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Scott
Platinum Member
Joined: 16 Oct 2009
Posts: 1015
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 Posted: Fri Nov 08, 2019 5:45 pm Post subject: |
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| I don't find the PC4 screen to be squint-provoking. And I find it a lot easier to read than the PX5S with its no-descender dot matrix look. Much easier interface to navigate, too. |
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GregC
Platinum Member
Joined: 15 May 2002
Posts: 9451
Location: Discovery Bay (San Francisco Bay Area)
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GregC
Platinum Member
Joined: 15 May 2002
Posts: 9451
Location: Discovery Bay (San Francisco Bay Area)
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| Posted: Sat Nov 09, 2019 4:29 pm Post subject: |
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| Scott wrote: | | I don't find the PC4 screen to be squint-provoking. o. |
very good, can I borrow your eyes for a few years ?
Anyway, this video does a decent job showing the PC4 LCD and the many details to work with. FWIW, the fonts look tiny.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s97gAty-AzU
Since this visual requirement is subjective, I still plan to demo he PC4
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Kronos 88. MODX8
Achieve your musical dreams 
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Last edited by GregC on Sat Nov 09, 2019 4:49 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Scott
Platinum Member
Joined: 16 Oct 2009
Posts: 1015
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| Posted: Sat Nov 09, 2019 4:44 pm Post subject: |
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| GregC wrote: | | Anyway, this video does a decent job showing the PC4 LCD and the many details to work with. FWIW, the fonts look tiny. |
The video link was missing.
Yes, the PC4 text can be small, but the resolution means the letters look solid, and the contrast is usually good. Sure, bigger would be nice. But I still find the PC4 screen more readable than Kronos or the PX-5S that were mentioned. Whether it's good enough for you, only you'll be able to tell. |
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GregC
Platinum Member
Joined: 15 May 2002
Posts: 9451
Location: Discovery Bay (San Francisco Bay Area)
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| Posted: Sat Nov 09, 2019 4:49 pm Post subject: |
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| Scott wrote: | | GregC wrote: | | Anyway, this video does a decent job showing the PC4 LCD and the many details to work with. FWIW, the fonts look tiny. |
The video link was missing.
Yes, the PC4 text can be small, but the resolution means the letters look solid, and the contrast is usually good. Sure, bigger would be nice. But I still find the PC4 screen more readable than Kronos or the PX-5S that were mentioned. Whether it's good enough for you, only you'll be able to tell. |
here 's the YT:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s97gAty-AzU
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Kronos 88. MODX8
Achieve your musical dreams
https://soundcloud.com/user-898236994 |
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Koekepan
Platinum Member
Joined: 27 Sep 2016
Posts: 617
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| Posted: Sat Nov 09, 2019 6:17 pm Post subject: |
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| GregC wrote: | | Scott wrote: | | I don't find the PC4 screen to be squint-provoking. o. |
very good, can I borrow your eyes for a few years ?
Anyway, this video does a decent job showing the PC4 LCD and the many details to work with. FWIW, the fonts look tiny.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s97gAty-AzU
Since this visual requirement is subjective, I still plan to demo he PC4 |
My eyes have similar problems. My solution was to talk to my optometrist about a separate prescription for this use case. Problem solved.
As far as the Fantom's recording structure, that video shows how they created a $4000 keyboard that is actually worse than most grooveboxes for creating longer, musically complex pieces. At this point I think that $4000 would be better spent on an MPC X, a Numa Compact 2X, a Blofeld and a mic. More function for less cash and a better interface. |
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GregC
Platinum Member
Joined: 15 May 2002
Posts: 9451
Location: Discovery Bay (San Francisco Bay Area)
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| Posted: Sat Nov 09, 2019 7:12 pm Post subject: |
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| Koekepan wrote: |
My eyes have similar problems. My solution was to talk to my optometrist about a separate prescription for this use case. Problem solved.
As far as the Fantom's recording structure, that video shows how they created a $4000 keyboard that is actually worse than most grooveboxes for creating longer, musically complex pieces. At this point I think that $4000 would be better spent on an MPC X, a Numa Compact 2X, a Blofeld and a mic. More function for less cash and a better interface. |
I had the equivalent of a stroke in my left 2 years ago and as a result, get retina treatments every 3 months. I am lucky to have what I have. Anyway, I am totally on top of specialist eye care.
My minimum requirement is 16 midi or 16 stereo instrument tracks for a standalone keyboard. Plus all the edit and monitor of any existing track, going back and forth, adding FX, removing existing tracks, re-recording a new instrument track, etc etc etc. Which is roughly my Kronos process which I am very comfortable with.
Maybe I missed it, but I don't see this flexibility with standalone Fantom SEQ.
It looks like a struggle/workaround to circle back and make changes
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miroxp
Joined: 28 Jul 2016
Posts: 10
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| Posted: Mon Jan 06, 2020 6:56 pm Post subject: |
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I've been a Yamaha guy for 20 years or so before I quit music altogether. These days I peek at new products now and then just to see how pathetic manufacturers have become. The trend that started years ago apparently is still en vogue today: a declared war on workstations resulting in HOW music is composed and created. Workstations have always belonged in the studio where music is composed, recorded, arranged and produced. I've never seen an Arranger in a studio despite how hard Yamaha is trying to sell us the idea that this is what people want. Ask all the Motif owners if you don't believe me. Ask them what they think of Yamaha. I was curious when Roland rolled out their newest workstation hoping someone came to their senses and created a truly full blown w/s with all the advantages technology brings in 2020. Well, from reading opinions and specs sheets it's clear that it's not. Apparently, sound wise it's nothing breathtaking either no matter how sugarcoated by PR departments. I guess all those companies should start adding a desktop computer with every keyboard sale because I see no way of excluding a third party (computer) from the process the way things are now. At least Roland fans can choose from a relatively long list of machines to buy compared to Yamaha. Those suckers have one flagship "one-man-band" glorified Tyros called Genos and the kiddie stuff labeled PSR series. I refuse to accept that as normal. But again, maybe it's just me thinking instruments are exactly where music in general is today...
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I've never seen or heard a Pultec but desperately want one! |
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miroxp
Joined: 28 Jul 2016
Posts: 10
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| Posted: Mon Jan 06, 2020 7:34 pm Post subject: |
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| cello wrote: | | jimknopf wrote: | Well, their new Fantom Facebook page is topped with this really hilarious statement:
"Roland has redefined the workstation - releasing the best workstation ever built. This group is for users to learn and share more about this amazing instrument."
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The above sentence in the Fantom Facebook group makes me laugh my socks off... |
Just FYI - it's not Roland's FB page; it's mine. And I am the author of the hilarious statement! It's just my opinion, (as your post above is yours), and is in no way presented as being 'right' or indeed a 'fact'. Until recently I thought the OASYS was the best workstation ever built, but having used the Fantom 8 for over a month now, I have changed my mind. |
I think users should be very vocal when manufacturers fail so miserably to deliver or try to insult their customers in an industry that should be heavily dependent on feedback. You're not doing anyone a favor by praising an instrument that lacks many signature feats to be classified as a w/s let alone "the best w/s ever built". I'd be prepared to be insulted and would accept jokes directed at me if I posted in a drag-race forum claiming the newest Honda is the fastest dragster vehicle ever built. Honesty in opinion would be best for all.
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I've never seen or heard a Pultec but desperately want one!
Last edited by miroxp on Mon Jan 06, 2020 8:05 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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miroxp
Joined: 28 Jul 2016
Posts: 10
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| Posted: Mon Jan 06, 2020 7:52 pm Post subject: |
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| KJandKT wrote: | ... Hardly anyone will pay both $5000 for a Genos and then $4000 for a Montage with a total price-tag of $9000...
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I think it has been because manufacturers think they can get double the sales...but in reality, hardly anyone is going to have the money or inclination to spend $9000 on two boards...plus it still doesn't answer the question of providing a seamless, easy workflow on one board for everything.
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With Yamaha, after spending $9000 on both boards, you'd have the added bonus of still missing a sequencer that could do any decent job! Hilarious!
And yes, they're doing it because they can double and triple the sales by segregating i.e. not offering all features in one complete package, while destroying the creative link between the person and the instrument and annihilating any workflow and production integration and facilitation that would be possible as laid out in your post.
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I've never seen or heard a Pultec but desperately want one! |
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tcornishmn
Full Member
Joined: 25 May 2005
Posts: 196
Location: St. Paul, MN
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| Posted: Mon Jan 06, 2020 8:02 pm Post subject: |
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| Koekepan wrote: | The VAST engine is also a pretty big selling point for the Kurzweil. It's a mature, incredibly capable system.
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I have owned K2600s, PC2s, PC3s, and a couple other Kurzweil pieces. My education is in computer science/electronics, my day job is in IT, and much of my personal life deals with technology. VAST defeated me. I simply never got it. As powerful as I'm told by everyone that it is, I never got 10% out of VAST what I get out of the Kronos with its engines including the AL-1.
I'm rooting for Kurzweil - they are a tenacious company and I'm glad they're still around, but the current Kurzweil products still look way too much like my old K2600 for me to give them another try. |
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miroxp
Joined: 28 Jul 2016
Posts: 10
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| Posted: Mon Jan 06, 2020 8:03 pm Post subject: |
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| Jan1 wrote: | I don't know what they were thinking at Roland's headquarters when they decided to implement a limited pattern sequencer in the new Fantom flagship with only two time signatures to choose from and very limited editing options......When it comes to DAW integration, I don't use a Mac, so the Logic/Mainstage integration, as nice as it is, is of no use to me....A very limited pattern sequencer, no audio tracks, no multi-sampling, no good acoustic instruments emulations, no dedicated organ, no integration with DAWs other than Logic.
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I mainly joined the conversation to see if Fantom could be a replacement for Motif and after reading lots of user input I ran into your post. Thanks for answering my question! What were they thinking, indeed?
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I've never seen or heard a Pultec but desperately want one! |
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GregC
Platinum Member
Joined: 15 May 2002
Posts: 9451
Location: Discovery Bay (San Francisco Bay Area)
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| Posted: Mon Jan 06, 2020 9:16 pm Post subject: |
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| miroxp wrote: | [q
I think users should be very vocal when manufacturers fail so miserably to deliver or try to insult their customers in an industry that should be heavily dependent on feedback. You're not doing anyone a favor by praising an instrument that lacks many signature feats to be classified as a w/s let alone "the best w/s ever built". I'd be prepared to be insulted and would accept jokes directed at me if I posted in a drag-race forum claiming the newest Honda is the fastest dragster vehicle ever built. Honesty in opinion would be best for all. |
You make good points about the mfgr's and customers could be more critical.
We might create a scorecard to evaluate certain areas.
As a customer, we can turn up the BS radar detector. There is exaggeration and noise to be filtered out.
I think the mfgr's have done a very good job on instrument sound, audio, FX, synthesizer stuff. Its been an evolution since the 60's/70's.
FYI, I am not quick to praise and kneel before the altar of technology. Again, the mfgr's have done a good job utilizing processing, storage and harnessing the power. Kronos SSD streaming ia good example, of clever invention.
The manufacturers [ Roland and Yamaha ] have finally arrived at a decent LCD for their premier keyboards [ Fantom, Montage/MODX]. This is a huge requirement of someone with my declining eye sight. And of course, what about gigging keyboardists dealing with glare and lighting at gigs ? This is an area that needed attention.
I also think key bed design and instrument weight management , general reliability has been a success. Lets not be super picky. I think all 3 co's have done a good or very good job.
There is 1 area where the instrument co's have fallen short. Work process, work flow, navigation, getting edits done, etc etc. I think the co's are not imaginative on work flow. High learning curve is not a standard to shout about. Co's are in the way of themselves, for work flow, IMO. Keyboard programming should not be a complex puzzle. If I pay $2000, $3000-$4000, it bothers me to spend 3 months to figure out how to get the potential out of the keyboard.
There are other general areas to evaluate. The above is what comes to mind as core areas.
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Achieve your musical dreams
https://soundcloud.com/user-898236994 |
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