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2 identical Microkorg to increase polyphony

 
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syevad



Joined: 27 Aug 2020
Posts: 15

PostPosted: Mon Sep 28, 2020 10:01 am    Post subject: 2 identical Microkorg to increase polyphony Reply with quote

I'm toying with the idea of using 2 identical Microkorg (original) with some MIDI patchbay to increase poliphony (8 instead of 4).

Logically it is just a question of finding a way to assign MK(1) to channel 1 and MK(2) to channel 2 and set a "command" via Midi to switch channels 1 to 2 continously for each note - that way using a controller I can play both and enjoying a polyphony of 8 notes.

Any thought?
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OpAmp
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Joined: 07 Jun 2013
Posts: 1173
Location: Brussels, BE

PostPosted: Mon Sep 28, 2020 6:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi,

Your idea is not bad. Configuring both mK's to another MIDI channel is possible. Hower the mK's do not have a feature to toggle internally their MIDI channel per note that they receive. It would also not work that well e.g. when releasing a key. (Although not possible I think.)

More high end boards have sometimes a feature to listen to either the even or odd notes. So you can configure both on the same MIDI channel but one will respond to even notes, the other to odd notes.

In particular for your setup, you'll need some extra device or PC in between. Get some ideas here:
https://www.gearslutz.com/board/electronic-music-instruments-and-electronic-music-production/1159462-polyphonic-midi-voice-distribution-pc.html

Have fun.
_________________
microKORGXL, Kaossilator Pro, monotribe, SQ-1, volca fm, Kross 88 BK
Alesis SR18, Akai Miniak, Fender Strat, Line 6 Spider II 112, Zoom MS-50G
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syevad



Joined: 27 Aug 2020
Posts: 15

PostPosted: Mon Sep 28, 2020 9:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The 2 MKs don't need to change their Midi Channel (as long they each have a unique channel) - the Midi Patchbay should do that...so, yes we need some external gear. I never used a patchbay but if they don't do this sort of tasks what are these for?
Your idea of using odd/even numbers isn't proper polyphony and depending on what chords you play it would be grossly reduced to 4!! Similarly with some ideas I gather from other discussions - eg. splitting the board in upper and lower...if one plays all notes on the top range you'll end up producing only 4 of them.

It seem there is a cable (which isn't just a cable) which does what I've described in my first post...
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syevad



Joined: 27 Aug 2020
Posts: 15

PostPosted: Tue Sep 29, 2020 8:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

This is the "cable" in question - which is in fact a sort of micro midi patchbay and can be coded to increase the polyphony using more than one synth...

https://www.retrokits.com/shop/rk002/

from the description - one can order this cable customized for the expected use (great stuff).

and probably there are also cheap midi patchbays which do the same...
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OpAmp
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Joined: 07 Jun 2013
Posts: 1173
Location: Brussels, BE

PostPosted: Tue Sep 29, 2020 8:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Indeed that is the cable. I remembered that there was one, but I could not remember what the brand was.

The idea about odd/even notes is not mine. You'll find it also on more high end boards with e.g. 64 voices or more, where it is less a problem that a chord may be built up by notes of only one type.

Anyway, I can not help you on patchbays which would do a distribution of notes or toggling the channel...

Good luck.
_________________
microKORGXL, Kaossilator Pro, monotribe, SQ-1, volca fm, Kross 88 BK
Alesis SR18, Akai Miniak, Fender Strat, Line 6 Spider II 112, Zoom MS-50G
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syevad



Joined: 27 Aug 2020
Posts: 15

PostPosted: Wed Sep 30, 2020 7:00 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Actually the even/odd notes might be referred to the order of notes being produced in time - so, it does make sense...(what was I thinking about?)

Midi Solutions has some interesting products - see the Event Processors (about mid-page):

http://www.midisolutions.com/applicat.htm

but there is an issue - the polythony with 2 MKs would be limited to 6 notes because they send actual Note Off (not Note On with value 0). If the 2 synths were able to TRANSMIT (not receive) Note value 0 (for note Off) then 8 notes polyphony is achieved.

then this guy seems to have the perfect solution:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aV2SV0dD7LI
The video doesn't give much clues - the device is probably a DIY product...
at the bottom of the discussion there is a link to get the code for Arduino (INO file).

Definitely worth a go
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samriccijr
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Joined: 01 Jan 2004
Posts: 114
Location: usa nj

PostPosted: Wed Oct 07, 2020 3:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

You could try an app like MidiFlow to map even or odd notes to each Microkorg.

You could also see if the Microkorg responds the MS2000 mode change and note receive Sysex strings ( I will check the output of my Microkorg later today, so these strings are unconfirmed):

Global Enable Sysex on the Microkorg

Change mode to global

F0 42 30 58 4E 02 00 F7

Change midi receive to all 00 even 01 odd 02 off 03 - unconfirmed

F0 42 30 58 41 10 00 90 01 F7 - I will check this on my ms2000

I guess that the Microkorg will ignore the is change.

We should petition Korg to add this feature to the Microkorg OS.....

Sam
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OpAmp
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Joined: 07 Jun 2013
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Location: Brussels, BE

PostPosted: Wed Oct 07, 2020 9:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi,

The mK does officially not support the odd/even mode.
But it is still worth to try the sysex messages, especially because the messages you pass have the device ID of the mK (58 ). Seems mK and MS2K share it. E.g. the mKXL uses another ID.

Have fun
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microKORGXL, Kaossilator Pro, monotribe, SQ-1, volca fm, Kross 88 BK
Alesis SR18, Akai Miniak, Fender Strat, Line 6 Spider II 112, Zoom MS-50G
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syevad



Joined: 27 Aug 2020
Posts: 15

PostPosted: Mon Oct 19, 2020 4:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

MidiFlow only on Iphone/Ipad - as usual we Android users are left behind regarding MIDI/Audio...(one of these days I'll get an IPad).

I know for a fact - the MicroKorg can be set to play only Even or Odds notes when this option is set on the MS2000 (as Master). So I'm not sure if this is the same as having the MK capable of reading this particular Sysex message...
Then if it does read it - one MK can act as a master and then we need to see if this sort of "midi splitter" function works or not.

In a week or so I should get a secong MK...let's see.

(best option probably would be to buy a MS2000 - so one gets a proper keyboard and lots of knobs some extra functions and double the polyphony with easy).
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syevad



Joined: 27 Aug 2020
Posts: 15

PostPosted: Mon Oct 19, 2020 8:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

samriccijr wrote:
You could try an app like MidiFlow to map even or odd notes to each Microkorg.

You could also see if the Microkorg responds the MS2000 mode change and note receive Sysex strings ( I will check the output of my Microkorg later today, so these strings are unconfirmed):

Global Enable Sysex on the Microkorg

Change mode to global

F0 42 30 58 4E 02 00 F7

Change midi receive to all 00 even 01 odd 02 off 03 - unconfirmed

F0 42 30 58 41 10 00 90 01 F7 - I will check this on my ms2000

I guess that the Microkorg will ignore the is change.

We should petition Korg to add this feature to the Microkorg OS.....

Sam


is this the message "F0 42 30 58 41 10 00 90 01 F7" supposed to tell the MK to used Even notes only? The one sent when you set the split function on the MS2000...
(btw: are you using the MS2000 as a master to split the notes with the MK? it might seem obvious but from your message it isn't clear).
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syevad



Joined: 27 Aug 2020
Posts: 15

PostPosted: Mon Oct 19, 2020 8:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

apparently the MK can read these special "Even/Odd split" messages...but I don't think it can send them to a second MK.

so, in order to obtain double polyphony with a MK or MS2000 these seems the available options:

1)MS2000 to MK (should work easily by setting the function in the MS2000's Global Settings.
2)MK to MK + specifically designed gear or smart cables (polymux) or software (so a PC or IPad is needed)
3)MS2000 rack version (to save cash) + MK (should work fine - get the knobs and a bigger and proper master keyboard).
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OpAmp
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Joined: 07 Jun 2013
Posts: 1173
Location: Brussels, BE

PostPosted: Tue Oct 20, 2020 8:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi,

I'm really curious whether the mK accepts and interprets the MS2K SysEx message to select either Odd or Even mode.

Were you able to proof that? I.e. did you send the message with e.g. a PC and witness that part of the keys do not work anymore?

I had a look to the mK and MS2K MIDI implementation docs.
* The mK officially does not support parameter change SysEx. (But it might be there and not documented)
* The global parameter MIDI table on both the mK and MS2K has 2 bits to choose the Note Receive mode. On the mK, only 0 (All notes) is mentioned. On the MS2K, 0/odd/even/off is mentioned. (Again it might be there in the mK but not documented)
* It looks to me on the MS2K that the Note receive mode can not be set with a parameter change, but should be part of a All-global-parameters message update. (Again I might be wrong, I don't have a mK or MS2K. Anyway on my mKXL, it is not possible to update one global parameter, without sending all of them at once.)
* I don't think setting the Note receive mode on the MS2K will transmit the SysEx Parameter change message, leave alone it will send the inverse of what you select (odd <> even) to put the other device in the opposite mode. So option 1 and 3 would then not work.


Keep experimenting!
_________________
microKORGXL, Kaossilator Pro, monotribe, SQ-1, volca fm, Kross 88 BK
Alesis SR18, Akai Miniak, Fender Strat, Line 6 Spider II 112, Zoom MS-50G
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