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aichtaler
Joined: 12 Oct 2022
Posts: 5
Location: Aichtal, Germany
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 Posted: Sat May 13, 2023 10:41 am Post subject: Pa4X Int. - Lower sound muted during Intro 1 |
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Dear forum experts,
an "oldtimer" amateur is looking for your advice:
Is in this fantastic instrument a possibility available to avoid (switch of) muting of lower sound during intro 1 runtime ?
Couldn't find any hint - neither in manuals nor in www / forum !
Copying / moving intro 1 to intros 2 or 3 is not an option because the used style (purchased professional one) has already occupied both for interludes.
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Werner |
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korg1
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Joined: 17 Nov 2002
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Location: http://pasongstyles.com/
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| Posted: Sun May 14, 2023 1:53 pm Post subject: |
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Lower sound doesn't have anything to do with style itself or Cv's ,unless you mean something else.
kyeboard sets saved within a style ,might have lower sound muted.
All you have to do is resave the keyboard set with the lower sound on
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aichtaler
Joined: 12 Oct 2022
Posts: 5
Location: Aichtal, Germany
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| Posted: Mon May 15, 2023 11:43 am Post subject: |
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Thanks for your fast response !
Will try to explain the keyboards behavier with other words.
What I do is:
1. Select a Songbook Entry with 4 KbSets all with lower sound ON (organ).
2. Press and hold a lower cord and the lower sound appears.
3. Select INTRO1 and than press START button.
4. INTRO 1 starts and lower sound disappears immediately (button light still ON).
5. During INTRO 1 runtime no lower accompaniment is possible.
6. After INTRO 1 lower sound is back again for the selected VAR without any add. intervention.
The behavier may make sense for complex INTRO 1 programmings where no
lower keys are pressed. But not for simple INTROs like on INTRO 2+3 but stored on INTRO 1.
Seems that there is something "hardwired" in the machine (OS) that always drops lower sound during INTRO 1 runtime. It's also valid for Factory Styles I tried.
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Werner |
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steve350
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Joined: 27 Mar 2003
Posts: 236
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| Posted: Mon May 15, 2023 2:51 pm Post subject: |
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| You can go into the EQ section and raise the highs, mids, and lower freq. That will make the lower sound louder. I had the same problem with some strings. |
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karmathanever
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Joined: 12 Jan 2004
Posts: 10404
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| Posted: Mon May 15, 2023 4:35 pm Post subject: |
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| aichtaler wrote: | The behavier may make sense for complex INTRO 1 programmings where no
lower keys are pressed. But not for simple INTROs like on INTRO 2+3 but stored on INTRO 1.
Seems that there is something "hardwired" in the machine (OS) that always drops lower sound during INTRO 1 runtime. It's also valid for Factory Styles I tried. |
This is the way all the i-series and PA series are designed.
INTRO1 is like a fixed sequence - playing chords (other than the initial chord to start it) makes little sense and will generally mess up the INTRO
you start off INTRO1 by playing a chord - INTRO1 will play its "sequence" usually with several chord changes - holding down LOWER (if it worked) would produce a fixed chord over the INTRO hence messing with it. Trying to use INTRO1 like INTRO2 will never work - it is not designed to do that.
INTRO2 is fully flexible and acts like a VAR - you play the chords
INTRO3 is usually a short count-in measure (can of course be whatever you want) - you play the chords
So, trying to play a LOWER sound through any INTRO1 will never work
Hope this helps
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PA4X-76, Karma, WaveDrum GE, Fantom 8 EX
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aichtaler
Joined: 12 Oct 2022
Posts: 5
Location: Aichtal, Germany
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| Posted: Mon May 15, 2023 5:24 pm Post subject: |
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Understood, Pete ! Thanks for the clear statement.
Technical design is the show-stopper !
So I need to find circumvention for INTRO 1 of purchased (means EMC converted) professional styles.
Subject closed ! 
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Werner |
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karmathanever
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Joined: 12 Jan 2004
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| Posted: Tue May 16, 2023 1:01 am Post subject: |
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| aichtaler wrote: | Technical design is the show-stopper !
So I need to find circumvention for INTRO 1 of purchased (means EMC converted) professional styles. |
I am still puzzled about what you are wanting to achieve - as I read your posts I am assuming you want to play a fixed-sequence intro (INTRO1) but still be able to add LOWER sound chords of your choice but as said, INTRO1 is not designed to do that (exactly the same applies to ENDING1).
Saving an INTRO2/3 as INTRO1 does not change the INTRO1 design structure. If EMC conversion treats/expects INTROs 1-3 to react the same then EMC needs to be seriously reviewed. This INTRO/ENDING design was introduced in Korg's first arranger (i2) over 20 years ago. I hope you find a solution for your EMC styles - let us know how you go.
Pete
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aichtaler
Joined: 12 Oct 2022
Posts: 5
Location: Aichtal, Germany
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| Posted: Tue May 16, 2023 8:12 am Post subject: |
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Good morning (Germany), Pete.
What I do is pretty simple.
1. Bought a YAM style fr. Styles24 ("What's A Woman" fr. Vaya Con Dios)
2. Converted it fr. YAM Tyros to KORG Pa4X with EMC StyleWorks.
3. With little tweaking (sounds, effects, EQ etc.) in Pa4X it works well (for my old ears 
This style consists of:
- 4 variations.
- + 2 interludes (Brass, Organ) considered as VAR 5+6 placed on Pa4X in INTRO 2+3 by StyleWorks.
- Intro 3 (free played on YAM Lower) placed on Intro 1 in Pa4X.
- Ending 3
In the past I played the INTRO 1 on a Hammond XK-1c (lower + upper sound) connected via Midi to Pa4X. It's now removed from my gear !
With that change, playing INTRO1 on Pa4X, the reported problem (lower mute) came up first time for me.
I've 1 option left:
Move an Interlude from INTRO 2 or 3 to BREAK and move INTRO 1 to either INTRO 2 or 3. Will try that sometime because the Intro Organ sound is a bit thin w/o lower chords !
But it's not a real hurdle in playing this nice peace of music on my Pa4X.
Thanks for your interest in my tiny "problem" and making my Korg PA knowledge a bit deeper
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Werner |
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siebenhirter
Platinum Member
Joined: 13 Oct 2011
Posts: 1844
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| Posted: Wed May 17, 2023 8:52 pm Post subject: Intro1/Ending1 with active Lower Sound |
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| aichtaler wrote: | ...
I've 1 option left:
Move an Interlude from INTRO 2 or 3 to BREAK and move INTRO 1 to either INTRO 2 or 3. Will try that sometime because the Intro Organ sound is a bit thin w/o lower chords ! .. |
Hello Werner,
as Pete also mentioned, intro1/ending1 are designed for to be used like fixed sequences.
Therefore in manuals of previous Pa-Arrangers Korg notes: To conform to Korg specifications, it is advisable to set the NTT to “No Transpose” on the Intro 1 and Ending 1.
*
With the Pa4x it is not necessary to move the Intro1 to other style elements, because that lower sound is suppressed by the automatic accompaniment during Intro1 - that depends on the area where chords are recognized.
Also no circumvention for Intro1 of purchased styles is necessary.
*
Solution 1 (recognition area upper):
To play Intro1 at the same time as Lower sounds works simply by activating SPLIT and setting the CHORD SCAN indicator to UPPER.
Now the style can be started either with the start/stop button or with the right hand via synchro start without the lower sounds being faded out.
Solution 2 (no Split = non dedicated Upper/Lower area):
Start Intro1 however you want (left hand / right hand / both / none), but user Upper3 instead Lower Sound with your left hand.
In the "Keyboard/Ensemble/Range" menu set Top Key/Bottom Key for Upper1 and Upper 2 above the split point and for Upper 3 set its Top/Bottom key below the split point.
Example: Split-Point (Global) set to F#3,
Bottom/Top Key Upper1/Upper2 set to F#3/C8
Bottom/Top Key Upper3 to A0 / F3
Split indicator: disable
Chord Scan indicator: Upper or Lower or both or nothing
Inactive split indicator allows you to play a sound in the left hand area without Lower Sound but with Upper3 and in the right keyboard area with Upper1/2 sounds.
To do this, you can start Intro1 with either the Start/Stop button or with Synchro (doesn't matter with Upper/Lower/both), but the left hand sound will not be muted during intro1 anymore.
PS: Also Split indicator is disabled the system takes into account the split point for chord scan, if start via synchro is preferred.
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kind regards
- siebenhirter, austria -
Interesting facts about styles and stylePlayer functions can be found at http: www.elmarherz.de |
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aichtaler
Joined: 12 Oct 2022
Posts: 5
Location: Aichtal, Germany
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| Posted: Fri May 19, 2023 10:16 am Post subject: |
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Thank you for the proposed solutions, Alfred !
Will keep them safe for future use.
For now moving (by copy function) Intro3 to Break (not used by the mentioned style) and Intro1 to Intro3 works pretty well for my playing 
No need to change songbook entry or kbd-sets, slight change in my leadsheet
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Werner |
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siebenhirter
Platinum Member
Joined: 13 Oct 2011
Posts: 1844
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| Posted: Thu Jun 15, 2023 9:51 pm Post subject: NO MUTING of LOWER during INTRO1 |
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| aichtaler wrote: | | .. moving (by copy function) Intro3 to Break (not used by the mentioned style) and Intro1 to Intro3 works pretty well for my playing :-) .. No need to change songbook entry or kbd-sets, slight change in my leadsheet ;-) .. |
.. seems to be nothing needs to be changed.
Addendum for my last posting:
Absolutely no changes to styles - not even the factory styles - are necessary, just set the split and chord scan accordingly - and Intro1 can be played without the LOWER sounds being suppressed.
Because of its capacity to suppress the Lower Sounds it is not necessary to move the Intro1 to other elements of the style, if you modify my Solution1 as follows:
Set recognition area to UPPER + LOWER.
To play Intro1 at the same time as Lower sounds will be played simply activate SPLIT and set the CHORD SCAN indicator to UPPER + LOWER.
Now the style can be started either with the start/stop button or with the left or the right hand via synchro start without the lower sounds being faded out.
I testet that with a Pa1000 - use Intro1, SynchroStart, Split and ChordScan Upper+Lower and play a Chord with your left hand (in Lower chord scan area !!) and
INTRO1 WILL START WITHOUT MUTING OF LOWER SOUND DURING INTRO1 RUNTIME.
If necessary, after the runtime of Intro1, Chord scan can be switched from combination Upper + Lower to LOWER. This can be done manually or via the KBDSets1-4, because KBDSets also store the status of ChordScan..
Unfortunately, a mistake at Solution2 has happened to me, because it is also necessary to set the Chord Recognition on Upper, Lower or Upper + Lower. But it doesn't work with setting to "nothing".
In the meantime, I do not consider the solution2 to be attractive, because you lose the possibility of using only three out of a total of four possible sounds (Upper1,2,3 + LOWER).
PS: Also if INTRO1 is not designed playing chords with LOWER - and the same applies to ENDING1 - with Pa1000 that can be done with setting of chord scan to Lower + Upper (Full Keyboard).
I would be surprised if this isn't solved in the same way with the style player of the Pa4x.
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kind regards
- siebenhirter, austria -
Interesting facts about styles and stylePlayer functions can be found at http: www.elmarherz.de |
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