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How newer and high specs keybs could sound worse? ps60<m5

 
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K.Oz



Joined: 08 Dec 2020
Posts: 11

PostPosted: Tue Dec 08, 2020 11:59 pm    Post subject: How newer and high specs keybs could sound worse? ps60<m5 Reply with quote

Hi, Iīm new to the forum and a researcher of korg products for the last months. After reading a lot, seens like a consensus what I asked above, then I ask again:

How could a newer, higher specs, like rom and ram, keyb sounds worse?

I mean, I am thinking about getting a ps60, then I started to read the forums to find some info and comparison about the samples, and what I find is info like:

"m50 is way better sounds, even than kross and krome", "extreme is even better than m50, m3, and krome".

So, I know is some NEW ENTRY LEVEL vs OLD TOP, but, letīs take smartphones, any newer entry is way better than an old top, how could this not be the same about electronic keyboards?

The ps60 has the new kross eds-i, way more sample rom per program, 160mb of pcm but with few sounds, how could it sound worse than M50 and Extreme? Thanks for your time and insights in advance.
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K.Oz



Joined: 08 Dec 2020
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 09, 2020 9:06 am    Post subject: my actual need is hiw to choose Reply with quote

Actually, I can get one of those: M50, Kross or Ps60 for about the same price, I really do not need the workst functions, just the better sounds, polyphony and layer vapabiloties I could get.

Some topic I have read says is mid lvl works, m50, against entry lv synths, but these are newer and have higher sample rom, if you consider the amount of sounds. So, what should I get? Is there a mid lv synth only?
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Musicwithharry
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 09, 2020 2:03 pm    Post subject: Re: my actual need is hiw to choose Reply with quote

K.Oz wrote:
Actually, I can get one of those: M50, Kross or Ps60 for about the same price, I really do not need the workst functions, just the better sounds, polyphony and layer vapabiloties I could get.

Some topic I have read says is mid lvl works, m50, against entry lv synths, but these are newer and have higher sample rom, if you consider the amount of sounds. So, what should I get? Is there a mid lv synth only?


The PS60 is basically a re-packaged Microstation. The EDS-i system is pretty much the same between the two and they both had 49 Mb of sample ROM. The PS60 used a different approach as a performance based synth that actually worked pretty well because of the immediacy of being able to layer sounds on the fly and make changes. I had one for a time and it worked pretty well. I ended up selling it because I went a different direction with my live rig.

I still own an M50 and it is really good, still today. It is my main synth for leads in my live rig and I have written entire albums using the M50 as the main sound source and Sequencer. It features 256 Mb of ROM and it basically has the same ROM that the original M3 had (before they offered the expanded ROM package for the M3).

Regarding some people saying that the M50 would sound better than the Krome of Kronos, I am not sure about that. I know that people have their own tastes, but even the Krome has almost 4 Gb of ROM, which clearly outclasses the M50. The Krome is the updated M50, in my opinion.

The Kronos is the flagship and outclasses anything that Korg has ever produced. It outclasses the OASYS with its sound engines and updated internals (although MANY feel that the physical build of the OASYS is still superior, and I would agree with that).

The Kross would be superior to the Microstation and I would also say that as far as features go, it is better than the PS60. Even the original Kross 1 would have outclassed the PS60 in terms of sounds and features. Keep in mind that the PS60 was a performance board and the Kross was/is a workstation.

Having owned the PS60 and a current owner of 4 Kross synths, I can say that the Kross would work better and works just fine as a performance keyboard. Yes, there is more setup involved, but it is worth it.

I am not aware of a performance-only synth from Korg in that regard. If you are not looking for all of the features, maybe the new i3 may work. It is a workstation, but also acts as a performance board that you can layer up to three voices on the main sound and even split the keyboard for a 4th sound (in the lower section). You cannot program any new sounds for it and the sound engine is a bit dated, but I think that it sounds better than the Microstation (I owned two of these as well and currently own an i3) in my collection of synths.

Roland has their Juno DS series and Yamaha has the MODX series, that you can use as performance boards as well, but since you are here in the Korg Forum, I assume that you want to get a Korg. The Kross 2 is a formidable instrument worthy of a look. You may find all that you want in there, and it easily outclasses the PS60 and even the M50 in many areas.

Older flagship synths and mid-level synths are viable, and that is why I still have the M50. The piano sounds are better on the Kross 1 and Kross 2 than on the M50, but the EFX routing is better on the M50. There are also more controllers on the M50 than on the Kross synths.

I would invest some time watching videos on the units and listening to demos and see what sound the best to you. We here in the forum can help with just about anything when it comes to operation of these units Smile

Grace,
Harry
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K.Oz



Joined: 08 Dec 2020
Posts: 11

PostPosted: Wed Dec 09, 2020 2:54 pm    Post subject: Re: my actual need is hiw to choose Reply with quote

Thanks for your time!

Musicwithharry wrote:
The PS60 is basically a re-packaged Microstation. The EDS-i system is pretty much the same between the two and they both had 49 Mb of sample ROM.


Yes, the ps60 has 49mb, but a lot less sounds, so if you divide the rom among the sounds, it should have a bigger sample than M50, Kross and etc.

Musicwithharry wrote:
M50 It features 256 Mb of ROM and it basically has the same ROM that the original M3 had (before they offered the expanded ROM package for the M3).


Thatīs my point, the M3 with no expantion had 64mb, the M50 has 256, I know thereīs difference about the efx, but the sounds ony shoud be better, and yet, everybody say it a "compressed m3", how so?

Musicwithharry wrote:
Roland has their Juno DS series and Yamaha has the MODX series......I assume that you want to get a Korg. The Kross 2 is a formidable instrument worthy of a look. You may find all that you want in there, and it easily outclasses the PS60 and even the M50 in many areas.


I hate Roland, and Boss, Yamaha is a little pricy over here, I think I could get a MO8 for around the same as an M50 73, and my prefernce for Korg is dued to the layer possibiities, velocity, split and etc.

Musicwithharry wrote:
The piano sounds are better on the Kross 1 and Kross 2 than on the M50, but the EFX routing is better on the M50.


Thaīs a first time reading this, and thatīs my point of view based on the specs. You helped me a lot, let me borrow your thoughts and knowledge for a little bit more:

Considering the same price, Kross 61 is better than M50 73? In fact, the kross is U$ 100 less and I mean considering the sounds alone, I know both are capable of 16 layers/split and the arpeg and sequenc parts are not of my interest. one concern of mine is that m50 has a lot of issues, less frequents in the 73 version, but still.

Also, I would have no problem getting a yamah, as long as it could layer at least 8 sounds and has a price arount kross 1, if you know some models.

Thanks again, Jesus Bless you!
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Musicwithharry
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 09, 2020 5:37 pm    Post subject: Re: my actual need is hiw to choose Reply with quote

K.Oz wrote:
Thanks for your time!

Musicwithharry wrote:
The PS60 is basically a re-packaged Microstation. The EDS-i system is pretty much the same between the two and they both had 49 Mb of sample ROM.


Yes, the ps60 has 49mb, but a lot less sounds, so if you divide the rom among the sounds, it should have a bigger sample than M50, Kross and etc.

Musicwithharry wrote:
M50 It features 256 Mb of ROM and it basically has the same ROM that the original M3 had (before they offered the expanded ROM package for the M3).


Thatīs my point, the M3 with no expantion had 64mb, the M50 has 256, I know thereīs difference about the efx, but the sounds ony shoud be better, and yet, everybody say it a "compressed m3", how so?

Musicwithharry wrote:
Roland has their Juno DS series and Yamaha has the MODX series......I assume that you want to get a Korg. The Kross 2 is a formidable instrument worthy of a look. You may find all that you want in there, and it easily outclasses the PS60 and even the M50 in many areas.


I hate Roland, and Boss, Yamaha is a little pricy over here, I think I could get a MO8 for around the same as an M50 73, and my prefernce for Korg is dued to the layer possibiities, velocity, split and etc.

Musicwithharry wrote:
The piano sounds are better on the Kross 1 and Kross 2 than on the M50, but the EFX routing is better on the M50.


Thaīs a first time reading this, and thatīs my point of view based on the specs. You helped me a lot, let me borrow your thoughts and knowledge for a little bit more:

Considering the same price, Kross 61 is better than M50 73? In fact, the kross is U$ 100 less and I mean considering the sounds alone, I know both are capable of 16 layers/split and the arpeg and sequenc parts are not of my interest. one concern of mine is that m50 has a lot of issues, less frequents in the 73 version, but still.

Also, I would have no problem getting a yamah, as long as it could layer at least 8 sounds and has a price arount kross 1, if you know some models.

Thanks again, Jesus Bless you!


What I can tell you, from experience is that the PS60 sounded better than the Microstation in the piano department. Maybe they used a bit larger samples; I do not know.

With regard to the M3, my understanding is that the original model had 256 Mb of ROM and 64 Mb of RAM. The M50 had the same ROM engine the original M3 had, before the eXpanded ROM upgrade. In that upgrade, they included the new 4-way stereo piano. The M50 lacks this. The best piano on the M50 was a 3-way piano and there are differences. The pianos on the M50 are dull compared to the M3 upgraded piano sound.

It is hard to compare the M50-73 to the Kross 61. They have the same polyphony but there are more samples on the M50. If you are looking for piano sounds, then the Kross might be a better bet. It has a good EFX processor in it, but it is not as good as the M50's EFX processor. There are more options on the M50.

With regard to issues on the M50, I am not aware of any. I have had my M50 for a number of years and actually had two of them and sold one of them to a friend who uses it in her band. I program it for her and neither of us have experienced any issues with the machines. As far as I can tell, they are solid.

Your best bet is to listen to videos and demos of each and make a determination of which one would work the best for you. Gathering specs is great and certainly a good thing to do, but actually playing them is preferred. At worst, if you chose a unit from a music store, you have the option of taking it back if it does not work for you.

I am not versed enough in Yamaha equipment to make an educated choice, but the MOXF seems to be a good model, as is the MX series. They have the ability to layer as well, but they lack the Korg sound, which I do prefer (except for pianos - Yamaha does get that right). I had an MX49 for a time, but ended up returning it because I did not like the layout.

Grace,
Harry
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Last edited by Musicwithharry on Thu Dec 10, 2020 1:37 am; edited 1 time in total
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K.Oz



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PostPosted: Thu Dec 10, 2020 12:59 am    Post subject: some doubts Reply with quote

Musicwithharry wrote:


It is hard to compare the M50-73 to the Kross 61. They have the same polyphony but there are samples on the M50.


What do you mean with there are samples on the M50? I saw some video of someone putting samplesthrough usb and mapping in Kross, you can do the same with M50?


Checking the manuals of the M3, it says 64mb ram, plus the expansion, but what that means, that I can play samples of up to 64mb? Does the hard drive can load samples directly?

Thanks again, I narrowed my options better now!
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Musicwithharry
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 10, 2020 1:47 am    Post subject: Re: some doubts Reply with quote

K.Oz wrote:
Musicwithharry wrote:


It is hard to compare the M50-73 to the Kross 61. They have the same polyphony but there are samples on the M50.


What do you mean with there are samples on the M50? I saw some video of someone putting samplesthrough usb and mapping in Kross, you can do the same with M50?


Checking the manuals of the M3, it says 64mb ram, plus the expansion, but what that means, that I can play samples of up to 64mb? Does the hard drive can load samples directly?

Thanks again, I narrowed my options better now!


Thank you for pointing out my typo. I meant to say that there are MORE samples on the M50. I have corrected it in my initial post.

The M3 had 64 Mb of sample RAM, which is different than the ROM that came stock in the board. The RAM expander board added another 256 Mb of sample RAM, which is how you get to the 320 Mb of sample RAM on it.

If you search Sound On Sound for the M3, you will find their review. Adiditonally, you can also find their M50 review as well, and they go into detail about both synths. They also have a review of the Kross 2, if you are interested. I cannot find their review on the Kross 1, if they did one at all.

Grace,
Harry
_________________
Alesis Vortex Keytar, Alesis QS6.2, Alesis QSR, Alesis SR-16, Behringer Deepmind-12, Ensoniq Avista 7600, Ensoniq VFX, Ensoniq VFX-SD, Ensoniq SQ1+, (2) Ensoniq SQ-R+/32, Korg i3 (2020 Version), (2) Korg Kross 1-61, (2) Korg Kross 1-88, Korg Minilogue XD, Korg Minilogue XD Module, Korg M50-61, Korg PA700, Korg X5DR, Korg Z3, Kurzweil SP1, Lowrey EZP3 (bascially a Kawai), Roland D-05, Roland E-09, Waldorf Streichfett, Yamaha Reface CP, Yamaha Reface CS, Yamaha Reface DX, Yamaha Reface YC
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K.Oz



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PostPosted: Thu Dec 10, 2020 2:35 pm    Post subject: about kross2 Reply with quote

Sure, I think I read it already, I am very interested in Kross2, just the $$$ keeps me away for now!

The kross2 is a major example of what I am questioning or trying to understand. Kross 2 has 120 poyphony, sample rom of 128mb, same as Extreme and has now a library of Oasys sounds, just as kross 1 512 bonus sounds that includes trinity. I think it just can not use sample sounds over keys, just the pads, if I got it right.
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