Korg Forums

[Scott]

Here's my understanding, kind of summarizing the above:

Keeping in mind that MIDI files do not include sounds, or effects, or even effects settings, the ability to hear effects on different components of the sound depends on the sounds in the board... and it will be up to you to determine what sounds get what effects, within the restrictions of the total effects available.

The PA700 specs say:
Accompaniment/Song: 2 insert effects; 2 master effects (148 types)
Keyboard Sounds: 1 insert effect; 2 master effects (148 types)

A MIDI sequence would fall into the "accompaniment/song" category. So you have two master effects available to all 16 channels, in varying amounts (i.e. the reverb and chorus in your example); and you could also pick two of the 16 channels to have their own, unique insert effects (like your guitar distortion). But none of this is automatic, you'll have to set it up in your Song.

Then separately, if you're playing along with your sequence, you still have the additional insert effect and two master effects available to you for whatever it is you're playing live.

I think that's right.

[Musicwithharry]

[paulus1971]

Thank you all for your kindness and help

Especially to Grace and Harry who took all the effort to answer and give me very helpful information

I am aware that midi files don't have sound....because i am fortunate enough to use midi files for many different keyboards for my be more than 25 years



I used to do regular gigs with live band backed by my midi files as well....besides playing at church....but then few years ago i suffered from arthritic...was not able to play music for few years....now i've been healed....and started to play music again but this time i only play at church, no more gigging at clubs, etc.

Harry, you are right, from your youtube links the one with 16 keyboards sounds better.....and your music is really good, also the mixing....my son likes them!

So, i think i should keep my Integra 7 and use it with Pa700....before i thought if Pa700 sound quality is close enough to Integra 7, i will sell my Integra 7.

By the way, what do you think about Korg Pa700 sounds compare to Integra 7? Roland Integra 7 weak points are in : Saxophones and Accoustic Guitar. Does Pa700 have good saxophones that i can use for solo? I've been searching on youtube, i could only get very few and short clips with saxophone sounds.

Also Harry, i already sent you my email address, sorry i replied late to your pm....

Thank you all

[Musicwithharry]

[paulus1971]

[paulus1971]

oh sorry, i did not know the content of your message, i don't use forum much, so i am really a newbiew when it comes to use forum like this

I've listened to your 6 mp3s. They sound great! I love them personally. You are right the lead guitar sound you created is very very good!

But honestly, what makes me interested in buying Pa700 is because the people at my church (which happens to be in a village) like more "aged or ancient" kind of sound character (not traditional instruments, but sound character (which is of course is related to sound quality ) from Pa700. And i think the sound character that you use in your music is more "modern" than what they like. I am so sorry to say this...i do not know how to explain this with the right words....

I will give you an example of the sound character of Pa700 that i need from these youtube demo videos :

1. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZnLpaDyF_vU
The sound character of Pa700 in that video that my church needs is like in :
15:08 - Finish (15 minutes and 8 seconds)
06:42 - 07:01
2. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=64vxPc68WuY
They really love the sound character in this song. I don't know whether he
is using the built in style or his own style
3. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BTW34IgZ2dw
This is i think korg factory demo sound/style. For upbeat song, they love
this kind of sound character

Do you think, in reality, your Pa700 can produce the same sound character and quality as good as those videos? Because, in my experience, many demos made by keyboard factories (Korg, Yamaha, Roland, etc) are not the same as what we can get from our keyboards straight out of the boxes. I think they "polish" their demos so that the demo sound really good. I really hope in reality Pa700 can produce the same sound character and quality as good as those videos. Again, i am really sorry, i am not saying that the sound quality of your music is not good...They are really great! But people at my church love the sound character of Pa700 like those videos on youtube. Just to give you a picture, they do not even want me to use distortion guitar sound, they do not like it even though i personally loves it!

And if your Pa700 can produce the same sound character and quality just like the videos, do you think, if i record those songs/styles in Sequencer Mode, then i play those songs/styles in Sequencer Mode, not in Style Play Mode, the result will be the same? Sorry if i asked you this question again. Because, that's how i am going to use Pa700 for. This is what i will do with Pa700 :
1. I will play the Pa700 in Style Mode and Record it
2. Then i will save the result as midi file.
3. After that i will play the midi file in Sequencer Mode, add some of my own
playing, save the result in midi file.
4. At church, i will use Roland integra 7 to play live and use the midi file
backing track i just created in vArranger2 software. So, i need to make
sure that the midi file backing track i play sounds really good.

May be my question makes me sound like i thought midi file contains data. No, i really understand midi file does not contain any sound data. And that is actually the problem. Because, just like what i wrote in my first post, the experience with PSR-s950 made me really disappointed. Because, whenever my friend recorded his life playing in Style Mode and save it as midi file, then he played the result in Sequencer Mode while also playing live using PSR-s950, the midi file backing track result being played in Sequencer Mode is always inferior compare to when he played in Style Mode.

Using Integra 7 to play Pa700 Style won't be able to achieve the sound quality of using Pa700 internal sounds. Because, some styles that use instrument like guitars and other DNC sounds will not play correctly in Integra 7. Because Korg use their own proprietary algorithm to make those DNC instruments sound real. So, whenever i tried to use my Integra 7 as a sound module to play Korg Style (my vArranger2 has lots of Korg Style, Tyros, etc), the styles will sound "funny". Because the midi files or style files Korg Use has a lot of "additional" notes that when played using external keyboard/module will just sound "wrong".

I wish midi file is like audio file, so once recorded, the sound quality will always be the same like the original, never changes.

And in my case, i can't use audio file (like wav, mp3, etc) while playing life at my church. Because if i use audio file, it will be very unflexible.

I forgot to explain. The midi file i record in Style Mode, will be played in my laptop using vArranger2 software. Because with this software, i only need to insert Markers in midi files (like Intro, Verse 1, Verse 2, Verse 3, Break, Chorus 1, Chorus 2, etc), then i will be able to use the midi files very flexibly. I can play along with the midi file and use my both hands to play anything, no need to worry about playing chord progression, because chord progression and everything else are already recorded inside the midi file. And the vArranger2 software makes me possible to go to any part of the midi file just like when i use arranger keyboard. But the different is with this software i can use my own midi file with all recorded chord progression, solos, etc....as flexible as when i use arranger keyboard.

When i use midi file in vArrangers, i will be able to do solo with my left hand always on the joystick/wheels/assignable buttons to add realism to my solo.

This is what i usually do.

I hope my explanation is not too boring and too long.

And again, thank you so much Harry and Grace to always help me answer my questions.

[paulus1971]

Listen how great his saxophone sample for his Korg Pa700.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vInK1m54MHQ

Unfortunately i can't find "purchase" link

[Musicwithharry]

I listened to the links and yes, the PA700 can do those styles. I use some of the styles in the nursing home ministry that I have. I primarily play Big Band, Waltzes, Country, and other styles that the older generation likes. It is very realistic and everything sits well within a mix.

One main thing that I have always posted about was that the PA700 sounded a bit thin compared to the already 'doctored' sounds of the competition from other brands. It seems as though the other brands inflate the sound of the keyboards in their demos and that can be hard to emulate in normal use. I understand the idea of making the keyboard sound its best during a demo, but being able to recreate the sounds in the board in regular use is more important.

This is why I sent you the demo examples that I did. Especially true with the Terminal Frost MP3 link, it shows how dynamic the PA700 can be. That was a MIDI file with the EFX settings that I felt helped to capture the sound of the original song.

The Doxology one I sent was to show how the sequencer worked when using a style and recording that style live into the sequencer and playing over the top of it.

The Korg keyboards have always had good 'groove' styles in them.

With my comment about the PA700 being a bit thin, I found that adding Reverb to most things fills the sound out a bit. Maybe the thinness comes from the more organic quality of the sounds that Korg uses. Their pianos, in my opinion, never have enough Reverb. That is why I add extra.

Being able to customize the PA700 is one of the reasons I bought it. You can truly make it your own and it will do what you want it to do.

Korg also has a pretty large base for adding new styles. Some of the styles I use for worship songs on Sunday morning are actually from the PA1000. They are compatible with the PA700 (and PA4X). I am not worried about loading in the entire set (which would include sounds too), but rather the styles and then I change the sounds for each style element if I need to.

I think that the PA700 would work for you.

Grace,
Harry
_________________
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[paulus1971]

Thank you again Harry and Grace,

Actually i was very surprised when you said "Pa700" is a bit thin?

Because, to me, from the demo videos, it sounds very thick, especially on the 3 youtube links i posted before. In some other videos, when Rock styles are demonstrated, Pa700 can sound a bit thin, but in other Rock styles Pa700 can sound very thick.

Would you please tell me, compare to the 3 youtube videos i posted, can Pa700 make the same sound character and quality? Not just the same style, but also the thickness and the fullness of the sounds.

I once used Yamaha MOXF, i like the balance of the sounds, but it sounds too thin to me, so i decided to sell and bought my Integra 7 instead.

Cause i really do not like keyboard with a thin sound. That's like the midi backing track my friend played using PSR-S950. The sound is really thin.

To me, seriously, the 3 youtube video links i posted sound thick/full. So when you said Pa700 sound is a bit thin, i am really really surprised. Does it mean that the demo youtube videos have been edited to sound much thicker?

Again, Harry and Grace, sorry for keep disturbing you, and thank you for your patience and help answering my question.

[Biggles]

It has been very interesting following this thread without commenting.

Interesting comments about the sound of a Yamaha PSR S970 which is not or rather was not the PA700’s competitor but a competitor to the PA1000.

The PA 700 competitor is now the Yamaha PSR S775.

That said imho neither Yamaha keyboard sounds anywhere near as good as the Korg, I have played all four back to back which if you can arrange then I suggest you try to do so.

In all videos that you may watch there can very well be limitations in the sound head due to the video encoding and limited bandwidth. There again all Korgs come with a fairly flat setup and customising the systems with Fx and Eq settings make a dramatic difference in the audio quality and punch.

Additionally further sounds including the classic Triton sounds can be inported into the PA.

A PA can play a MIDI file but since it will make a guess at what instrument sound said MIDI will choose some tweaking may well be required to change the chosen sound to one that may be more appropriate. The PA can also import a MIDI file and convert it into a Style which may well be a useful function for you.
_________________
Biggles
Lancashire, UK

[paulus1971]

Hi Biggles, I really wish i could try Pa700 myself, but really i can't find a shop displaying it for demo. Only if i say that i will buy it, that the shop might open the unit i will buy for me to try.
In these last 6 years, i've bought Yamaha P115, Roland FA, Korg Krome, Korg Pa600, Roland Integra 7, Yamaha MOXF, without ever trying any of them. All i did was watching youtube videos. So, many times i've made mistake buying keyboards that at the end did not satisfy me. You are really lucky Biggles.

Thank you for the info about other Pa700 features. But what i mainly will use it for is as a sound module to play midi files.

[paulus1971]

Harry and Grace,

I compared again your music. Actually the guitar sound in Amazing Grace is quite thick, not thin i think, because i compare it to my Integra 7, the thickness is very similar.

But in your 6 mp3 songs you sent me, Pa700 sounds thinner. Is it because when you recorded Amazing Grace you only use 2 sounds, without style, and when you recorded the other 6 mp3 songs you sent me, you played along with styles?

May be the problem with the "thin" sound quality is the same as the problem with S950. I'm not saying that S950's sounds are as thick as Korgs, i myself know that korg is very famous of its thick/fat sound signature. What i'm trying to say is....when my friend recorded his playing with styles, the result will always sound thin, not as thick as when he played solo using 1 sound only.

I think that's the reason why Genos uses 8 insert efx for its accompaniment, and also i saw from youtube, the PSR-SX900 will also come with 8 insert efx for its accompaniment. But ofcourse, SX900 will be more than USD$2100, much more expensive than Pa700.

I first used Korg M1, the legend, in 1989, then i've ever owned Triton, and used it a lot for my gigs coupled with my Roland XP30. And all my Korgs always had "thick" sound signature. So, your information about Pa700 sound is a bit thin really surprised me. Because i remember my Pa600 sound is quite thick. The only thing is, when i still had my Pa600, i never tried to use it as sound module.

Your Terminal Frost sounds very very good, almost the same as the original. Only the choir sounds a bit different, and also just a very little detail of the solo sax sounds a bit different. Your lead guitar sounds very similar to the original. Sorry, i did not know before that you tried to make a recording as similar as possible to the original. Because, honestly, i did not know the song before.

When recording your 6 mp3 songs, did you played along with styles? Or you sequenced the midi with other keyboard, then you just played back the midi using Pa700?

Don't you think the thickness of Pa700 is really dependent on what sounds the style uses, or is it really true it's solo sound thicker than it's style sound?

Thank you again Harry and Grace, and so sorry to keep bothering you with lots of question

[Biggles]

Forgot to add in my prior message that I have jammed regularly with a group of keyboard players one of whom has a PA600.

Even without enhancing Fx or Eq my 700 sounds richer and fuller than the 600 even when I am not using Fx or Eq.
_________________
Biggles
Lancashire, UK

[Musicwithharry]

paulus1971 - What I meant by 'thin' is that out of the box, the PA700 is not artificially inflated by effects and other things that make it sound bigger than it is. If is rather dry and dull, because they are letting the true sounds in the keyboard instead of inflating them with overdone effects and other things. This is not a bad thing.

An example would be with a real violin. Listen to it in a small room and the nature of the violin does sound a bit thin. Sure, the sound is pure because it is just the violin itself, but the sound is a bit thin.

Take that same violin and play it in a concert hall with lots of reverberation and such, and it sounds much bigger than when it was played in that small room. It almost sounds like a different instrument.

The same, in my experience, is true with that PA700. It is much more organic 'out of the box' than the offerings by other companies. Since I like a bigger sound, I add Reverb and EQ to make it bigger (as Biggles eluded to in his post about adding EQ and FX).

What this means is that my initial review of the unit, once I got it out of the box, was that it was a bit thin compared to the other brands' offerings. Korg was not inflating the sound of the board. Once I added some EFX and EQ settings that were to my liking, the board opened up and sounded better than anything else in its price range, even some that are higher priced. It is neat that a board that runs for $1299 USD can seriously compete with other brands' offerings that cost more money.

With regard to Terminal Frost, the choir sound is a bit different because instead of using the 'standard' choir sound (the 'ahhh' type sound), I am using the Solo Soprano Female voice in a chord. To me, it stands out a bit more. If anything, it could use more Chorus and Reverb to fatten it up a bit.

The Sax I am using in that song might sound different because I am still learning the nuances of the original sax recording on the album. I am not playing it 'note for note' yet and I do not have all of the nuances (stuff that would be in the DNC controls on the Korg) completely learned yet. What I did was an approximation of the original sax sound and with that in mind, it sounds great.

The guitar is kind of a no-brainer for me, as I have decided to really focus my attention on recreating guitar sounds, for lead guitars, that try to be very real. It is more an exercise of articulation than anything. I know that I can get David Gilmour's guitar tone pretty close, but it is the articulation of 'how' he plays that makes it seem more real.

Here is the link again for my Google Drive to share the songs so other can hear to in reference to what I post below. It is nice when others can also hear what we are talking about

https://drive.google.com/open?id=1bb2tpk7ocMqXIwtcMMJdTZEPYHiRSHmF

Here is a breakdown of the 6 songs I linked for you:

1. Terminal Frost - this is a sequence. I am playing the Lead Guitar and Classical Guitar at the end live while the sequence plays.

The backing tracks are running through Master EFX A with Reverb and Chorus. The piano in EFX A has a bit of chorus on it.

The lead guitar is running Master EFX B with Reverb and Chorus/Delay and I am using an Insert Effect of Distortion/Sim.

2. Captain of Her Heart - this sequence is set up very similarly to Terminal Frost as far as effects go. The lead guitar is set up similarly.

3. Give me the Night - this sequence is a George Benson song where all backing tracks are getting their EFX from Block A again. The lead synth is running through EFX B.

4. Reason to Live - this sequence is a ballad from Kiss from their Crazy Nights album. There is no lead on this recording as I wanted you to hear a sequence without leads getting in the way. All background tracks are using EFX A with Reverb and Chorus. The guitar you do hear is also running an Insert Effect of Distortion/Sim. When

5. What a Fool Believes - this is a sequence of the Doobie Brother's hit. The backing tracks are in EFX A with Reverb and Chorus and the Lead Guitar is running through EFX B with Reverb Chorus and an Insert Effect of Distortion/Sim. There actually two drum tracks here (Tracks 10 and 11). They are identical except for the drum kit. The Doobie Brothers used two drummers on stage to make their drums sound fatter so I emulated that by copying track 10 to track 11 and then used a different drum kit.

6. Doxology - this is a style that was recorded live into the sequencer using the Backing Sequence record feature. The lead guitar was a custom one by me that I use live when I play the song. I played the lead guitar live over the style as it was being recorded into the sequencer. The backing tracks are using EFX A Reverb and Chorus (whatever was default for that style) and I have a keyboard set with the lead guitar in it using EFX B with an insert Effect of Distortion/Sim. The acoustic guitar you hear in the beginning and at the end is actually a pad sequence on the Korg that I activated at the beginning and ending of the song. The percussion sounds (shakers, tambourine, etc..) are also on a pad that I activated in the beginning and end while the sequence was playing. At the end of the song where everything stops and then comes back in with the acoustic guitar, this was accomplished by hitting Ending #3 to stop the sequence. Once the countdown was finished for the style (it is in 4/4 so at then end of beat 4 it truly stopped), I activated the pad containing the acoustic playing again and added the percussion by hitting the other pad as well. Once I was done playing the lead over those elements, I stopped and completed the song itself.

At the end of church services, as the congregants leave the sanctuary, I load this sequence and let it play while they leave.

When I play the lead guitar over the top, it is running through EFX B with an Insert Effect of Distortion/Sim.

I hope that this gives a bit more explanation on the songs and my comment on the PA700 sounding thin 'out of the box' compared to the other brands' offerings. It was not meant to be a negative statement, but rather the attention that Korg places on making their instruments even more customizable than what other brands do.

Grace,
Harry
_________________
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