Korg Forums

[gwc uk]

1.Is there a video or article I can view to learn about PA700 & PA1000 Limiters ?.

2.In Global is there more than one USER SAVE for Global tones controls.
Ideally at least 2 so a quick setup dependent on speakers used.

Reply appreciated.

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PA1000 + NP30 Twinset

[Biggles]

See the responce from MusicwithHarry in this thread

http://www.korgforums.com/forum/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=119079
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Biggles
Lancashire, UK

[Musicwithharry]

I will post my response here in this topic as well that I posted yesterday in another topic. It applies here as well...

The Limiter in the PA700 is pretty useful. I use it on almost everything but have different settings based on what mode I am in on the PA700. I mostly use it to protect the internal speakers, since I do not always bring a PA system to the homes I play at.

For regular playing at the nursing homes, using the styles in the unit (like anything big band, etc..), I have a setting for that. I have found that some of the acoustic bass sounds tend to push the speakers a bit more than other bass sounds, especially in the key of 'G' where the acoustic bass produces a bass sound on the G2 note...that particular chord/bass note combination seems to flex the speakers a bit more physically than any other combination of chords or sounds on the PA700 for me.

I use the Limiter to minimize this because the Limiter is basically 'squashing' the signal at a certain threshold (or reducing) so that these peaks on that chord are minimized.

The only problem is that when the overall output reaches that threshold, it squashes everything, not just the bass note. While it is not a problem for me, it is certainly something to think about when setting up the Limiter settings.

A Limiter and Compressor kind of do the same thing, but they go about it a little differently.

When I am in sequencer mode, I have another setting enabled so that more sound comes through the speakers without as much Limiting going on. I have found that when I use my Limiter settings designed for the Style Play in Sequencer mode, it sounds REALLY compressed (or limited) and it almost sounds unnatural. Think of compression/limiting used in radio stations versus listening to the actual CD containing the song that you are listening to on the radio; there is a marked difference.

When I am using the PA700 with an external PA and not using the volume settings/internal speakers above for monitor use (because I have external monitors or IEM's instead of using the internal speakers), I usually turn the Limiter off. This allows for the full range of sound from the PA700 to go to the PA system - unhindered.

In the manual, specifically starting on Page 488, it talks about the Master EQ/Limiter settings.

Basically:

The In/Out indicators are telling you what the signal looks like as it goes into the Limiter and as it comes out of the Limiter. If you are indeed limiting, then oftentimes (not using the Gain Adjust at all) the output signal will appear to be lower - this is because the Limiter is 'limiting' - like it is supposed to.

The Ratio is the amount of 'limiting' that you are doing. Increase the ratio, and the amount of limiting is increased. Limiting at 1:1 is not going to produce anything, because there is nothing being limited at a 1:1 ratio.

The Threshold is the setting that the limiting would take place. If you set the threshold at -10db, then any signal that tries to go above that will be limited. Anything under that threshold would not be affected.

The Attack is the speed of which the Limiter activates. If the Attack is set with a lower number, then the Limiter will activate more quickly. If the number is set higher, then it will activate more slowly.

The Release is the speed in which the Limiter will release the signal. The lower the number, the faster the Release would happen.

The Gain Adjust is basically like a 'make up' gain because limiting the signal will often reduce the output volume. This allows you to make the volume louder after it has been limited. What you are doing is turning up the 'Limited' volume so that it is louder, even though the 'limiting' has been in place. This Gain Adjust setting is similar to the output knob on a compressor.

My recommendation is to play with the settings and find one that works the best for you. I basically use the Limiter to protect the internal speakers.

Grace,
Harry
_________________
Alesis Vortex Keytar, Alesis QS6.2, Alesis QSR, Alesis SR-16, Behringer Deepmind-12, Ensoniq Avista 7600, Ensoniq VFX, Ensoniq VFX-SD, Ensoniq SQ1+, (2) Ensoniq SQ-R+/32, Korg i3 (2020 Version), (2) Korg Kross 1-61, (2) Korg Kross 1-88, Korg Minilogue XD, Korg Minilogue XD Module, Korg M50-61, Korg PA700, Korg X5DR, Korg Z3, Kurzweil SP1, Lowrey EZP3 (bascially a Kawai), Roland D-05, Roland E-09, Waldorf Streichfett, Yamaha Reface CP, Yamaha Reface CS, Yamaha Reface DX, Yamaha Reface YC

[gwc uk]

Biggles. What about my Global question ?.

There appears to be a lack of sharing Global EQ Tone setting 700/1000 out of the box to give the board sparkle and life.

Understandingly it's all subjective to one requirements but is it a Korg owners secrete ?.
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PA1000 + NP30 Twinset

[Biggles]

Unfortunately images cannot be uploaded on this forum they have to be on a publicly accessible website.

I will email you mine that you can use as the basis for your 1000.
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Biggles
Lancashire, UK

[Musicwithharry]

The PA700/PA1000 have multiple EQ/Limiter settings that you can choose from. When you are in the EQ/Limiter page, you can hit the drop down arrow and select different EQ/Limiter curves. You can experiment with the different curves that way.

If you do not like what is already there, you can create your own and save them in place of what is there already. The most recent update may also allow for additional User slots to save your own (if memory serves, they did this for MIDI setting, but may have also done this for the EQ/Limiter as well), so you do not overwrite what Korg has pre-programmed for you already.

EVERYTHING on the PA700/PA1000 can be edited and that is one of the great things about Korg products...

I have commented about the 'sparkle/brightness' of the PA700 before and recommended that to really make the instrument come alive, you may need to adjust the EQ settings to be a bit brighter and have a bit more Reverb on the tracks.

I noticed this right out of the box when I first opened my PA700. It sounded dull and somewhat lifeless. What did I do? I created a new EQ setting to make it come alive with a bump in the high end. This is subjective, of course, and this is why I recommend playing with the settings until it suits YOUR tastes

I also noticed that the pianos sounded very dead to me. This is why I started adding Reverb to everything. It really gave depth to the keyboard when I did this. The nice thing about Reverb is that when you have an ensemble playing (within the keyboard), the extra Reverb on a particular sound gets washed away a bit and is not as noticeable versus playing a solo instrument in SOUND mode. Another thing to keep in mind is that the Reverb is cumulative. If you start liberally adding it to everything, your sound can get muddy. There is a fine line and one that you can experiment with, again, to suit your taste.

I recommend multiple Global EQ and Limiter settings because you are likely to use the PA700 in multiple performance settings. Sometimes, you may be live with a band, other times you may be solo. Other times, you may be at home, other times you may be playing it through a PA system.

Setting up the PA700, in my opinion, can be like a sound engineer setting up a PA system at a venue. They usually check the room and tailor the PA system EQ/settings, based on the room/venue they are going to run sound for. I look at the PA700 in the same manner. If I play the PA700 at a venue where I bring the subwoofer, then I do not use the modified EQ settings that offer more bass. If I use my full-range speakers and don't bring the subwoofer, then I use a modified EQ setting that increases the bass output so that the full-range speakers sound a bit more full.

If I use the PA700 at lower volumes with the internal speakers (smaller rooms), then I have an EQ preset I made that amplifies the bass frequencies a bit to make the Korg sound more full.

Another thing to keep in mind is that the Korg PA700/PA1000 have bass ports on the back of the unit. They REALLY do make a difference in the sound of the unit and the people in front of you (facing the back of the keyboard like in a live performance setting) hear the bass, maybe more than we do sitting in front of the kebed and playing. Adding too much bass so it sounds good to you may somewhat be overpowering to those who are in your audience. Since I do about 4 performances each day, I know that the sound of the PA700, at least to the audience, can be somewhat muffled because the internal speakers are up-facing, instead of audience-facing. Bumping the high-mid and high frequencies in the EQ will help with this a bit. It may sound a bit unnatural to you, sitting in direct ear-contact with the speakers, but it helps the audience hear things a bit better.

Additionally, keep in mind that the EQ and the Limiter can go hand-in-hand. The more sound doctoring you do in the EQ will affect what the Limiter is doing. The more bass you increase in the EQ, the more the Limiter may work (depending on your Limiter settings). You can somewhat defeat the purpose of your EQ settings with having the Limiter set to certain settings that are designed to limit the output (like my use of the Limiter in protecting the speakers themselves). Again, there is a fine line between working them together for good reproduction of the sound and getting muddy.

Grace,
Harry
_________________
Alesis Vortex Keytar, Alesis QS6.2, Alesis QSR, Alesis SR-16, Behringer Deepmind-12, Ensoniq Avista 7600, Ensoniq VFX, Ensoniq VFX-SD, Ensoniq SQ1+, (2) Ensoniq SQ-R+/32, Korg i3 (2020 Version), (2) Korg Kross 1-61, (2) Korg Kross 1-88, Korg Minilogue XD, Korg Minilogue XD Module, Korg M50-61, Korg PA700, Korg X5DR, Korg Z3, Kurzweil SP1, Lowrey EZP3 (bascially a Kawai), Roland D-05, Roland E-09, Waldorf Streichfett, Yamaha Reface CP, Yamaha Reface CS, Yamaha Reface DX, Yamaha Reface YC

[gwc uk]

Musicwithharry. That's a good article about sound adjustment and I fully agree with your comments.
Most of my working life was in Audio-Sound and early days I supplied microphones to BBC & ITV and Private recording studios.
Being away from home 2-3 nights every week I looked forward to spending all my evening in studio's. Happy Days.
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PA1000 + NP30 Twinset

[Musicwithharry]

Thank you for the kind words I remember you telling me about your BBC days and I would love to hear more stories of then as well

I am sort of an old school recording guy, myself. I am 49 now, but have been in recording for many years. I graduated from the Audio Institute of America with honors back in 1998. I had already released over 150 different studio recordings for other people and 4 of my own albums by that time - I went to school to get the piece of paper since my studio was really getting a lot of business and I wanted to make sure I had something on the wall when a client walked in.

I remember the days of splicing tape to put different 'takes' together and even did some of that in the early days. I am very glad that we are not doing that anymore, but the experience allows me to operate more fluently in my own studio. I do mostly project and MIDI recording now, but still open things up for the 'standard' acoustic recording.

I have found the PA700 to be one of the most versatile instruments I have ever had. I got my first synth, a Korg Poly-800, back in the mid-80's and never looked back. It was neat to be able mix my acoustic piano sounds with synth sounds. Another piece of gear that I had was an old analog Radio Shack preset drum machine. That was a wild piece that I wish that I still had I also still, somewhere, have an old PAIA Synthe-Spin unit. It still works

Grace,
Harry
_________________
Alesis Vortex Keytar, Alesis QS6.2, Alesis QSR, Alesis SR-16, Behringer Deepmind-12, Ensoniq Avista 7600, Ensoniq VFX, Ensoniq VFX-SD, Ensoniq SQ1+, (2) Ensoniq SQ-R+/32, Korg i3 (2020 Version), (2) Korg Kross 1-61, (2) Korg Kross 1-88, Korg Minilogue XD, Korg Minilogue XD Module, Korg M50-61, Korg PA700, Korg X5DR, Korg Z3, Kurzweil SP1, Lowrey EZP3 (bascially a Kawai), Roland D-05, Roland E-09, Waldorf Streichfett, Yamaha Reface CP, Yamaha Reface CS, Yamaha Reface DX, Yamaha Reface YC

[gwc uk]

Apologize for taking over the Limiters Article.

Right from school days I have been interested in sound recording, built a dummy head for surround sound recording which produce naturally excellent results.
I was fortunate to help a sound engineer providing the PA every Saturday night Jazz Club, Acker Bilk, Kenny Ball, George Chisholm, Chris Barber & many more.
At that time I had high speed Revox & Calrec Condenser Microphones so managed to record every Saturday Jazz Bands and they were happy knowing we kept them private.
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PA1000 + NP30 Twinset

[Biggles]

[gwc uk]

Biggles. No, in my case when I retired I sold everything recording related and took up keyboards.
Today's Gear is much better being Digital.

I'm amazed how as we move through life we are offered paths to take a certain direction....Possibly fate plays a part.
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PA1000 + NP30 Twinset

[Musicwithharry]

[Randelph]

Harry, it sounds like we had some similar experience with older, tape-based gear. I did a s**t ton of editing of 1/4" 2 track reel-to-reel, and had an ADAT setup as well. 32 tracks of ADAT- 4 ADAT machines and 4 S-VHS tapes at once- wow!!! But those were the tools in the 90's. I also have many many DAT tapes. I also began to use a PCI card in my Mac. I was very glad to see digital come onto the scene!
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Keyboards: Kawai ES920 / Casio CT-X5000
Instruments: Keys / Alto Recorder and Melodica

[Musicwithharry]

[Biggles]