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DELLRACHIDO
Joined: 01 Jan 2020
Posts: 42
Location: Morrocco
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 Posted: Fri Feb 14, 2020 2:12 pm Post subject: ROM size & Maximum number samples of Korg Pa4x-Pa1000-Pa |
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HELLO
Can someone tell us the actual size of the ROM and the maximum number of samples (sounds and drumkits) from Pa4x as well as other korg from the Pa series?
We have searched all Korg Pa series user manuals. Unfortunately, no information is communicated by KORG and only the size of the RAM that is communicated.
* Korg pa600 =
Ram : 96MB
Rom : ??
Max number of samples: ???
* Korg pa900 =
Ram : 192MB
Rom : ??
Max number of samples: ???
* Korg pa3x =
Ram : 256MB
Rom : ??
Max number of samples: ???
* Korg pa700 =
Ram : 128MB
Rom : ??
Max number of samples: ???
* Korg pa1000 =
Ram : 300MB
Rom : ??
Max number of samples: ???
* Korg pa4x =
Ram : 1.5GB Ram
Rom : ??
Max number of samples: ???
Cdt
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korg1
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Joined: 17 Nov 2002
Posts: 955
Location: http://pasongstyles.com/
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josf.kumar@gmail.com
Joined: 28 Sep 2015
Posts: 26
Location: India
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| Posted: Sat Feb 15, 2020 6:27 am Post subject: |
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Any hint regarding the OS next update for Korg pa1000 and pa700. I am very eager to know.
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seaside
Full Member
Joined: 07 Sep 2016
Posts: 120
Location: South Wales UK
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musiccankill
Platinum Member
Joined: 30 May 2010
Posts: 884
Location: Greece
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| Posted: Sun Feb 16, 2020 3:10 pm Post subject: Re: ROM size & Maximum number samples of Korg Pa4x-Pa100 |
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| DELLRACHIDO wrote: | HELLO
Can someone tell us the actual size of the ROM and the maximum number of samples (sounds and drumkits) from Pa4x as well as other korg from the Pa series?
We have searched all Korg Pa series user manuals. Unfortunately, no information is communicated by KORG and only the size of the RAM that is communicated.
* Korg pa600 =
Ram : 96MB
Rom : 256Mb
Max number of samples: ???
* Korg pa900 =
Ram : 192MB
Rom : 512Mb
Max number of samples: ???
* Korg pa3x =
Ram : 256MB
Rom : 256Mb (512Mb compressed into 256)
Max number of samples: ???
* Korg pa700 =
Ram : 128MB
Rom : ~1.1Gb
Max number of samples: ???
* Korg pa1000 =
Ram : 300MB
Rom : no info yet
Max number of samples: ???
* Korg pa4x =
Ram : 1.5GB Ram
Rom : >5Gb
Max number of samples: ???
Cdt |
I added in bold the factory library sizes.I only have no info for pa1000 yet.
To add one more model : Pa3x LE has 576Mb ROM (i guess it has better piano samples but haven't confirmed that)
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~~~The best keyboard for any player is the one that fits his/her needs!~~~
Korg keyboards owned now: PA5X 61 ,PA300, Triton extreme 61, Korg 707, Trinity plus |
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chelsea4023
Senior Member
Joined: 06 Apr 2016
Posts: 467
Location: West London, U.K.
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| Posted: Sun Feb 16, 2020 3:31 pm Post subject: |
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Hi,
Regarding the PA600, I am guessing that you cannot increase the 96Mb of Ram.
When loading a new battery (CR2032) at the rear of the PA600 I noticed an empty slot adjacent to the battery space that looked like it could take a micro sd card. Does anybody know what this slot is for ?
Chris |
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musiccankill
Platinum Member
Joined: 30 May 2010
Posts: 884
Location: Greece
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| Posted: Sun Feb 16, 2020 5:10 pm Post subject: |
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| chelsea4023 wrote: | Hi,
Regarding the PA600, I am guessing that you cannot increase the 96Mb of Ram.
When loading a new battery (CR2032) at the rear of the PA600 I noticed an empty slot adjacent to the battery space that looked like it could take a micro sd card. Does anybody know what this slot is for ?
Chris |
You can't increase the ram on any newer than pa3x model as there is no hardware ram available..
Only korg can do it with streaming like the pa4x NEXT os but for sure old generation keyboards (300/600/900/3xle) will never get this update (not even sure if the distribution installed in them can handle it as it is from factory)..
About the micro sd card slot, it is there on almost all newer keyboards.In pa600 it is only used as a locked set dongle if i remember correctly.
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~~~The best keyboard for any player is the one that fits his/her needs!~~~
Korg keyboards owned now: PA5X 61 ,PA300, Triton extreme 61, Korg 707, Trinity plus |
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DELLRACHIDO
Joined: 01 Jan 2020
Posts: 42
Location: Morrocco
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| Posted: Mon Feb 17, 2020 10:40 am Post subject: |
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Hello
I think a lot of people on this forum don't have the information requested.
unfortunately, we have purchased equipment for which the korg company has not communicated sufficient information.
Normally, we have the right to know the ROM size and the maximum number of samples supported by Korg PA and must be available in the user manual.
greetings
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DELLRACHIDO
Joined: 01 Jan 2020
Posts: 42
Location: Morrocco
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| Posted: Mon Feb 17, 2020 11:15 am Post subject: Re: ROM size & Maximum number samples of Korg Pa4x-Pa100 |
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| musiccankill wrote: | | DELLRACHIDO wrote: | HELLO
Can someone tell us the actual size of the ROM and the maximum number of samples (sounds and drumkits) from Pa4x as well as other korg from the Pa series?
We have searched all Korg Pa series user manuals. Unfortunately, no information is communicated by KORG and only the size of the RAM that is communicated.
* Korg pa600 =
Ram : 96MB
Rom : 256Mb
Max number of samples: ???
* Korg pa900 =
Ram : 192MB
Rom : 512Mb
Max number of samples: ???
* Korg pa3x =
Ram : 256MB
Rom : 256Mb (512Mb compressed into 256)
Max number of samples: ???
* Korg pa700 =
Ram : 128MB
Rom : ~1.1Gb
Max number of samples: ???
* Korg pa1000 =
Ram : 300MB
Rom : no info yet
Max number of samples: ???
* Korg pa4x =
Ram : 1.5GB Ram
Rom : >5Gb
Max number of samples: ???
Cdt |
I added in bold the factory library sizes.I only have no info for pa1000 yet.
To add one more model : Pa3x LE has 576Mb ROM (i guess it has better piano samples but haven't confirmed that) |
Hello
Is his information verified? because I think there is a confusion between RAM and ROM. for example :
Korg pa900 = Rom: 512Mb ???
Korg pa3x = Rom: 256Mb (512Mb compressed into 256) ???
It is impossible that the Pa900 has a ROM higher than Pa3x !!!!
For the Pa1000, on the Pa1000 Or mg version which is marketed by Music gear in lebanon, the company announced that the new Pa1000 Gold MG has 6.5 GB at the ROM level and can support up to 26,870 samples (sound + drum kits).
This lack of ROM size and maximum number of samples supported by the PA series is a major problem.
For example, since the release of the NEXT version on the Pa4x, the size of the RAM reserved for USER DATA has increased to 1.5 GB instead of 400Mb. but the maximum number of samples supported was not communicated. therefore, many users cannot exceed more than 600Mb of RAM on the Pa4X because of the limit of the number of samples which is approximately 21000 samples for my case (sound + drumkits).
On another forum I found that for:
- Pa3x, the maximum number of samples is 12672 sound and drumkits not communicated.
- Pa4x, the maximum number of samples:
OS v1 with RAM 400MB: 12672 sound samples only and drum kits not communicated
OS v2 with RAM 400MB: 15048 sound samples only and drum kits not communicated
OS v3 (Next) with 1.5 GB RAM: 15048 sound samples only and drum kits not communicated.
This ambiguity and non-transparency on the part of Korg is really worrying. this is why, I posted this subject in order to open a debate and to share information between the users of KORG PA.
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musiccankill
Platinum Member
Joined: 30 May 2010
Posts: 884
Location: Greece
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| Posted: Mon Feb 17, 2020 12:37 pm Post subject: Re: ROM size & Maximum number samples of Korg Pa4x-Pa100 |
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| DELLRACHIDO wrote: |
Hello
Is his information verified? because I think there is a confusion between RAM and ROM. for example :
Korg pa900 = Rom: 512Mb ???
Korg pa3x = Rom: 256Mb (512Mb compressed into 256) ???
It is impossible that the Pa900 has a ROM higher than Pa3x !!!!
For the Pa1000, on the Pa1000 Or mg version which is marketed by Music gear in lebanon, the company announced that the new Pa1000 Gold MG has 6.5 GB at the ROM level and can support up to 26,870 samples (sound + drum kits).
This lack of ROM size and maximum number of samples supported by the PA series is a major problem.
For example, since the release of the NEXT version on the Pa4x, the size of the RAM reserved for USER DATA has increased to 1.5 GB instead of 400Mb. but the maximum number of samples supported was not communicated. therefore, many users cannot exceed more than 600Mb of RAM on the Pa4X because of the limit of the number of samples which is approximately 21000 samples for my case (sound + drumkits).
On another forum I found that for:
- Pa3x, the maximum number of samples is 12672 sound and drumkits not communicated.
- Pa4x, the maximum number of samples:
OS v1 with RAM 400MB: 12672 sound samples only and drum kits not communicated
OS v2 with RAM 400MB: 15048 sound samples only and drum kits not communicated
OS v3 (Next) with 1.5 GB RAM: 15048 sound samples only and drum kits not communicated.
This ambiguity and non-transparency on the part of Korg is really worrying. this is why, I posted this subject in order to open a debate and to share information between the users of KORG PA. |
It is the same size in pa900 and pa3x when converted to 16bit wave it is just they used compression on pa3x and not used compression on pa900 which does not support it.
Pa3x uses older generation hardware (very close to pa2x/800) while any keyboard released after pa3x (pa900 is one of them) uses newer generation which can handle more ram than the older generation ( pa900 has a total of 1Gb of ram like pa4x/pa1000/pa3xle which is splitted for the different uses (rom/ram/efx/system) ).
Yes the information are verified because i have all the rom files i posted the size of ( i can't share any files as they are copyrighted material and if korg wanted them to be shared they would have let them open to public )
About the max no. of samples allowed i haven't researched it as it has no use for me but according to calculations, 15048 (152 samples in each of the 99 pcm files) could be correct while 12672 (128samples (signed int variable for those who know a bit about programming) in each of the 99 pcm files) seems correct for the older generations and OS versions of pa4x.
In os v3 (NEXT) for 4x i believe (unless i miss something as i don't have any insight on the source code) that it is possible to make it up to unsigned int (256 samples in each of the 99 pcm files) which leads to 25344 samples maximum without major changes in the os structure.
The number 26870 doesn't seem correct as it leads to 271,4141414141.. samples in each file which is not possible (you can't have half a sample) except if they changed the variable to short or something else and this is a soft limit (like the 15048 which seems to be a soft limit too while 25344 is a hard limit with the current structure)
Sorry for the long and technical post.Please ask questions (or ignore it if you wish) if you can't understand something!
_________________
~~~The best keyboard for any player is the one that fits his/her needs!~~~
Korg keyboards owned now: PA5X 61 ,PA300, Triton extreme 61, Korg 707, Trinity plus |
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DELLRACHIDO
Joined: 01 Jan 2020
Posts: 42
Location: Morrocco
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| Posted: Mon Feb 17, 2020 2:25 pm Post subject: Re: ROM size & Maximum number samples of Korg Pa4x-Pa100 |
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[quote="musiccankill"] | DELLRACHIDO wrote: |
It is the same size in pa900 and pa3x when converted to 16bit wave it is just they used compression on pa3x and not used compression on pa900 which does not support it.
Pa3x uses older generation hardware (very close to pa2x/800) while any keyboard released after pa3x (pa900 is one of them) uses newer generation which can handle more ram than the older generation ( pa900 has a total of 1Gb of ram like pa4x/pa1000/pa3xle which is splitted for the different uses (rom/ram/efx/system) ).
Yes the information are verified because i have all the rom files i posted the size of ( i can't share any files as they are copyrighted material and if korg wanted them to be shared they would have let them open to public )
About the max no. of samples allowed i haven't researched it as it has no use for me but according to calculations, 15048 (152 samples in each of the 99 pcm files) could be correct while 12672 (128samples (signed int variable for those who know a bit about programming) in each of the 99 pcm files) seems correct for the older generations and OS versions of pa4x.
In os v3 (NEXT) for 4x i believe (unless i miss something as i don't have any insight on the source code) that it is possible to make it up to unsigned int (256 samples in each of the 99 pcm files) which leads to 25344 samples maximum without major changes in the os structure.
The number 26870 doesn't seem correct as it leads to 271,4141414141.. samples in each file which is not possible (you can't have half a sample) except if they changed the variable to short or something else and this is a soft limit (like the 15048 which seems to be a soft limit too while 25344 is a hard limit with the current structure)
Sorry for the long and technical post.Please ask questions (or ignore it if you wish) if you can't understand something! |
Thank you for the information shared.
1- I need more data concerning your analysis:
"" The number 26870 doesn't seem correct as it leads to 271,4141414141 .. samples in each file which is not possible (you can't have half a sample) except if they changed the variable to short or something else and this is a soft limit (like the 15048 which seems to be a soft limit too while 25344 is a hard limit with the current structure) ""
2- Regarding Pa4x with OS Next v3.1.0, according to your opinion, why did Korg not increase the maximum number of samples supported?
3- For the pa1000 Gold MG and the 26870 samples and 6.5 Gb of ROM announced by the company Music Gear in Leban, does not understand the logic of the Korg company to give Pa1000 a capacity more than the Pa4X? Note that I personally contacted the manager of this company in Leban (Jack Syriani) and confirmed his information to me !!!
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musiccankill
Platinum Member
Joined: 30 May 2010
Posts: 884
Location: Greece
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| Posted: Mon Feb 17, 2020 3:36 pm Post subject: Re: ROM size & Maximum number samples of Korg Pa4x-Pa100 |
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| DELLRACHIDO wrote: |
Thank you for the information shared.
1- I need more data concerning your analysis:
"" The number 26870 doesn't seem correct as it leads to 271,4141414141 .. samples in each file which is not possible (you can't have half a sample) except if they changed the variable to short or something else and this is a soft limit (like the 15048 which seems to be a soft limit too while 25344 is a hard limit with the current structure) ""
2- Regarding Pa4x with OS Next v3.1.0, according to your opinion, why did Korg not increase the maximum number of samples supported?
3- For the pa1000 Gold MG and the 26870 samples and 6.5 Gb of ROM announced by the company Music Gear in Leban, does not understand the logic of the Korg company to give Pa1000 a capacity more than the Pa4X? Note that I personally contacted the manager of this company in Leban (Jack Syriani) and confirmed his information to me !!! |
1)As you may have seen , when you save a set, inside the PCM folder there are 99 pcm files named RAM01.PCM to RAM99.PCM.
These files include the samples you have loaded.
When the number was 12.672 , it was exactly 128 samples in each file which is the maximum number a single byte can accept when the variable is signed (if we go deeper into computers and hex numbers, 1 byte = 8bits and the maximum number you can count in 8 bits is 0 to 256 (when unsigned) or -127 to 127 (when signed) ).
So as the number matches (99 * 128 = 12672 .I say 128 cause it is 0 based ,meaning that the first sample has position 0 not 1) i guess it is a signed variable programming wise.
To make this number higher (more samples in each pcm file) you either have to use more bytes (needs a lot of work in the operating system to handle this change) or make the variable unsigned (but still 1 byte) and so double the available space (as you can't have negative samples loaded lol you don't have to have it signed anyway and maybe it never was and it was always a soft limit).This still needs some work but it is way easier...
Lets now do the same maths with the other numbers...
15048 when divided with 99 (the number of files) gives 152 samples in each file which is <256 (the max) but higher than 128 (so it seems they changed it to unsigned and set the soft limit to 152 instead of 256 except if i m missing something which i can in any way know without looking at the source code which of course is not available).
Now with the other number about MG , it doesn't make sense as it is not even a perfectly dividable with 99 (the no of files again) number..Also it is bigger than 256 samples per file so it is even less possible without bigger modifications.
2)My opinion is that they thought is not important and they may increase it in the next version ..For me for example it is not important at all..The extra ram helped me very much to have full/natural release samples (instead of looped ones) for way higher quality and better sounding natural sounds.
I will never use more than 7000 samples in any situation.Currently i have less than 2500 samples and ~1.3Gb (compressed) of ram occupied so i m close to the limit.
3)As i said on answer 1,the 26k announced (haven't seen the announcement myself) doesn't make sense as it is more that 1 byte which is not supported with the current structure.Maybe they worked to change it..
Music Gear does way too many modifications to their custom keyboards and they are way more closed than the normal version of the keyboard which is sold worldwide..For example they had Pa4x MG ,then release MG2 (different keyboard not update to the old) and they left the owners of MG1 without even the updates of the latest official korg os versions.
In my opinion korg changes the OS according to Music Gear needs because they must be making a really big order of keyboards to get what they ask for..
6.5Gb of ROM is possible as the pa4x is like that too (1Gb less but i remember there is space left).Still you will never know if it really has 6.5Gb or not without the files at hand so they can claim whatever they want as these files will never become public and there is currently no way to find them without internal info and tools...
The normal PA1000 is an original korg keyboard.
The MG version is a music gear keyboard made by korg according to their requests from what i have seen and that is a secure guess as all mg keyboards are not even listed in the korg.com website...
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~~~The best keyboard for any player is the one that fits his/her needs!~~~
Korg keyboards owned now: PA5X 61 ,PA300, Triton extreme 61, Korg 707, Trinity plus |
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DELLRACHIDO
Joined: 01 Jan 2020
Posts: 42
Location: Morrocco
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| Posted: Mon Feb 17, 2020 6:32 pm Post subject: Re: ROM size & Maximum number samples of Korg Pa4x-Pa100 |
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1)As you may have seen , when you save a set, inside the PCM folder there are 99 pcm files named RAM01.PCM to RAM99.PCM.
These files include the samples you have loaded.
When the number was 12.672 , it was exactly 128 samples in each file which is the maximum number a single byte can accept when the variable is signed (if we go deeper into computers and hex numbers, 1 byte = 8bits and the maximum number you can count in 8 bits is 0 to 256 (when unsigned) or -127 to 127 (when signed) ).
So as the number matches (99 * 128 = 12672 .I say 128 cause it is 0 based ,meaning that the first sample has position 0 not 1) i guess it is a signed variable programming wise.
To make this number higher (more samples in each pcm file) you either have to use more bytes (needs a lot of work in the operating system to handle this change) or make the variable unsigned (but still 1 byte) and so double the available space (as you can't have negative samples loaded lol you don't have to have it signed anyway and maybe it never was and it was always a soft limit).This still needs some work but it is way easier...
Lets now do the same maths with the other numbers...
15048 when divided with 99 (the number of files) gives 152 samples in each file which is <256 (the max) but higher than 128 (so it seems they changed it to unsigned and set the soft limit to 152 instead of 256 except if i m missing something which i can in any way know without looking at the source code which of course is not available).
Now with the other number about MG , it doesn't make sense as it is not even a perfectly dividable with 99 (the no of files again) number..Also it is bigger than 256 samples per file so it is even less possible without bigger modifications.
2)My opinion is that they thought is not important and they may increase it in the next version ..For me for example it is not important at all..The extra ram helped me very much to have full/natural release samples (instead of looped ones) for way higher quality and better sounding natural sounds.
I will never use more than 7000 samples in any situation.Currently i have less than 2500 samples and ~1.3Gb (compressed) of ram occupied so i m close to the limit.
3)As i said on answer 1,the 26k announced (haven't seen the announcement myself) doesn't make sense as it is more that 1 byte which is not supported with the current structure.Maybe they worked to change it..
Music Gear does way too many modifications to their custom keyboards and they are way more closed than the normal version of the keyboard which is sold worldwide..For example they had Pa4x MG ,then release MG2 (different keyboard not update to the old) and they left the owners of MG1 without even the updates of the latest official korg os versions.
In my opinion korg changes the OS according to Music Gear needs because they must be making a really big order of keyboards to get what they ask for..
6.5Gb of ROM is possible as the pa4x is like that too (1Gb less but i remember there is space left).Still you will never know if it really has 6.5Gb or not without the files at hand so they can claim whatever they want as these files will never become public and there is currently no way to find them without internal info and tools...
The normal PA1000 is an original korg keyboard.
The MG version is a music gear keyboard made by korg according to their requests from what i have seen and that is a secure guess as all mg keyboards are not even listed in the korg.com website...[/quote]
Thank you for the additional information.
Regarding Pa4x, I think Korg should increase the maximum number of samples for two main reasons:
1- Allow users to exploit the Ram capacity of 1.5 Gb;
2- Support the Pa4x so that it is at the Top after the marketing of the Pa1000 Gold Mg which has a capacity of the Rom and the maximum number of samples greater than the Pa4x. Something that is not normal with regard to the price of Pa4x. what you should also know is that in the middle east, Pa4x users are disappointed after the release of Pa1000 Or MG with all its capabilities.
Music gear uses the notoriety of the korg company to market Korg products, but it does not support them with updates (example of the pa4x Mg1 which remained at version V3.0.1 and probably Mg2 after the release of Pa1000 or mg)
Therefore, the KORG company can increase the capacities of Pa4x with a simple update and can also impose on its partners to respect a commercial and service charter after unified sale !!!
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Randelph
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Joined: 18 Oct 2008
Posts: 604
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| Posted: Mon Feb 17, 2020 7:03 pm Post subject: |
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Speaking of the MG version of the Pa1000 and Pa4X: has anyone bought from them or know more? Their website is a joke. You'd think that for people with a pricey product they would want to have a ton of pictures and explanation of what they're offering that goes beyond the stock boards.
And what is Korg doing for them? Yes, I would think they would have to have a big order if Korg is changing the front panel and memory.
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musiccankill
Platinum Member
Joined: 30 May 2010
Posts: 884
Location: Greece
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| Posted: Mon Feb 17, 2020 11:20 pm Post subject: Re: ROM size & Maximum number samples of Korg Pa4x-Pa100 |
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| DELLRACHIDO wrote: |
Thank you for the additional information.
Regarding Pa4x, I think Korg should increase the maximum number of samples for two main reasons:
1- Allow users to exploit the Ram capacity of 1.5 Gb;
2- Support the Pa4x so that it is at the Top after the marketing of the Pa1000 Gold Mg which has a capacity of the Rom and the maximum number of samples greater than the Pa4x. Something that is not normal with regard to the price of Pa4x. what you should also know is that in the middle east, Pa4x users are disappointed after the release of Pa1000 Or MG with all its capabilities.
Music gear uses the notoriety of the korg company to market Korg products, but it does not support them with updates (example of the pa4x Mg1 which remained at version V3.0.1 and probably Mg2 after the release of Pa1000 or mg)
Therefore, the KORG company can increase the capacities of Pa4x with a simple update and can also impose on its partners to respect a commercial and service charter after unified sale !!! |
You can still fill the entire memory by using lengthy samples but i agree that they should make it at least the maximum possible without too much recoding.
As you said and i agree given what i am reading, mg users are mostly disappointed .
The keyboards are locked ( i have heard that there is not even midi out to prevent copying but have never seen one in person to confirm ) , many features are different and other strange things...
Also do you know the price of the pa1000mg? According to their webpage it is 2500$ which is closer to normal pa4x than normal pa1000 lol...
I wouldn't spend that amount for a locked down version with major possibility that the updates will stop before the end of product life of normal pa1000 and so it will not get all the fixes and maybe not be compatible with any other normal pa1000 (in case normal pa1000 gets the NEXT update and so gets more ram through the streaming route as pa4x got).
That is my opinion of course.
_________________
~~~The best keyboard for any player is the one that fits his/her needs!~~~
Korg keyboards owned now: PA5X 61 ,PA300, Triton extreme 61, Korg 707, Trinity plus |
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