've downloaded Multisamples with "Ram" option (not KSC setting and not Virtual setting).
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Last edited by Liviou2004 on Tue Jul 02, 2019 7:22 am; edited 1 time in total
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KK
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 30, 2019 7:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi there,

Not sure I understand what you want to do, but if you only load a few programs in sample mode, it's normal a save will contain only what is currently there (in your example, two programs). Have a look at this discussion (link below) and especially the excellent examples given by Dan from Korg. Hope this helps.

http://www.korgforums.com/forum/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=93039
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Liviou2004
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 30, 2019 7:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

KK wrote:
Hi there,

Not sure I understand what you want to do, but if you only load a few programs in sample mode, it's normal a save will contain only what is currently there (in your example, two programs). Have a look at this discussion (link below) and especially the excellent examples given by Dan from Korg. Hope this helps.

http://www.korgforums.com/forum/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=93039


Oh, yes, thank you. But what he wrote is now a copy of the User Guide. I red it before but this didn't response to this issue.

In fact, I get this problem with one free bank. Anyone can find it there : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=igv43RjM_Mc You will find the link in the description. It is a Korg M1 sound bank.

If I try to create a full PCG file with the 100 sounds and there Multisamples and then try to save all, the first samples 'Universe' have been saved but not the following samples.
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KK
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 01, 2019 12:12 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi again,

Remember that with the Kronos there is the KSC and the PCG stuff.

One simple way is, while working in sampling mode, add every sample set you like. To load the first one, you select the clear all option, but for every other one you instead select append. Once all you like is there, do a save all multisamples. The KSC part is done.

Then you copy all the PCG programs where you want them in a bank. You might need to associate them again to their respective samples. If the Kronos says so with the missing samples message, simply reselect them in each program. Then, do a save all or just the program/combi you want. The PCG part is done.

Last part is to add the thing in auto-load if needed.

I've just looked briefly to the link you mention. The person who did it intentionally placed each program in a different folder - which is not the usual way. Probably he/she thought people might only want certain programs and not all, so you can just save memory this way. That's why you might wonder how come you end up with just one folder instead of many when you create your own, but again this is normal.

Finally, note that most if not all M1 original samples were also part of the Wavestation, and ALL those are already inside the Kronos. In other words, instead of losing lots of RAM loading M1 stuff, you could instead point each HD-1 oscillator to the correct sample number. I know there is a Wavestation bank set which exists that does exactly this. The difference is that instead of loading anything in RAM, you keep it for other stuff and use the internal Kronos sounds. So your M1 stuff would actually sound better and you keep the RAM for other things. Also, since some Wavestation programs need more than two oscillators, the bank set uses combis to address this. The disadvantage is that you end up with some "half-programs" which serve the WS combis. Hope this helps.
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AntonySharmman
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 01, 2019 2:55 am    Post subject: Re: Issue in merging 2 KSC files into 1 Reply with quote

Liviou2004 wrote:

But if I use Save All or if I use Save Sampling Data, the folder wich should contain all KMP and KSF files, contains only files for the frist sound.

I'll give you an example that might help you :

Let's say you have "n" sound sets in "n" folders and each one contains
-Sound n (samples folder)
-Sound n.KSC (this loads the sample from folder under the same name)
-Sound n.PCG ( It contains the multisamples in "SOUND" interface)
(n=1 up to 100)
Place all those 100 folders in a thumb drive and insert it at Kronos USB slot.

-While in Disk Mode/USB drive/Load open each folder
-Start loading the first Sound 1.KSC file of 1st folder in "clear mode"
-Then you load Sound 2.KSC from next 2nd folder but from now on in "append mode"
-You do the same for Sample 3.KSC up to Sample n.KSC and always in "append mode"
Now you have loaded all samples of 100 Multisamples
So create in your SSD a new folder , name it M1 Sounds , open it , select Save Sampling Data (sampling mode) , all samples & multisamples ,
provide the name M1 and execute.
the following files will be created :
M1 (samples folder)
M1.KSC
M1_UserBank.KSC , which is the file that you will use to load samples in Eco streaming mode and all of 100 Multisamples & samples will be loaded
when you execute loading.

Now it's time to create the PCG file:
-Select an empty Program Bank that is compatible with HD1 (else convert it via Global) , open every single Sound n.PCG of each folder / open
Sound / open Bank U_x , select the existing sound and load it at your preferred empty bank location.
-After finish all 100 Sounds loaded at your bank now you can save the PCG contents of this standalone bank ...
-While in Disk Mode/Save , open created M1 Sounds folder , select "Save PCG" , select none of opened window and then check only the Program Bank you have edited and save it under name M1.
-Done

Every time you need to load this Sound Collection , you preload/load M1_user.KSC and then load M1.PCG that will load only this specific Program Bank ...
This whole folder M1 Sounds can be saved externally and works in every Kronos.

Hope this helped you
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Last edited by AntonySharmman on Mon Jul 01, 2019 1:07 pm; edited 4 times in total
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Liviou2004
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 01, 2019 6:20 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

KK wrote:
Hi again, Remember that with the Kronos there is the KSC and the PCG stuff.
One simple way is, while working in sampling mode, add every sample set you like. To load the first one, you select the clear all option, but for every other one you instead select append. Once all you like is there, do a save all multisamples. The KSC part is done.
Then you copy all the PCG programs where you want them in a bank. You might need to associate them again to their respective samples. If the Kronos says so with the missing samples message, simply reselect them in each program. Then, do a save all or just the program/combi you want. The PCG part is done.


Thank you KK for your help but in fact, that’s all I did before but that didn't work.

KK wrote:
I've just looked briefly to the link you mention. The person who did it intentionally placed each program in a different folder - which is not the usual way. Probably he/she thought people might only want certain programs and not all, so you can just save memory this way. That's why you might wonder how come you end up with just one folder instead of many when you create your own, but again this is normal.

I forgot to mention this : If you have downloaded this bank, perhaps you’ve noticed he has provided a full bank with the 100 sounds. Of course I’ve tempted to load it but very weirdly it has completely freezed the Kronos, I had to shut it down ! I’ve never seen that before !

KK wrote:
Finally, note that most if not all M1 original samples were also part of the Wavestation, and ALL those are already inside the Kronos. In other words, instead of losing lots of RAM loading M1 stuff, you could instead point each HD-1 oscillator to the correct sample number. I know there is a Wavestation bank set which exists that does exactly this. The difference is that instead of loading anything in RAM, you keep it for other stuff and use the internal Kronos sounds. So your M1 stuff would actually sound better and you keep the RAM for other things. Also, since some Wavestation programs need more than two oscillators, the bank set uses combis to address this. The disadvantage is that you end up with some "half-programs" which serve the WS combis. Hope this helps.


Yes you're right.
But, eventually my goal is rather to understand what it's going wrong with this sound bank. When I meet a problem, I like to understand and solve it. It's a way for me to get a better knowing of the Kronos. So, later, perhaps I will be able te help someone else.
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Last edited by Liviou2004 on Mon Jul 01, 2019 6:35 am; edited 1 time in total
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 01, 2019 6:30 am    Post subject: Re: Issue in merging 2 KSC files into 1 Reply with quote

AntonySharmman wrote:
Liviou2004 wrote:

But if I use Save All or if I use Save Sampling Data, the folder wich should contain all KMP and KSF files, contains only files for the frist sound.

I'll give you an example that might help you :

Let's say you have "n" sound sets in "n" folders and each one contains
-Sound n (samples folder)
-Sound n.KSC (this loads the sample from folder under the same name)
-Sound n.PCG ( It contains the multisamples in "SOUND" interface)
(n=1 up to 100)
Place all those 100 folders in a thumb drive and insert it at Kronos USB slot.

-While in Media/USB drive/Load open each folder
-Start loading the first Sound 1.KSC file of 1st folder in "clear mode"
-Then you load Sound 2.KSC from next 2nd folder but from now on in "append mode"
-You do the same for Sample 3.KSC up to Sample n.KSC and always in "append mode"
Now you have loaded all samples of 100 Multisamples
So create in your SSD a new folder , name it M1 Sounds , open it , select Save Sampling Data (sampling mode) , all samples & multisamples ,
provide the name M1 and execute.
the following files will be created :
M1 (samples folder)
M1.KSC
M1_user.KSC , which is the file that you will use to load samples in Eco streaming mode and all of 100 Multisamples & samples will be loaded
when you execute loading.

Now it's time to create the PCG file:
-Select an empty Program Bank that is compatible with HD1 (else convert it via Global) , open every single Sound n.PCG of each folder / open
Sound / open Bank U_x , select the existing sound and load it at your preferred empty bank location.
-After finish all 100 Sounds loaded at your bank now you can save the PCG contents of this standalone bank ...
-While in Media/Save , select "Save PCG" , select none of opened window and then check only the Program Bank you have edited and save it under name M1.
-Done

Every time you need to load this Sound Collection , you preload/load M1_user.KSC and then load M1.PCG that will load only this specific Program Bank ...
This whole folder M1 Sounds can be saved externally and works in every Kronos.

Hope this helped you


Thank you very much for this very detailed and precise procedure. I tried it rapidly this morning, but it didn't work.
I followed step by step (just one point : I didn't find "Save Sampling Data" in Sampling Mode but in Disk Mode) ; and after all, and loading M1.PCG + KSC : no sample was loaded ! In fact, M1.KSC file was empty !

Perhaps, I you get some minutes, you could try with the bank I've mentionned, because I wonder if maybe there is not a bug in it ? As I told before to KK, if I want to load the full bank, the Kronos freezes.
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AntonySharmman
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 01, 2019 10:21 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm on vacation so I speak by memory , so yes saving sampling data is in Disk Mode and any reference in Media is Disk mode.
Method is guarantee working fine but you must have working resources so the cause is those amateur resources !
According to one file that I have downloaded "Universe" , the right KSC there is Universe MS.KSC , I already wrote that samples
folder & KSC file must be under the same name , so always load the KSC that has the same name with samples folder , I suppose
all resources have the same issue there so do as described !

My description has a general purpose to learn the merging procedure in many different custom samples loading , all found issues
are caused by poor sampling management of that author , so if you definitely need those resources , use this service to do the job
for you www.wavesart.eu/Hire
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 01, 2019 11:51 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I devoted some time just from curiosity , I downloaded the 4 first sounds and master KSC of whole file that is completely wrong
concerning direct loading scripting !
If you want to explore it do the following :
- Open in your PC/Mac Korg M1 (00-99).KSC via text editor , select all and delete contents and copy & paste the following script there :
Quote:

#KORG Script Version 1.0
#v2
00 Universe\00 Universe MS\00_UN000.KMP
00 Universe\00 Universe MS\00_UN001.KMP
01 Piano 16'\01 Piano 16' MS\01_PI000.KMP
01 Piano 16'\01 Piano 16' MS\01_PI001.KMP
01 Piano 16'\01 Piano 16' MS\01_PI002.KMP
01 Piano 16'\01 Piano 16' MS\01_PI003.KMP
02 Brass Vel\02 Brass Vel MS\02_BR000.KMP
02 Brass Vel\02 Brass Vel MS\02_BR001.KMP
03 Ooh_Ahh\03 Ooh_Ahh MS\03_OO000.KMP
03 Ooh_Ahh\03 Ooh_Ahh MS\03_OO001.KMP


Then save it as "Loading Example.KSC" in the same folder and copy the whole folder Korg M1 in your USB drive and insert it at Kronos USB port.
Loading "Loading Example.KSC" you will load the first all 4 Sounds in your Kronos.

If you have the patience , edit similar script for the other 96 Sounds and all will be loaded fine , else follow my described method in order to load & merge all Sounds.

Good luck
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Liviou2004
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 01, 2019 12:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

AntonySharmman wrote:
I devoted some time just from curiosity , I downloaded the 4 first sounds and master KSC of whole file that is completely wrong
concerning direct loading scripting !
If you want to explore it do the following :
- Open in your PC/Mac Korg M1 (00-99).KSC via text editor , select all and delete contents and copy & paste the following script there :
Quote:

#KORG Script Version 1.0
#v2
00 Universe\00 Universe MS\00_UN000.KMP
00 Universe\00 Universe MS\00_UN001.KMP
01 Piano 16'\01 Piano 16' MS\01_PI000.KMP
01 Piano 16'\01 Piano 16' MS\01_PI001.KMP
01 Piano 16'\01 Piano 16' MS\01_PI002.KMP
01 Piano 16'\01 Piano 16' MS\01_PI003.KMP
02 Brass Vel\02 Brass Vel MS\02_BR000.KMP
02 Brass Vel\02 Brass Vel MS\02_BR001.KMP
03 Ooh_Ahh\03 Ooh_Ahh MS\03_OO000.KMP
03 Ooh_Ahh\03 Ooh_Ahh MS\03_OO001.KMP


Then save it as "Loading Example.KSC" in the same folder and copy the whole folder Korg M1 in your USB drive and insert it at Kronos USB port.
Loading "Loading Example.KSC" you will load the first all 4 Sounds in your Kronos.

If you have the patience , edit similar script for the other 96 Sounds and all will be loaded fine , else follow my described method in order to load & merge all Sounds.

Good luck


What a great job you did ! Thank you very much.
A very good thing to learn the functionning of these files.
I've tried your merging method with one of my third party sounds bank (Bolder) and all worked perfectly.
So you are confirming what I thought : this M1 sound bank is corrupted. I will try to correct it, following your advice.

Thanks again.
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AntonySharmman
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 01, 2019 12:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Liviou2004 wrote:

So you are confirming what I thought : this M1 sound bank is corrupted. I will try to correct it, following your advice.

Actually file is not corrupted , script shows bad sampling management , author used wrong function in saving sampling data with references.
But except that there are a lot of mistakes in samples , many of them are not stereo paired and samples layout and looping are amateurism !
That's what you pay when ordering a Pro Synth samples library !
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ronnfigg
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 01, 2019 5:14 pm    Post subject: Re: Issue in merging 2 KSC files into 1 Reply with quote

Liviou2004 wrote:
AntonySharmman wrote:
Liviou2004 wrote:

But if I use Save All or if I use Save Sampling Data, the folder wich should contain all KMP and KSF files, contains only files for the frist sound.

I'll give you an example that might help you :

Let's say you have "n" sound sets in "n" folders and each one contains
-Sound n (samples folder)
-Sound n.KSC (this loads the sample from folder under the same name)
-Sound n.PCG ( It contains the multisamples in "SOUND" interface)
(n=1 up to 100)
Place all those 100 folders in a thumb drive and insert it at Kronos USB slot.

-While in Media/USB drive/Load open each folder
-Start loading the first Sound 1.KSC file of 1st folder in "clear mode"
-Then you load Sound 2.KSC from next 2nd folder but from now on in "append mode"
-You do the same for Sample 3.KSC up to Sample n.KSC and always in "append mode"
Now you have loaded all samples of 100 Multisamples
So create in your SSD a new folder , name it M1 Sounds , open it , select Save Sampling Data (sampling mode) , all samples & multisamples ,
provide the name M1 and execute.
the following files will be created :
M1 (samples folder)
M1.KSC
M1_user.KSC , which is the file that you will use to load samples in Eco streaming mode and all of 100 Multisamples & samples will be loaded
when you execute loading.

Now it's time to create the PCG file:
-Select an empty Program Bank that is compatible with HD1 (else convert it via Global) , open every single Sound n.PCG of each folder / open
Sound / open Bank U_x , select the existing sound and load it at your preferred empty bank location.
-After finish all 100 Sounds loaded at your bank now you can save the PCG contents of this standalone bank ...
-While in Media/Save , select "Save PCG" , select none of opened window and then check only the Program Bank you have edited and save it under name M1.
-Done

Every time you need to load this Sound Collection , you preload/load M1_user.KSC and then load M1.PCG that will load only this specific Program Bank ...
This whole folder M1 Sounds can be saved externally and works in every Kronos.

Hope this helped you


Thank you very much for this very detailed and precise procedure. I tried it rapidly this morning, but it didn't work.
I followed step by step (just one point : I didn't find "Save Sampling Data" in Sampling Mode but in Disk Mode) ; and after all, and loading M1.PCG + KSC : no sample was loaded ! In fact, M1.KSC file was empty !

Perhaps, I you get some minutes, you could try with the bank I've mentionned, because I wonder if maybe there is not a bug in it ? As I told before to KK, if I want to load the full bank, the Kronos freezes.


"Saving" anything is ALWAYS done in "Disk Mode".
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 01, 2019 8:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

AntonySharmman wrote:
That's what you pay when ordering a Pro Synth samples library !


Actually, this is the first time I meet this kind of problem with a free sounds bank.
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 01, 2019 10:20 pm    Post subject: Re: Issue in merging 2 KSC files into 1 Reply with quote

Liviou2004 wrote:
Sorry for that question which seems so basic, after using my Kronos for more than two years, I need help for that issue. I've never tempted such an operation before.

I have downloaded a M1 sound bank for Kronos. It contains 100 sounds. 100 folders containing PRG KSC files for 1 sound only.
So I want to create a unique folder with 1 PRG for the 100 sounds (no problem, it's easy to do !) and one KSC containing all the used multisamples.

In a first step, I'm trying with two sounds only. So I want to merge two KSC files in a unique one and be able to load it after.
But if I use Save All or if I use Save Sampling Data, the folder wich should contain all KMP and KSF files, contains only files for the frist sound.

I hope I am clear enough !!

So, could please indicate me how I can do that. Thanks a lot.

Edit : I must precise that, previously, I've downloaded Multisamples with "Ram" option (not KSC setting and not Virtual setting).

What do you mean by "PRG" files. I believe you mean PCG files?
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 01, 2019 10:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Maybe this will help...

http://thekronosblog.blogspot.com/2013/01/loading-userbank-ksc-and-pcg-files.html?m=1
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