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Pirate
Joined: 25 May 2019
Posts: 11
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 Posted: Sat Nov 16, 2019 10:42 am Post subject: MIDI Backing Tracks. |
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Hi,
Do any of the Korg Arranger Keyboards come with complete song backing tracks already loaded on Korg Disk, or is it just styles. |
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Biggles
Platinum Member
Joined: 31 Aug 2017
Posts: 1013
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| Posted: Sat Nov 16, 2019 11:58 am Post subject: |
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They just have Styles as standard.
Some retailers include a USB memory stick with extra resources on it.
A Korg Arranger can play a MIDI, it just makes a best guess at what instrument to use hence a degree of customising may or may not be required.
A PA also includes a MIDI to Style creator bot which converts the MIDI to a Style.
Hence they are very flexible.
Do watch the Korg Video Manual series of instructional videos on the PA model you are considering, ie Google search Korg Video Manual PA1000
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Biggles
Lancashire, UK |
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gwc uk
Junior Member
Joined: 19 Jun 2019
Posts: 65
Location: LINCOLN UK
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| Posted: Sat Nov 16, 2019 5:25 pm Post subject: |
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A PA also includes a MIDI to Style creator bot which converts the MIDI to a Style.
The odd Midi to Style works Extra adjustment are expected but for me all the conversion results I tried were very poor.
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PA1000 + NP30 Twinset |
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siebenhirter
Platinum Member
Joined: 13 Oct 2011
Posts: 1844
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| Posted: Sun Nov 17, 2019 12:52 pm Post subject: Style creator bot - prepare SMF for converting |
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| gwc uk wrote: | | .... MIDI to Style creator bot which converts the MIDI to a Style .... but for me all the conversion results I tried were very poor.... |
It is an illusion to think each SMF would be converted to a good style.
As mentioned in Pa-manuals, the quality of results may vary depending on the source song.
Sometimews or mostly it is necessary to prepare the source song to get a good result. How to thoroughly initialize SMFs for style Creator corresponds to the procedure like it was required with Pa3x - it is described in Manual "Pa3x-Advanced Edit", Page 29, "Importing an SMF separated by Markers into a Style".
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kind regards
- siebenhirter, austria -
Interesting facts about styles and stylePlayer functions can be found at http: www.elmarherz.de |
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Musicwithharry
Platinum Member
Joined: 23 Mar 2012
Posts: 694
Location: Anamosa, IA
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| Posted: Mon Nov 18, 2019 2:39 am Post subject: Re: Style creator bot - prepare SMF for converting |
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| siebenhirter wrote: | | gwc uk wrote: | | .... MIDI to Style creator bot which converts the MIDI to a Style .... but for me all the conversion results I tried were very poor.... |
It is an illusion to think each SMF would be converted to a good style.
As mentioned in Pa-manuals, the quality of results may vary depending on the source song.
Sometimews or mostly it is necessary to prepare the source song to get a good result. How to thoroughly initialize SMFs for style Creator corresponds to the procedure like it was required with Pa3x - it is described in Manual "Pa3x-Advanced Edit", Page 29, "Importing an SMF separated by Markers into a Style". |
This is absolutely correct. The results are varied but generally fall on the poor side, at least for me. I have about 200 MIDI files that I have converted and about 20 that I have programmed from scratch.
Out of all of the MIDI files I have only two or three have actually made a fairly convincing style after being put through the Style Creator Bot. It generally gets most of the elements wrong and even then, you will have to replace most of the sounds from the GM bank to stuff in the Factory/Legacy/User bank to make them sound good.
As MIDI files on their own, I still have to change most, if not all of the program elements in each one and adjust the EFX to suit the sounds.
The electric guitars are probably the most tricky, as I spend a lot of time making sure that they sound similar to the original album recordings of the songs. The amp models and distortion circuits can be configured though, and it allows for very good results.
Since the PA Series are designed to be arrangers and 'backing band' instruments first, they have a good amount of styles that are either 'right on' or really close for live use.
I have a few MIDI files that I purchased from online sources and even they need a fair amount of customizing in order to really shine.
This does not speak badly of Korg and their ability to bring such a great product to market; it is the limitation of MIDI files themselves. No matter where you get them from (free or paid sites), you are basically at the mercy of the arranger of the file. If they do not have good ears, you will find that many of the crucial parts of a song are missing and you will have to put them in yourself.
You could do an entire show from customized MIDI files; I am in a group that does just that (my PA700 is MIDI'ed to different synths that provide provide layers over the top of the PA700 to make it sound like a fuller band). It is crucial that you give each file in audio format to the rest of the band members so they can learn it EXACTLY as it is programmed. Not doing so will crucify the band as they try to follow the MIDI file.
Grace,
Harry
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Alesis Vortex Keytar, Alesis QS6.2, Alesis QSR, Alesis SR-16, Behringer Deepmind-12, Ensoniq Avista 7600, Ensoniq VFX, Ensoniq VFX-SD, Ensoniq SQ1+, (2) Ensoniq SQ-R+/32, Korg i3 (2020 Version), (2) Korg Kross 1-61, (2) Korg Kross 1-88, Korg Minilogue XD, Korg Minilogue XD Module, Korg M50-61, Korg PA700, Korg X5DR, Korg Z3, Kurzweil SP1, Lowrey EZP3 (bascially a Kawai), Roland D-05, Roland E-09, Waldorf Streichfett, Yamaha Reface CP, Yamaha Reface CS, Yamaha Reface DX, Yamaha Reface YC |
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siebenhirter
Platinum Member
Joined: 13 Oct 2011
Posts: 1844
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| Posted: Mon Nov 18, 2019 12:35 pm Post subject: Re: Style creator bot - prepare SMF for converting |
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| Musicwithharry wrote: | | ... It generally gets most of the elements wrong and even then, you will have to replace most of the sounds from the GM bank to stuff in the Factory/Legacy/User bank to make them sound good ... |
Better results are obtained by limiting the SMFs to channels 9-16 before using the Creator bot (Bass, Drum, Perc, Acc1-5). To do this, remove the channels of the less important events for an accompaniment (eg the melody tracks for variations). This gives a more usable base for styles on up to eight channels, assigns them to channels 9-16 and stores them as SMF of format 0 before using the creator bot.
This is a simple process and you get an even better result, if you also set the markers (intros, endings, fills, breaks, variations) manually and not the creator bot, but IMPORT midi-to-style.
While this is a bit more effort, it does bring much better results than using an unmodified SMF for the creator bot.
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kind regards
- siebenhirter, austria -
Interesting facts about styles and stylePlayer functions can be found at http: www.elmarherz.de |
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Musicwithharry
Platinum Member
Joined: 23 Mar 2012
Posts: 694
Location: Anamosa, IA
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| Posted: Mon Nov 18, 2019 4:25 pm Post subject: Re: Style creator bot - prepare SMF for converting |
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| siebenhirter wrote: | | Musicwithharry wrote: | | ... It generally gets most of the elements wrong and even then, you will have to replace most of the sounds from the GM bank to stuff in the Factory/Legacy/User bank to make them sound good ... |
Better results are obtained by limiting the SMFs to channels 9-16 before using the Creator bot (Bass, Drum, Perc, Acc1-5). To do this, remove the channels of the less important events for an accompaniment (eg the melody tracks for variations). This gives a more usable base for styles on up to eight channels, assigns them to channels 9-16 and stores them as SMF of format 0 before using the creator bot.
This is a simple process and you get an even better result, if you also set the markers (intros, endings, fills, breaks, variations) manually and not the creator bot, but IMPORT midi-to-style.
While this is a bit more effort, it does bring much better results than using an unmodified SMF for the creator bot. |
I may try the Import feature. I have seen it but never played around with it. When I get into the songwriting or arranging mode, I tend to stick with what already works for me 
Thank you for the tip.
Grace,
Harry
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Alesis Vortex Keytar, Alesis QS6.2, Alesis QSR, Alesis SR-16, Behringer Deepmind-12, Ensoniq Avista 7600, Ensoniq VFX, Ensoniq VFX-SD, Ensoniq SQ1+, (2) Ensoniq SQ-R+/32, Korg i3 (2020 Version), (2) Korg Kross 1-61, (2) Korg Kross 1-88, Korg Minilogue XD, Korg Minilogue XD Module, Korg M50-61, Korg PA700, Korg X5DR, Korg Z3, Kurzweil SP1, Lowrey EZP3 (bascially a Kawai), Roland D-05, Roland E-09, Waldorf Streichfett, Yamaha Reface CP, Yamaha Reface CS, Yamaha Reface DX, Yamaha Reface YC |
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B.Safe
Full Member
Joined: 18 Apr 2018
Posts: 145
Location: Paris, France
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| Posted: Tue Nov 19, 2019 5:37 pm Post subject: Re: Style creator bot - prepare SMF for converting |
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| siebenhirter wrote: | This is a simple process and you get an even better result, if you also set the markers (intros, endings, fills, breaks, variations) manually and not the creator bot, but IMPORT midi-to-style.
While this is a bit more effort, it does bring much better results than using an unmodified SMF for the creator bot. |
I also prefer to create my styles using markers, because the results of the midi-to-style bot are quite unpredictable, even with a good midi input file.
However, it is not a simple process and adding markers is not enough.
Among the many things to do, the longest is to transpose the notes of each chord into the basic chord of the song's key signature.
Of course, Intro 1 can be left without transposition, if you follow the model of Korg's styles.
An interesting evolution could be that the midi-to-style bot takes into account markers. It would be the best of both worlds. If Korg reads me...
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PA1000, TC-Helicon Perform-VK, FCB1010, Reaper, MobileSheets |
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