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xmlguy Platinum Member
Joined: 26 Nov 2007 Posts: 3605
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Posted: Sat Jan 30, 2010 5:04 pm Post subject: |
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I viewed the live feed. Gawd, it was exactly what I expected, unfortunately. Again, no EE's asking the essential questions, just a bunch of apparent knownothings asking irrelevant questions. The evidence offered was an alleged scope function trace of an integral of I squared R, which he claims represents the heat energy of the system. Uh, we are trying to find electrical POWER out > POWER in. THEY ABSOLUTELY, POSITIVELY, DID NOT IN ANY WAY SHOW MORE POWER OUT THAN IN.
They also killed the only video stream that had sound immediately after the presentation, when I saw only one person, the guy who asked about the trace during the question period, came up afterwards to talk to one of the techs there. Then they killed that video, but there didn't appear to be ANYONE else examining the device or equipment.
It's a sad, sad day for the Irish Electrical Engineering community to allow Steorn to get away with this unchallenged by at least one of the 8,000 members of the IEEE in the UK&RI region.
Here's two obvious questions: How much power, in watts, is being supplied? How much power, in watts, is being returned? If the audience can't even formulate the right questions, how can it possibly investigate the truthfulness of the claims of electrical overunity? |
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Sharp Site Admin
Joined: 02 Jan 2002 Posts: 18197 Location: Ireland
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Posted: Sat Jan 30, 2010 5:13 pm Post subject: |
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I was watching myself but my Internet connection is all over the place. Too many stops and starts to even pass comment on what I saw. I'll keep my judgement until someone uploads the stream to Youtube and I can preload it.
Regards
Sharp. _________________
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Sharp Site Admin
Joined: 02 Jan 2002 Posts: 18197 Location: Ireland
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xmlguy Platinum Member
Joined: 26 Nov 2007 Posts: 3605
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Posted: Sun Jan 31, 2010 11:48 am Post subject: |
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"If you look at the scope traces, what you will see in the brown scope trace is the energy in the output coil and that is basically I squared R and that represents the heat produced by the system. The purple trace is the net electrical energy put into the system, net of joule heating. You can work the ratios: it's about 3 to 1 input to output. This does not include the energy that the rotor itself is doing in terms of work. That is simply direct electrical in to out net of joule heating."
He states earlier that the output coil is shorted. He cannot be measuring voltage or resistance of a shorted coil. He can only be measuring current. Watts Law is that power is equal to current squared times resistance, or current times voltage. He shouldn't even be using the I squared R because R only represents the winding resistance of the coil, not the inductance of the coil, and since the coil is shorted, there is no significant load resistance (just the wire resistance of the shorted leads). The coil should be hooked up to a load resistor to measure the RMS current and voltage to be used to determine the power over time, in Watts, if the power wave is sinusoidal. If the wave isn't sinusoidal, then the process of measuring the power is more complex.
I'm convinced that Sean is completely incompetent, based on how many mistakes he makes per minute. All he needs are two watt-hour meters, one on the battery supply, another on the output coil to a resistive dummy load, and all should be revealed when he can't explain why the supply meter runs faster than the output meter. |
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Sharp Site Admin
Joined: 02 Jan 2002 Posts: 18197 Location: Ireland
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Posted: Sun Jan 31, 2010 1:30 pm Post subject: |
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I'm bitterly disappointed with that demonstration but I still need time to research and process what I just saw. Clearly this wasn't meant for Joe Soap walking in of the street and that it was for Engineers.
Which I'm not, so I need to google every inch of the video to understand what was said.
What I will say now is this is by no means the demonstration Sean talked about. Powering things my ass. I'm bitterly disappointed, but maybe that's only because I don't quite understand everything just yet.
Sharp. _________________
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laughing_bear Platinum Member
Joined: 30 Jan 2002 Posts: 2970 Location: atlantic coast - northwest ireland
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Posted: Sun Jan 31, 2010 2:55 pm Post subject: |
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Quote: | Posted: Sat Jun 23, 2007 8:22 am Post subject:
Mhhh.... Shall we start betting?
I bet it is a Hoax, by this I mean a marketing stunt, whereby their major claims will prove false, unsustainable. |
I should have taken bets.
Seriously, this guy is a impostor, a severe head case at best.... XMI is right, it is a disgrace that no one of the UK/Eire engineering community sent him back to his cage.
Sorry you had false hopes on that Sharp, I know you were hoping that this proves to come true.
Then again, I intend to think, we have plenty of renewable energy at our disposal, if only we would finally send these flippin Sheiks dismissal without notice and stop using fossil fuels radically. Tell them to build solar plants and wind energy plants in their deserts, then we can talk, and shove their oil..... |
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Sharp Site Admin
Joined: 02 Jan 2002 Posts: 18197 Location: Ireland
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Posted: Sun Jan 31, 2010 11:05 pm Post subject: |
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Hi Bear.
Quite the opposite actually. The only reason why I'm bitterly disappointed is because the final demonstration leaves questions to be answered which is something I didn't want to see happening.
Steorn did not share any information relating to the data measurements on the scope or the calculations used. Those answers will explain why the coil was shorted, and why they didn't use all 4 channels on the scope.
That information is key to the demonstration because the scope did show proof of OU. It just didn't to it in layman terms which is expected considering the intended audience.
This ain't over yet.
Regards
Sharp. _________________
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laughing_bear Platinum Member
Joined: 30 Jan 2002 Posts: 2970 Location: atlantic coast - northwest ireland
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Posted: Mon Feb 01, 2010 1:56 am Post subject: |
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Sharp wrote: |
This ain't over yet.
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I'm afraid so... |
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Sharp Site Admin
Joined: 02 Jan 2002 Posts: 18197 Location: Ireland
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xmlguy Platinum Member
Joined: 26 Nov 2007 Posts: 3605
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Posted: Mon Feb 01, 2010 5:23 pm Post subject: |
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The fact that Steorn edited out the Q&A period is quite telling about their ethics and their desire to filter out any negative comments from public review. The questions asked weren't very good, but Sean's answers weren't any better.
So, you see that he showed that he was only measuring the current from the output coil. How much "energy" is being put out by a current of 1 amp? It can't be answered. Power is a function of current times voltage, or current squared divided by resistance (of a load). If you have an unknown or undefined voltage or resistance, you have unknown power.
How much work can 100 amps do? You might think a lot, right? Not if the voltage is 1 microvolt. How much work can 1 amp do? A lot more if the voltage is 220V. How quickly does a pool fill up with a 4 inch diameter pipe. A very long time with a water pressure of .001psi. How quickly does a pool fill up with a 1 inch diameter pipe? A lot faster with a water pressure of 100psi.
Current is not power. To use the term "energy" as Sean does is wrong, misleading, and deceptive. I have no idea what he thinks "energy" is. It might as well be leprechaun piss, for all he showed. Every time he uses the word energy in reference to the electrical output, he is wrong. He apparently is doing _something_ with current, but he didn't show any details of how the measurement was being done, did he. He had all the time in the world to show us what he was measuring and how. I was waiting. So he thinks he can convince the skeptics with 20 minutes, a large portion which was prerecorded? He'll probably fool a lot of people who don't know anything about electronics, I'll bet.
So current increases when you push the coil closer to the magnet. No duh. That happens with any coil on any motor shaft with magnets.
Can't you see how he has utterly failed to show how much power, in watts, is being supplied and output? Ask yourself - how many watts in and out? Do you know? No, he didn't say. He loves to talk in ratios and energy crap, but not give the important numbers that could back up his claim.
I'll give you a ratio that's important. Sean's BS:relevant data ratio is undefined due to a division by zero error. |
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Sharp Site Admin
Joined: 02 Jan 2002 Posts: 18197 Location: Ireland
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Posted: Mon Feb 01, 2010 6:53 pm Post subject: |
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Quote: | The fact that Steorn edited out the Q&A period is quite telling about their ethics and their desire to filter out any negative comments from public review. |
In all fairness to them, the questions were pathetic and one guy who I thought was going to lash into Sean lost the ability to string two words together and make any sense. The questions were a bloody embarrassment so it's no wonder Steorn cut them out. Here they were trying to be professional and prove OU and a moron who can't even speak trying to get everyone behind him.
Quote: | So, you see that he showed that he was only measuring the current from the output coil. How much "energy" is being put out by a current of 1 amp? It can't be answered. Power is a function of current times voltage, or current squared divided by resistance (of a load). If you have an unknown or undefined voltage or resistance, you have unknown power. |
No the calculation is a measurement of energy. This is 100% clear and has been trashed out over on Steorns own forums today. The demonstration does indicate very strongly they have OU, but they are clearly withholding information too. Why ?... Scam, maybe, but if you followed all the threads I posted Steorn are now aware of the fact that people have figured out what the core material is. So I bet they are a little worried people start having success here without paying them the 400 euro.
Regards
Sharp. _________________
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laughing_bear Platinum Member
Joined: 30 Jan 2002 Posts: 2970 Location: atlantic coast - northwest ireland
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Posted: Mon Feb 01, 2010 7:18 pm Post subject: |
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Well, I have seen and heard more than enough in deed, not worth putting anymore "energy" into it from where I am standing.
This guy is a 100% idiot, a severe head case, and more than likely scam artist.
What I said back in 2007 still stands, and thats enough for me, I leave you to it....
outa here.... |
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xmlguy Platinum Member
Joined: 26 Nov 2007 Posts: 3605
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Posted: Mon Feb 01, 2010 7:48 pm Post subject: |
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Here's a very revealing message from Sean/Steorn about his attitude:
http://www.steorn.com/forum/comments.php?DiscussionID=62643&page=1#Item_39
"However I really am not that interested in how you think we should have tested it. The test shown are conclusive proof of OU or Fraud. Take your pick."
OK. I pick Fraud. That was easy. We'll see how many of his paying customers produce a commercially viable free electric generator. I'll bet he'll be exposed soon enough by those people who discover they've been scammed the hard way. |
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Sharp Site Admin
Joined: 02 Jan 2002 Posts: 18197 Location: Ireland
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Posted: Tue Feb 02, 2010 12:42 am Post subject: |
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xmlguy wrote: | Here's a very revealing message from Sean/Steorn about his attitude:
http://www.steorn.com/forum/comments.php?DiscussionID=62643&page=1#Item_39
"However I really am not that interested in how you think we should have tested it. The test shown are conclusive proof of OU or Fraud. Take your pick."
OK. I pick Fraud. That was easy. We'll see how many of his paying customers produce a commercially viable free electric generator. I'll bet he'll be exposed soon enough by those people who discover they've been scammed the hard way. |
His attitude towards people who say horrible things about him is to be commended. He has shown tons of restraint. Just my 2 cents.
Even if he was an ignorant pig, so long as Orbo is real, that's all that matters.
Regards
Sharp. _________________
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Timo Platinum Member
Joined: 24 Jan 2002 Posts: 3109 Location: Kaoss central, England
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Posted: Tue Feb 02, 2010 1:27 am Post subject: |
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A little disappointed to see there weren't any practical working demos again, but unfortunately was half expecting that. I wanna see a 100W lightbulb lit up by a 1.5V AAA battery! (jk)
Not sure how what was shown constitutes confirmation of over-unity, but then I'm still a layman and thus not the intended target audience.
Oh well, no doubt a few will stump up and either confirm or condemn the whole thing soon! _________________ [Free Moss Set For All Workstations With Moss Expansion]
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