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Ways of working with combos and setlists live

 
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V-man
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Joined: 18 Aug 2020
Posts: 73
Location: Umeå, Sweden

PostPosted: Fri Sep 11, 2020 8:32 am    Post subject: Ways of working with combos and setlists live Reply with quote

Hi, does anyone have any suggestions which is the best, or most efficient way to work with switching of setlists and combos during live play in the below scenarios? Would be interesting to hear from others how you tackle different scenarios and how you handle switching and navigation (pedals, buttons etc.) depending on how your keyboard rig is set up.

1. Playing a song where there is only two combinations of sounds during the entire song, one single piano sound (for intro and verse) and same piano sound together with a sting/pad sound (for bridge and chorus). This same combination can also be used in several songs.

2. Playing a more complex song that have say five different sound combinations that I need to alter between during the song.

Additional considerations that can affect the choice of workflow is if there is a one-tier or two-tier keyboard rig. Thinking about how to utilize the set up in the most efficient way. Thinking also about re-use of combos and programs to avoid redundancy.
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geoelectro
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Joined: 14 Sep 2012
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Location: Texas

PostPosted: Fri Sep 11, 2020 1:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

For number one I use a volume pedal. My main sound is a piano with a pad. The pad is controlled with the pedal so I can fade it in or out as needed. The piano is not controlled by the pedal so it always plays.

I use two keyboards with my Kronos 61. That way, I can spread sounds over a large area as needed. I also recommend the NanoPad. I use it as well to trigger chords or notes that drone etc. It can address sounds on different MIDI channels which don't play on the keyboards. That way, you can have access to more sounds without using any keyboard space.

In combi's, You can alter the programs to a significant degree with the Tone Adjust page. This way, a program can be used in many different combi's and sound different as needed without altering the actual program.

I've only rarely used more than one setlist slot per song. Maybe only once..

Geo
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toeti



Joined: 18 Sep 2012
Posts: 37
Location: Herdecke

PostPosted: Sun Sep 13, 2020 12:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi,

I'm always in Setlist Mode.

1. I use one combi with the two sounds and an expression pedal to control the volume of the string/pad sound.

2. Same: I use a combi with the different sounds I need for the song. The expression pedal to control the volume of one or more sounds.
If I have to alter the sounds in the song, I'll use the Karma function to the change between different sound sets within the combination.

And: I'm using only the 73 Kronos!

Thorsten
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Arizona Sage
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Joined: 10 Mar 2014
Posts: 174
Location: Arizona, Earth

PostPosted: Mon Sep 14, 2020 6:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hey there,

Live I'm always in Setlist Mode as well. I have an 88 key

If a song is too complex for a simple split to handle, I just create different combis for various sections of the song and then arrange them in the setlist so I can simply advance through them with a foot pedal. I have some songs that have upwards of 8-10 combis. Never had a problem with it. For me, it just seems easier to create the sounds you want independent of sliders and knobs during a live show. Keeps both hands on the keys. I also apply different colors to each song (or part of a song) as a visual aid while performing.

I use a Nanopad for things I need and use my left hand for that while still having the right hand available for lead lines, etc. For example, I play guitar on many songs as well as keys. Jesse's Girl bridge. Left hand is cycling through the 3 chord stabs on the Nano while i'm chugging an open G chord on the guitar. Another example: Night Fever by the Bee Gees. I find it much easier to play the main string chords on the Nano Pad, leaving the right hand free to play the single string lines.

The Kronos is a game changer for me. I'm sure many others do things differently but that's the beauty of it.

Kevin
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Mersip
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Joined: 30 Aug 2009
Posts: 84

PostPosted: Wed Sep 16, 2020 1:01 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I do the same as Arizona.

I have two keyboards, use an expression pedal to add or fade sounds (eg strings), and a foot switch to move up through the Setlist during songs. We like to do complete albums end-to-end, so something like Dark Side of the Moon has 11 Setlist slots using Combis and Songs. The ability of the Kronos to hold the sound when you switch up to the next Setlist slot makes for a seamless transition and is fantastic.

I also activate different Timbres during a song when in Combi mode where the changes work, but most of the time I'll move up to the next Setlist sloy.

I also use chord charts and include notes to indicate where I need to turn Timbres on or off, or change to the next Setlist slot.

I use the Forescore app on my iPad to store the charts (loading them as PDFs). Each chart has a midi code associated with it which puts the Kronos onto the right Setlist slot. This gives flexibility in a live situation, and means I only have to change one thing (the chart) and the keyboard changes to the correct slot.
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V-man
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Joined: 18 Aug 2020
Posts: 73
Location: Umeå, Sweden

PostPosted: Mon Feb 22, 2021 3:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Picking up this thread again with a follow-up question. This regarding the use of a volume pedal, as I can se a lot of you guys use.

I wonder how you handle the issue with midi volume? I mean, if I have a piano sound layered with a pad- or string sound that I want to fade in and out. Often you don't want to go all the way to the midi volume value of 127 for the pad/string sound. You may only want this sound to be maximum value of lets say between 40-60. But when you are in the midst of a live performance I feel that It would be good to be able to fade in a sound moving the pedal from the lowest position to the highest and not spend precious time on evaluating if I've moved the pedal up for like 2/5ths of the way. ...if you understand what I'm grasping for here? I want to prevent the pad/string sound from ever go above, lets say midi volume = 50, but when I'm in a hurry in a live situation I may not have time to have that precision with my foot to position the pedal in the exact level. I just want to fade in the sound by moving the pedal to max at the same time as the sound volume need to stay at a less high level than the piano sound.

Is the only way to achieve this to actually set and save the master volume value of the program itself to a low value so that even if you press the volume pedal to max position (midi vol 127) the sound that you fade in can never be to loud??
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tunaman
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Joined: 28 Nov 2019
Posts: 427

PostPosted: Mon Feb 22, 2021 10:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

To answer the original question - I work exclusively in Setlist mode, and I use the faders to bring in different timbres and volumes most of the time.

I will add a note to the Comments indicating the initial state of the faders (ie Up Dn Dn Up) so that I can set them up correctly before we start playing.
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KingKronos
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Joined: 02 Jan 2021
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 23, 2021 1:35 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

On the vector volume page you can set the max volume for each instrument when the VJS is in the center. Of course you can also set it up so that you a variety of blends. The VJS is a hidden gem.

If you want to set max volume using the foot pedal approach, you will need to go into each instrument's amp mod page and assign the amount there.
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Mersip
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Joined: 30 Aug 2009
Posts: 84

PostPosted: Tue Feb 23, 2021 7:05 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The way I do this is to use an Expression foot pedal through an Effect.

By way of an example, let’s say I’m playing a flute sound and want to add a xylophone during one section (ie Jethro Tull Thick as a Brick). The Combi has the flute and Xylophone on Timbres 1 and 2 respectively.

Add a Stereo Limiter (or similar) to the Xylophone effect’s chain. Make Source the Foot Pedal. For this setting, let’s assume you want no xylophone sound when the expression pedal is off. In the Output section, Set the Wet/Dry to Wet, set Amount to -100. Set Gain Adjust to -Inf. There should now be no xylophone if the pedal is up, and full sound when the pedal is down.

You can set the maximum volume in two ways. The easiest is simply to adjust the Volume setting on the first Control Panel (P0) for the xylophone Timbre (for example down to 80). When the pedal is On, the maximum volume will be 80.

Alternatively, you can set the Output Amount in the Stereo Limiter Effect to give you less maximum volume (eg -60 in this example).

Both of these should work. There may well be an easier way, but I use the Stereo Limiter a lot as a way of either bringing in sounds, dropping sounds, or morphing from ones sound to another (eg piano transitions to organ).
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drama1
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Joined: 04 Apr 2007
Posts: 662

PostPosted: Tue Feb 23, 2021 2:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

You're making it way too complicated. Just do this with Karma scene buttons. It's demo'd on an M3, but it's the same with a Kronos.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AqdZfOqq5Aw
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samriccijr
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Joined: 01 Jan 2004
Posts: 114
Location: usa nj

PostPosted: Tue Feb 23, 2021 10:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi V-man!

The answers are all right answers. It just depends on how you like to call up sounds.


You can create one Combi having a Piano program in track 1 and the strings in track 3 (and an ep in track 2 and brass in track 4 and organ in track 5 and lead in track 6 and drums in track 10 like I have). Set the sliders and controls to Timbre/Track Mode. You can turn any combination of tracks on and off using the top row of buttons (Mix Play/ Mute). The drawback is you have switch the controls to RTC/Karma if you want to adjust filter or effects.

You can use the M3 Karma youtube tutorial to assign each group of tracks to a Karma scene. The drawback is you have to add another programming step (to assign the tracks to Karma scenes).

Or you can save each grouping of sounds and real time controls as a separate program or combi. You load them all into a setlist. Then you just pick your program from the setlist. This is the easiest way..

Have fun! Sam
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