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ordaincafe
Joined: 10 Sep 2019 Posts: 16
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Posted: Sun Nov 03, 2019 12:44 pm Post subject: Way to save sounds on Direct or USB |
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Is there any way to save sounds to usb or Direct folder, now we can save style to usb or Direct folder and can play from there. Is there any similar ways to save the sound to USb and play from USB or Direct folder. |
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Biggles Platinum Member
Joined: 31 Aug 2017 Posts: 1006
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Posted: Sun Nov 03, 2019 1:15 pm Post subject: |
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Save a customised Style as a Song during the write process the option is to save to Internal or to the Direct folder.
To set up a Direct access folder follow procedure as following:-
On a PC create a folder on your USB drive that you want to use as the Direct folder, I keep mine simple and called my folder Direct.set (including the .set in the name), eject USB correctly (use the eject routine rather than simply pulling it out) and inset it into your PA.
Now press and hold Shift then Press Media button.
Onscreen there should be a Media tab, press it.
On screen there is the legend Direct Folder.
Press Browse then navigate to your new folder you want to use, click on Select etc and you are good to go.
Now if you want to save Songs to this folder you can and once you have saved to it each Song saved there will have a border around it to show that it is saved to the Direct folder (when you are in Songbook mode that is). _________________ Biggles
Lancashire, UK |
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B.Safe Full Member
Joined: 18 Apr 2018 Posts: 145 Location: Paris, France
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Posted: Sun Nov 03, 2019 4:08 pm Post subject: Re: Way to save sounds on Direct or USB |
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ordaincafe wrote: | Is there any way to save sounds to usb or Direct folder, now we can save style to usb or Direct folder and can play from there. Is there any similar ways to save the sound to USb and play from USB or Direct folder. |
In PA700/PA1000, you can copy sounds to USB (for backup or transfer to a friends keyboard), but you can only play them when they are in a USER bank in the internal memory.
The Direct folder is not usable for sounds (at least in the current version of the OS). _________________ PA1000, TC-Helicon Perform-VK, FCB1010, Reaper, MobileSheets |
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ordaincafe
Joined: 10 Sep 2019 Posts: 16
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Posted: Sun Nov 03, 2019 5:31 pm Post subject: |
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Is any os update coming soon for Pa 700/1000. |
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Biggles Platinum Member
Joined: 31 Aug 2017 Posts: 1006
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Posted: Sun Nov 03, 2019 5:49 pm Post subject: |
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There is a webinar on the 14th were a Korg are showing the new special edition of the 700 so it will be interesting to see if there is any difference.
As it is I would expect a 1000/700 OS update similar to the OS Next that was released for the 4X, but what the timescale is likely to be is anyone’s guess. _________________ Biggles
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siebenhirter Platinum Member
Joined: 13 Oct 2011 Posts: 1843
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Posted: Sun Nov 03, 2019 6:23 pm Post subject: Re: Way to save sounds on Direct or USB |
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ordaincafe wrote: | .. to save sounds to usb or Direct folder .. |
When COPYING a sound, only the PCG data of a sound are copied.
As a sound not only needs the parameters of its PCG file, but also all the multisamples and samples linked to it, a copied sound can only be played back from the user bank if it consists exclusively of multisamples and samples of the factory sounds.
As soon as a user sound uses multisamples that are not from the factory area, it will be corrupt after copying because it lacks the data of the multisamples.
Errors also occurs when user samples are used, because links to the correct locations of the PCM data of the internal memory are missing.
*
User sounds in Direct Sets is no good idea, because data of Direct Sets are directly accessed from a storage device, without first having to load them. But user sounds are not directly loadable like KbdSets, Styles, Pads or VoicePresets.
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To transmit User-Sounds requires a setup to be SAVED, which also contains the KMP file and the PCG samples. It can be transmitted as a single sound only with a LOAD command, which automatically will write / update and merge the samples and multisamples in the internal memory of the target device, which are linked to the loaded user sound.
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Loading / merging data based on user sounds / user samples it is recommended to load SINGLE sounds, else loading such a set folder will delete all user samples existing in memory. _________________ kind regards
- siebenhirter, austria -
Interesting facts about styles and stylePlayer functions can be found at http: www.elmarherz.de |
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Randelph Platinum Member
Joined: 18 Oct 2008 Posts: 604 Location: San Francisco, CA
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Posted: Mon Nov 04, 2019 1:07 am Post subject: |
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Biggles wrote: | Save a customised Style as a Song during the write process the option is to save to Internal or to the Direct folder.
To set up a Direct access folder follow procedure as following:-
On a PC create a folder on your USB drive that you want to use as the Direct folder, I keep mine simple and called my folder Direct.set (including the .set in the name), eject USB correctly (use the eject routine rather than simply pulling it out) and inset it into your PA.
Now press and hold Shift then Press Media button.
Onscreen there should be a Media tab, press it.
On screen there is the legend Direct Folder.
Press Browse then navigate to your new folder you want to use, click on Select etc and you are good to go.
Now if you want to save Songs to this folder you can and once you have saved to it each Song saved there will have a border around it to show that it is saved to the Direct folder (when you are in Songbook mode that is). |
Thank You! I've finally gotten up the courage/patience to began dealing with file management! I hate it!!!
Anyways, your helpful response is very timely. _________________ Keyboards: Kawai ES920 / Casio CT-X5000
Instruments: Keys / Alto Recorder and Melodica |
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Randelph Platinum Member
Joined: 18 Oct 2008 Posts: 604 Location: San Francisco, CA
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Posted: Mon Nov 04, 2019 1:34 am Post subject: Re: Way to save sounds on Direct or USB |
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siebenhirter wrote: | ordaincafe wrote: | .. to save sounds to usb or Direct folder .. |
When COPYING a sound, only the PCG data of a sound are copied.
As a sound not only needs the parameters of its PCG file, but also all the multisamples and samples linked to it, a copied sound can only be played back from the user bank if it consists exclusively of multisamples and samples of the factory sounds.
As soon as a user sound uses multisamples that are not from the factory area, it will be corrupt after copying because it lacks the data of the multisamples.
Errors also occurs when user samples are used, because links to the correct locations of the PCM data of the internal memory are missing.
*
User sounds in Direct Sets is no good idea, because data of Direct Sets are directly accessed from a storage device, without first having to load them. But user sounds are not directly loadable like KbdSets, Styles, Pads or VoicePresets.
*
To transmit User-Sounds requires a setup to be SAVED, which also contains the KMP file and the PCG samples. It can be transmitted as a single sound only with a LOAD command, which automatically will write / update and merge the samples and multisamples in the internal memory of the target device, which are linked to the loaded user sound.
*
Loading / merging data based on user sounds / user samples it is recommended to load SINGLE sounds, else loading such a set folder will delete all user samples existing in memory. |
Damn, this stuff gets deep as far as understanding all the 'gotchas'.
So you're mostly addressing the issues that come up with loading custom sounds, and the Pa not being able to find the multi-samples. I know MwH uses Ruben's piano, so obviously it's possible to use the sample memory. But you're recommending doing this one sound at a time. Why would it necessarily write over user samples in memory? Esp since we've got sample memory to use.
And if you're saving Songs/Styles, and load it into someone else's board, how does this new board know the info about changes you made to factory sounds, pads, etc? It seems like this board has the ability to be customizable to an incredible extent, but that also means that unless you've got a safe roadmap, you're going to end up being very frustrated at times.
And why not use the built-in SD card instead of the flash drive inserted in 1 of the 2 USB Host ports? The SD card has the advantage of being with the machine, no need to insert it and you can't lose it. Perhaps if I was going to play someone else's board, a flash drive would get me quickly up to speed, but I doubt that's going to happen, this is a very small club we're a part of!
There are so many different things to save: Songs / Styles / Keyboard Sets / Sounds / Pads / etc. I've used alot of boards where you lose the sound, it becomes 'orphaned', if its moved. It was actually referencing the exact position in the list of Factory or User Sounds. Makes me worry about organizing everything to my liking, that I might be messing up the boards ability to find the Song/Style/Sound/ etc.
It would be helpful if you'd layout a step-by-step like Biggles just did for using custom samples! Alot of work I know, and of course with enough patience a person could slug it out, and eventually figure out these very specific tasks. But when we do a Stickie that's a help guide, you'll have already written some step by step tutorials.
I wish there was a flow chart for all this saving nonsense!!!
Thanks,
Randy _________________ Keyboards: Kawai ES920 / Casio CT-X5000
Instruments: Keys / Alto Recorder and Melodica |
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Biggles Platinum Member
Joined: 31 Aug 2017 Posts: 1006
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Posted: Mon Nov 04, 2019 3:12 pm Post subject: |
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With the PA4X and its various OS updates these have also unlocked hardware such as extra memory.
One thing that I am hoping happens with the 1000 and 700 is that this also happens with these keyboards in future OS updates
Today I tried to load additional Korg sounds off my memory stick and was greeted with an error message advising that the memory in my 700 was full.
It is a shame that this is the case as I only have about 1/2 of the user banks loaded with additional sounds.
So yes, it would be very useful to have the ability to play sounds directly from external memory but as Sibenhirter explains so well that this is not currently possible.
With the 1000 and 700 if you save Songs to the USB drive and then customise them as desired with keybdsets, pads, intros, vars, fills etc you can then transfer the USB drive to another PA and use it as if it was your PA (more or less) as long as the resources you are using are on the other PA which should be OK from your 1000 to a 4X but may be a bit problematic on a 700, it is a suck it and see situation.
This is one reason why I have suggested in previous that you load the Osimo data for each of the keyboards onto your memory stick, they do not take up much resource and they enable known content to be played on each PA. _________________ Biggles
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Biggles Platinum Member
Joined: 31 Aug 2017 Posts: 1006
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Posted: Mon Nov 04, 2019 3:12 pm Post subject: |
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With the PA4X and its various OS updates these have also unlocked hardware such as extra memory.
One thing that I am hoping happens with the 1000 and 700 is that this also happens with these keyboards in future OS updates
Today I tried to load additional Korg sounds off my memory stick and was greeted with an error message advising that the memory in my 700 was full.
It is a shame that this is the case as I only have about 1/2 of the user banks loaded with additional sounds.
So yes, it would be very useful to have the ability to play sounds directly from external memory but as Sibenhirter explains so well that this is not currently possible.
With the 1000 and 700 if you save Songs to the USB drive and then customise them as desired with keybdsets, pads, intros, vars, fills etc you can then transfer the USB drive to another PA and use it as if it was your PA (more or less) as long as the resources you are using are on the other PA which should be OK from your 1000 to a 4X but may be a bit problematic on a 700, it is a suck it and see situation.
This is one reason why I have suggested in previous that you load the Osimo data for each of the keyboards onto your memory stick, they do not take up much resource and they enable known content to be played on each PA. _________________ Biggles
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siebenhirter Platinum Member
Joined: 13 Oct 2011 Posts: 1843
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Posted: Mon Nov 04, 2019 8:05 pm Post subject: Re: Way to save sounds on Direct or USB |
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Randelph wrote: | ... this saving nonsense!!! ... |
That's because you're tied to the structure of the Pa arranger. If accepting existing structures, also its storage processes will become more understandable:
- user-sounds are fixed to a location in user-sound-bank (pcg)
---> user-sounds in Styles, Pads and KbdSets are linked with numbers to that locations (in source device)
---> if that Styles, Pads, KbdSets are used in another Pa-Keyboard its sounds only are found and used, if same sounds are located at same location as in source
Solution in case merging such data: if user-sounds in target does not exist on same location as in source, it is necessary to manually remap resources to valid locations of user-sounds.
- user-sounds are linked with Multisamples located in RAM.KMP
---> if user-sounds will be used in another Pa-Keyboard, its links to RAM.KMP only are found if RAM.KMP is prepared for these links
- multisamples are linked to samples, located in PCM-folder (RAM01..99.pcm)
---> if multisample will be used in another Pa-Keyboard, its links to PCMs only are found if samples exists in PCM-area of internal memory
Solution in case merging data with user-samples: if merging sets prerequisite of playing with custom resources (Direct or USER) is to load its PCM, done by loading a single sound (or a user-sound-bank) - in this case OS manage update of multisamples and samples in target device!
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Randelph wrote: | ... recommending doing this one sound at a time ... |
For merging data with user samples that is recommended, because LOADING a set folder will delete all user samples existing in memory, while loading single sounds will update locations and links of user-sounds, multisamples and samples.
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Randelph wrote: | ... wish there was a flow chart ... |
About basics - like how to write Styles (Manual, p306) or how to create Set folders (Manual, p933) - it helps reading file management instructions in manual.
For basics no flowchart is necessary and also is not necessary to prepare Direct Access folders an a PC. You can choose any standard SET folder as the Direct folder on the desired target device and Set folder named as desired (if you want maybe Direct.set).
Randelph wrote: | ... And why not use the built-in SD card instead of the flash drive inserted in 1 of the 2 USB Host ports? ... |
.. there is no obstacle not to use this, but a direct set with user-sounds is useless, because user-sounds always have to be resident in the internal memory
Randelph wrote: | ..... Why would it necessarily write over user samples in memory? ..... |
If the space for samples is insufficient, it will not be automatically overwritten, but the loading will be aborted with a message. There also no overwriting happens when loading individual samples. When loading an entire set, the PCM area in the internal memory is cleared beforehand and then rewritten with new samples.
Randelph wrote: | ... There are so many different things to save: Songs / Styles / Keyboard Sets / Sounds / Pads / etc. I've used alot of boards where you lose the sound, it becomes 'orphaned', if its moved. It was actually referencing the exact position in the list of Factory or User Sounds. ... |
Referencing to positions of factory sounds there no sounds will become orphaned, but happen with user sounds if do not exist on expected position in user-sound-bank. Resources with user-sounds only will work when re-mapped to a valid location of user-sound.
Randelph wrote: | ... if you're saving Songs/Styles, and load it into someone else's board, how does this new board know the info about changes you made to factory sounds, pads, etc? .. |
... the new board does not know that infos !
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@Biggles
The basic problem of DirectSet and user-samples is not solved with extra memory as long as user-samples can only be read from the internal memory.
Osimo is also no solution for OriginalPoster, because Osimo has no user samples as far as I know, but is created with a range of set lists for popular songs so you can instantly select and play.
To save songs on external drives nothing has to do with Direct folder or user-sounds.
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@ordaincafe
There is no way to play sounds from Direct folder - direct data can be considered as extension of the internal memory, but never were planned to do that with user sounds (Manual Page 927).
The drawback ist that EACH USER-SAMPLE MUST BE PRESENT IN INTERNAL MEMORY BEFORE USED WITH DATA FROM DIRECT-SET.
Maybe this is a style in direct-set with user-sound. This user-sound is linked to Multisamples of internal memory and that Multisamples are linked to Samples in internal memory - and in addition, a user sounds in a track of the direct-style must be linked (re-mapped) to the sound existing in a user-sound bank of the internal memory.
If you want to use one single specific sound (PCG) in other SETs it is necessary before to SAVE not only the PCG but also all its required multisamples (KMPs) and samples (PCMs) for that sound (else no PCM is generated). So do not save a single user sound but save completely "User Sound&DK" and "User Sample" to get all data in a Set - then load a single Sound from this folder to your target.
http://www.korgforums.com/forum/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?p=726843
http://www.korgforums.com/forum/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=112463 _________________ kind regards
- siebenhirter, austria -
Interesting facts about styles and stylePlayer functions can be found at http: www.elmarherz.de |
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Biggles Platinum Member
Joined: 31 Aug 2017 Posts: 1006
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Posted: Mon Nov 04, 2019 8:38 pm Post subject: |
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Sibenhirter wrote
The basic problem of DirectSet and user-samples is not solved with extra memory as long as user-samples can only be read from the internal memory.
Osimo is also no solution for OriginalPoster, because Osimo has no user samples as far as I know, but is created with a range of set lists for popular songs so you can instantly select and play.
To save songs on external drives nothing has to do with Direct folder or user-sounds.
*
Saving to the Direct folder can be very useful if portability of your repertoire is a useful feature.
Simply save to USB and it can be plugged into another PA and used there as long as the resources exist on the other PA
Osimo is transportable and known songs are fully customised and can be very useful as they are or as the basis for other songs they are useful additions and take up minimal internal resource. It does not include samples as these would be useless in the PA as it is.
Saving songs to the Direct folder has everything to do with it, if you do not enable Direct Access you cannot save to it. Once saved there then you have the transportability again. It also frees up using internal memory
Agree about user sounds which I did comment upon. _________________ Biggles
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siebenhirter Platinum Member
Joined: 13 Oct 2011 Posts: 1843
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Posted: Mon Nov 04, 2019 9:48 pm Post subject: Osimo - not necessary any user-samples |
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Biggles wrote: | .. Osimo is ... fully customised and can be very useful as they are or as the basis for other songs they are useful additions and take up minimal internal resource. It does not include samples as these would be useless in the PA as it is.... |
That would mean, sample feature generally is useless for Pa-Arranger - simply customize registrations, that is enough.
If user-samples are useless in case musical resources are fully customised - as you described with Osimo - it's amazing why the memory of your Pa700 is already overflowing after you graft half of the user sound banks.
Osimo software is thus proof that the samples and multisamples available in Pa-Arranger are sufficient, so that with appropriate registration of the instruments additional samples are not necessary in order to produce any kind of sounds, if already implemented tools are used accordingly.
For this reason, I feel the capacity for additional samples in the Pa-Arrangerkeyboards is sufficient. That is because if the ideas of how the sound of a Arrangerkeyboards should sound is not to realize with the existing resources and tools, then also can not be achieved with an additional sample of more than 256 MB linear.
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If there's anything to complain about at the Pa1000 / 700, then that's not the capacity for additional samples, but the retrograde development of the Style features compared to previous models like Pa3x / 800/500.
To get back functions we already had with previous midrange-arrangers and updating StyleToKbdSet as often described here - that I hope would happen with an OS update. _________________ kind regards
- siebenhirter, austria -
Interesting facts about styles and stylePlayer functions can be found at http: www.elmarherz.de |
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Randelph Platinum Member
Joined: 18 Oct 2008 Posts: 604 Location: San Francisco, CA
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Posted: Tue Nov 05, 2019 2:40 am Post subject: |
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Biggles wrote: | With the PA4X and its various OS updates these have also unlocked hardware such as extra memory.
One thing that I am hoping happens with the 1000 and 700 is that this also happens with these keyboards in future OS updates
Today I tried to load additional Korg sounds off my memory stick and was greeted with an error message advising that the memory in my 700 was full.
It is a shame that this is the case as I only have about 1/2 of the user banks loaded with additional sounds.
So yes, it would be very useful to have the ability to play sounds directly from external memory but as Sibenhirter explains so well that this is not currently possible.
With the 1000 and 700 if you save Songs to the USB drive and then customise them as desired with keybdsets, pads, intros, vars, fills etc you can then transfer the USB drive to another PA and use it as if it was your PA (more or less) as long as the resources you are using are on the other PA which should be OK from your 1000 to a 4X but may be a bit problematic on a 700, it is a suck it and see situation.
This is one reason why I have suggested in previous that you load the Osimo data for each of the keyboards onto your memory stick, they do not take up much resource and they enable known content to be played on each PA. |
So you're saying that as long as the factory samples and multi-samples are present, that you can load Songs that have customized Styles/Pads/Sounds/Variations/etc. Basically, the parameters of modified Styles and Sounds is relatively small in size.
But how does these loaded Songs know which samples to look for? Many of the customized Styles and Sounds are in User locations, and have been renamed.
--------------
As far as the Pa1000 and Pa4x being compatible because of the underlying samples being the same, I don't think so, but it's hard to know. On Korg's website they say the Pa1000 has 960 MB for Storage, whatever that means. I assume that's what the Pa1000 uses for samples and doesn't include the 300 MB of memory for user samples. I didn't find the Storage number for the Pa4x.
And when they say the Pa1000 has 1,750 sounds I assume they're not talking about the number of Samples but rather the Sounds in the Factory/Legacy/GM banks.
I heard a number, 7-8,000 factory samples in the Yamaha Modx? _________________ Keyboards: Kawai ES920 / Casio CT-X5000
Instruments: Keys / Alto Recorder and Melodica |
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ordaincafe
Joined: 10 Sep 2019 Posts: 16
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Posted: Tue Nov 05, 2019 4:23 am Post subject: |
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I think all these sample memory related problems will end if korg comes in with an update that is capable of loading/playing sample or sound from usb media like style. |
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