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rbox
Junior Member
Joined: 25 Sep 2007
Posts: 89
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 Posted: Sun Oct 14, 2007 6:32 pm Post subject: |
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Have i found a Limitation of the Mod-7?
When you go to the VPM1 OSC Page you change the Mode from Sine+Waveshaper to Saw,the Parameter Details in the Block diagramm
missing a Filterblock ,so it is not possible to have the same Filter Blockdiagramm with saw or Rectangle as with Sine+Waveshaper?Or can you change this with the patchbay? |
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ldascanio
Full Member
Joined: 29 Oct 2005
Posts: 169
Location: Buenos Aires, Argentina
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| Posted: Sun Oct 14, 2007 6:59 pm Post subject: |
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| rbox wrote: | Have i found a Limitation of the Mod-7?
When you go to the VPM1 OSC Page you change the Mode from Sine+Waveshaper to Saw,the Parameter Details in the Block diagramm
missing a Filterblock ,so it is not possible to have the same Filter Blockdiagramm with saw or Rectangle as with Sine+Waveshaper?Or can you change this with the patchbay? |
Well...in fact....all modes but Sin+Whaveshaper have just one filter or no filters at all in the path signal as part of the oscillator.
Probably that's why Sine+Whaveshaper mode is called "The ultra-super-deluxe" mode in the Paremeter guide (p. 355-356).
That's the way they are designed. You could get the same effect by using two VPM modules...the first one set to SAW with no ring modulation and then connecting the output to a second VPM set to Waveshaper (that will add the whaveshaper and the High pass filter to your path before the ring modulation. If you are using ring mod. use just the one of the second block. If you are not using waveshaper set this block to "linear" so the signal is unchanged.
This arrangement probably has an extra CPU power cost but if you really need that filter before a ring mod. block...this could work well.
If you don't need it before the ring mod. you just need to connect the output of the VPM osc. set to "saw" to one of the filters available and set it to High Pass or whatever you need.
Rgds.
_________________
Leo
OASYS 88 #000312
KRONOS 61 #003946
KORG Z1, ROLAND PK-5 |
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Sina172
Platinum Member
Joined: 29 May 2007
Posts: 1194
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| Posted: Sun Oct 14, 2007 10:28 pm Post subject: |
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........
Last edited by Sina172 on Sun Jan 31, 2016 2:48 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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peter m. mahr
Platinum Member
Joined: 23 Apr 2006
Posts: 1030
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| Posted: Mon Oct 15, 2007 12:18 am Post subject: |
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Hi Sina,
will give it a try within the next days. First I need to have a look into the books to know which keys I have to press for each chord  .
mmhh... 1, 2, 3, 4 .. ah, maybe I should use the eight pads.
peter |
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Dr.Vanderberg
Joined: 15 Oct 2007
Posts: 2
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Mike Conway
Approved Merchant
Joined: 28 Jan 2005
Posts: 2433
Location: Las Vegas, Nevada
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| Posted: Mon Oct 15, 2007 12:13 pm Post subject: |
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Dr., you don't think that MOD-7 is worth $249? The Octopus sounds great, but.... you can only play it from a computer. 12 note polyphony is weak - MOD-7 has over 50 note poly, which is good for electric pianos or TX816 type stacks. Octopus has only 4 stereo effects (Parametric EQ, Chorus, Delay and Reverb). Compare that to 185 FX algorithms that MOD-7 has access to. It doesn't sound like the Octopus can import DX sysex.
Octopus sounds kickass, but MOD-7 is also potent with potential. There really aren't that many programs which take advantage of its waveform input capabilities, yet. So much was made of its DX7 patch import that MOD-7 has a patch set that includes a lot of those, instead of more of the bolder sounds it is capable of
While there isn't traditional looping, all envelopes are AMS retriggerable, allowing for many possibilities.
As for FM8, can that utilize sample input, yet? I know it's a good program.
You see, I think all FM is good, whether it is the simple 2 osc kind made on the Virus or your full blown Octopus. I thank you for the link, as I may pick it up someday. But, what's the point on bashing MOD-7, when it is clearly a beautiful development for hardware and FM users in general? Sure, it is $100 more than Octopus, but it also has more than 4 times the poly. |
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EJ2
Approved Merchant
Joined: 13 May 2002
Posts: 2292
Location: Port Rowan, Ontario, Canada
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| Posted: Mon Oct 15, 2007 3:58 pm Post subject: |
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I have to back up what Mike is saying. Neither Octopus nor FM8 provide the tools that MOD-7 within the OASYS can and does. MOD-7 goes far and beyond FM. As Mike has pointed out, its potential within the OASYS is leagues beyond what Octopus or FM8 provide.
Now, I'm going to take issue with your statement
| Quote: | This is a typical Problem of the Korg Sound philosophy,they build instruments with poor groundsound and overdub it with a huge effectsection,this concept cannot have a future.
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Have you really spent any time auditioning OASYS programs stripped of their FX? I doubt it, because you wouldn't be making such false claims as above. In fact, if you search the threads here in Korg Forums or over at Karma Lab Forums, you will see/hear demonstrations of barebones programs attesting to the clarity, cleaness, and quality of the "groundsounds" you disparage. The integrity of the OASYS sound simply is where the future is - period. I suspect that's one of the reasons noteable users such as
Jordan Rudess - Dream Theater
Keith Emerson - Emerson Lake and Palmer, Keith Emerson Band
Tony Banks - Genesis
Greg Phillinganes - session keyboardist, now playing with Toto
Herbie Hancock
Chuck Leavell - The Rolling Stones
Sly Stone
Derek Sherinian
Michael Cretu - Enigma
Tuomas Holopainen - Nightwish
have made the OASYS front and centre in their rigs; not to mention the thousands of users who have stepped up to this amazing instrument.
Have you actually worked with MOD-7? If not, your claims are baseless. Sorry to be so blunt.
To those considering purchasing MOD-7, the price is just right. Get it. You'll be very happy you did.
Cheers,
Eric
_________________
Cheers,
Jim (aka EJ2) Karma-Lab Associate Combi Developer
CATALYST v 2 Blast of Inspiration for KRONOS & OASYS: http://www.karma-lab.com/sounds/catalyst2.html
CATALYST v 1 Combi Explosion for KRONOS, OASYS, M3, & K-M50: http://www.karma-lab.com/sounds/catalyst1.html
CHEMISTRY 3, a Groove Injection for Your Karma: http://www.karma-lab.com/sounds/chem3.html
SoundCloud MP3 Demoshttps://soundcloud.com/ej2-sc |
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vEddY
Platinum Member
Joined: 20 Jul 2002
Posts: 1263
Location: Zagreb
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| Posted: Mon Oct 15, 2007 4:21 pm Post subject: |
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| Dr.Vanderberg wrote: |
Definitive NOT!!
I can tell you why.I compare the Mod-7 not with the old DX7,i compare it with the FSR1 and current Softwareplugins for PC/MAC,from this point you can see that the Mod-7 is limited in his functions.When you switch off
the effects ,the sound becomes a boring charakter,that is a reason why they have combined some AL-1/STR-1 Patches with Mod-7 Patches in Layermodeprograms .This is a typical Problem of the Korg Sound philosophy,they build instruments with poor groundsound and overdub it with a huge effectsection,this concept cannot have a future.
So what is MOD-7??It is a Dx7 or casio Vz10m deluxe with more
funktions but it is not revolutionary as the DX7 in his time.And here
i can see a fundamental problem in the Oasys concept,people have buy a Workstation for a lot money with outdatet Softwareplugins. |
Dude, you're losing me here. What is it that I hear in the background? Oh yeah, I know what it is - it's ALERT - saying that you're COMPARING APPLES TO ORANGES!
I mean.. OK, I'm gonna do amazingly stupid comparison.
<imaginary case>
Oh, looky-looky, what do we have here? Hmm, yeah, it's a Roland V-Synth. Oh, it has a sequencer, so very cool - I'm gonna sequence my 64-channel 192kHz audio on a V-Synth. Woops, what is it that I hear? Oh, right, that can't be done. How about if I went with Motif? Nope, sorry, can't be done. Hmm.. All of those keyboards are really a piece of crap because they can't do this! I should really buy myself a Mac Pro with two quad-core CPU's, SAS drives, 16GB of memory and sequence my 64 tracks there and my computer will still be whistling "I'm so freakin' bored" in the background.
</imaginary case>
Go play with your plugins if you're a plugin kind of guy - that's perfectly fine with all of us here. But start comparing things that are comparable, because this kind of shitting on other people's stuff is taking you and the rest of us here - absolutely nowhere.
And, For The Love Of God (c) by Steve Vai, please, compare a keyboard to a keyboard.
Cheers,
vEddY.
_________________
Check out http://it-review.net. Reviews and news - hardware, software and musical instruments.
Personally? LPI. RHCE, RHCI, RHCX, RHCVA. MCITP 2008 certification done. MCITP Virtualization Administrator done. MCITP Exchange 2010 done. MCITP MS SQL 2008 done. MCT done. MCSE Server Infrastructure 2012, MCSE: Private Cloud, MCSE:Messaging and MCSE: Desktop Infrastructure done. VCP5-DV done. VCI done. MCITP: Sharepoint 2010 Administrator done. VCP5-Cloud done. VCP5-DT done. VCAP5-DCA done. VCP6-DCV done. |
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ski
Independent Sound Designer for Korg
Joined: 25 Jan 2005
Posts: 496
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| Posted: Mon Oct 15, 2007 4:32 pm Post subject: |
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Dr. Vandenberg,
| Quote: | | This is a typical Problem of the Korg Sound philosophy, they build instruments with poor groundsound and overdub it with a huge effectsection, this concept cannot have a future. |
If you'd like to research an old concept without a future, may I suggest the zeppelin? |
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MartinHines
Platinum Member
Joined: 21 Jan 2003
Posts: 3037
Location: Topeka, KS (USA)
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| Posted: Mon Oct 15, 2007 4:49 pm Post subject: |
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| Dr.Vanderberg wrote: |
-- I compare the Mod-7 not with the old DX7
-- i compare it with the FSR1 and current Softwareplugins...
-- When you switch off the effects |
Welcome Dr. Vanderberg,
A few questions for you:
1) How long have you owned an OASYS?
2) Where did you buy it (what store)?
3) Serial number and model?
4) How long have you had the MOD-7?
If you don't actually own an OASYS nor the MOD-7 expansion, you really should be honest about it, especially if you claim to be able to compare the sound by "switching off the effects".
I suspect your comparison is really nothing more than comparing specs and comparing posted mp3 demos.
Last edited by MartinHines on Mon Oct 15, 2007 8:17 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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vEddY
Platinum Member
Joined: 20 Jul 2002
Posts: 1263
Location: Zagreb
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| Posted: Mon Oct 15, 2007 6:06 pm Post subject: |
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| vEddY wrote: | | Dr.Vanderberg wrote: |
Definitive NOT!!
I can tell you why.I compare the Mod-7 not with the old DX7,i compare it with the FSR1 and current Softwareplugins for PC/MAC,from this point you can see that the Mod-7 is limited in his functions.When you switch off
the effects ,the sound becomes a boring charakter,that is a reason why they have combined some AL-1/STR-1 Patches with Mod-7 Patches in Layermodeprograms .This is a typical Problem of the Korg Sound philosophy,they build instruments with poor groundsound and overdub it with a huge effectsection,this concept cannot have a future.
So what is MOD-7??It is a Dx7 or casio Vz10m deluxe with more
funktions but it is not revolutionary as the DX7 in his time.And here
i can see a fundamental problem in the Oasys concept,people have buy a Workstation for a lot money with outdatet Softwareplugins. |
Dude, you're losing me here. What is it that I hear in the background? Oh yeah, I know what it is - it's ALERT - saying that you're COMPARING APPLES TO ORANGES!
I mean.. OK, I'm gonna do amazingly stupid comparison.
<imaginary case>
Oh, looky-looky, what do we have here? Hmm, yeah, it's a Roland V-Synth. Oh, it has a sequencer, so very cool - I'm gonna sequence my 64-channel 192kHz audio on a V-Synth. Woops, what is it that I hear? Oh, right, that can't be done. How about if I went with Motif? Nope, sorry, can't be done. Hmm.. All of those keyboards are really a piece of crap because they can't do this! I should really buy myself a Mac Pro with two quad-core CPU's, SAS drives, 16GB of memory and sequence my 64 tracks there and my computer will still be whistling "I'm so freakin' bored" in the background.
</imaginary case>
Go play with your plugins if you're a plugin kind of guy - that's perfectly fine with all of us here. But start comparing things that are comparable, because this kind of shitting on other people's stuff is taking you and the rest of us here - absolutely nowhere.
And, For The Love Of God (c) by Steve Vai, please, compare a keyboard to a keyboard. If possible, from your own, not mp3 experience.
Cheers,
vEddY. |
_________________
Check out http://it-review.net. Reviews and news - hardware, software and musical instruments.
Personally? LPI. RHCE, RHCI, RHCX, RHCVA. MCITP 2008 certification done. MCITP Virtualization Administrator done. MCITP Exchange 2010 done. MCITP MS SQL 2008 done. MCT done. MCSE Server Infrastructure 2012, MCSE: Private Cloud, MCSE:Messaging and MCSE: Desktop Infrastructure done. VCP5-DV done. VCI done. MCITP: Sharepoint 2010 Administrator done. VCP5-Cloud done. VCP5-DT done. VCAP5-DCA done. VCP6-DCV done. |
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peter m. mahr
Platinum Member
Joined: 23 Apr 2006
Posts: 1030
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Sina172
Platinum Member
Joined: 29 May 2007
Posts: 1194
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| Posted: Tue Oct 16, 2007 4:20 pm Post subject: |
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.......
Last edited by Sina172 on Sun Jan 31, 2016 2:49 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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peter m. mahr
Platinum Member
Joined: 23 Apr 2006
Posts: 1030
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| Posted: Tue Oct 16, 2007 5:34 pm Post subject: |
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| Sina172 wrote: | Pretty sweet! That is a BEAUTIFUL sounding EP!  This one now reminds me of that Yamaha Galaxy EP Patch in their PSR and Digital Pianos. Probably one of the BEST I've EVER heard! 
I've yet to purchase MOD-7 but I will definitely do so in the coming weeks as I'm getting MORE use out it that ANY EXi or Synth I've EVER used! |
Mmh.. I am not sure about that. There should not be any doubt about it that I like MOD-7, but you know, when KORG made the Polysix and MS-20 EXis available I thought, yahh.. ok, they sound neat, ok, lets purchase them. But the more time I spent with them in the last weeks before the launch of MOD-7, I figured out how good both of them are and how different they sound.
Meanwhile MS-20 overtook STR-1 which was my favourite before... but ... hmm... this is changing every month.....  week? .. whenever I play with one of them. What I want to say is, that all of them have a good reason to find their home in OASYS and that they complement. Polysix is a killer when it comes to thick and strong basses, MS-20 I love alone for the solo sound, AL-1... what can I tell you about it you do not already know. STR-1 - underestimated. Therefore purchase MOD-7 as soon as you can afford it but do not forget about the other EXis!
| Sina172 wrote: | | I can't believe how GORGEOUS the textures are and how you can go from rhythmic, to smooth and lush, to aggressive in single EXi. Not to ention those 12 Inserts and 2 Master Effects, AND the EQ PER Oscillator?! WOOOOWWWWW! That STILL blows my mind!!!! I F***ING LOVE IT! |
.. it is no secret - in my opinion you cannot do anything wrong by purchasing MOD-7!
| Sina172 wrote: | | P.S. I NEED an Interview from you! Can't WAIT to get in touch with you! |
[herzhaftes Lachen]
| Sina172 wrote: | | I'll PM you my email address and we'll go from there . |
usually it is the opposite way around... but why not being flexible
ok, looking forward
peter |
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danatkorg
Product Manager, Korg R&D
Joined: 21 Jan 2005
Posts: 4204
Location: California, USA
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| Posted: Tue Oct 16, 2007 5:36 pm Post subject: |
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| Dr.Vanderberg wrote: |
that is a reason why they have combined some AL-1/STR-1 Patches with Mod-7 Patches in Layermodeprograms . |
Actually, almost all MOD-7 Programs are single MOD-7s.
Anyone here think that we made the MOD-7 without first familiarizing ourselves with contemporary and classic FM synths, such as Octopus, Sytrus, FM7/8, SY77/99, DX7? They're all different synths, with slightly different capabilities.
Take a look at the multi-point EG example from FM8, posted above. It's four rhythmic pulses. In looking at the sounds in FM7 and FM8, I found that this type of use - rhythmic patterns - was the most common use of the extended EG functionality. MOD-7 supports this in several different ways. You could create that exact example by using a triggered EG. For more complex effects, you could also use one of the step sequencers with quick attack smoothing and longer decay smoothing.
| Dr.Vanderberg wrote: |
"Each oscillator’s spectrum is editable using the instrument’s internal spectrum editor so it’s easy to create you own unique waveforms." |
Yes, Octopus' oscillators let you create static, additively-specified waveforms. In comparison, Korg's offer waveshaping - which, unlike static additive oscillators, is dynamic; it lets the timbre change over time, either by programmed modulation (LFOs, EGs, step seq etc.) or in response to user input (velocity, controllers etc.). While each is interesting, in my opinion waveshaping yields the more dynamic, expressive results.
Note that the MOD-7 Waveshaping includes a number of different additive waveforms, with partial levels adjustable (in real-time) via Drive.
In general, as far as I can tell, the MOD-7's real-time modulation capabilities are far more extensive.
| Dr.Vanderberg wrote: | | "Two independent multimode filters, are available as FM sources" |
Yes, just like the two filters in the MOD-7. Of course, the filters in the MOD-7 use the OASYS filter technology, with resonance out to 20kHz, the MultiFilter, and so on.
| Dr.Vanderberg wrote: | | (re the FM8) complex Matrixstructure: |
Yes, the FM7/8 use a matrix routing structure, while the MOD-7 uses a patch panel. The matrix allows more simultaneous connections, but we found that these were rarely used. In the MOD-7, on the other hand, you have more *reasons* to route signals, such as two multimode resonant filters instead of one, up to 6 complex waveshapers instead of one simple one, ring modulation, and so on.
| Dr.Vanderberg wrote: | | And FM8 can import DX7/TX patches too: |
As a side point, if anyone is interested in comparing the DX7 import capabilities, I'd encourage you to do so. I think that you'll find that the MOD-7 fares rather well. Of course, it's worth noting that the FM7/8 will import sounds from the "baby DX" 4-op synths as well as the classic 6-op synths, while the MOD-7 concentrates solely on the latter (since that's what the bulk of the patch archives concentrate on, as well).
| Dr.Vanderberg wrote: | | The Yamaha FS1R came out in 1998 and have some cool sounds you cannot reproduce it with the Mod-7,i have testet it: |
Absolutely - I could have told you that without testing. The FS1R prominently features formant filtering, which the MOD-7 does not do. On the other hand, the MOD-7 does tons of things that the FS1R does not, such as waveshaping, ring modulation, using samples as VPM modulators, more extensive real-time modulation, etc. It's almost like they're different synthesizers. Eerie.
| Dr.Vanderberg wrote: | The Mod-7 is also limited when you compare it with the Yamaha TG77,the
TG77 has 2 inputs per operator Mod-7 only 2 in 1 mixes. |
Actually, the MOD-7 has two inputs per oscillator, in addition to the patch-panel mixers.
Best regards,
Dan
_________________
Dan Phillips
Manager of Product Development, Korg R&D
Personal website: www.danphillips.com
For technical support, please contact your Korg Distributor: http://www.korg.co.jp/English/Distributors/
Regretfully, I cannot offer technical support directly.
If you need to contact me for purposes other than technical support, please do not send PMs; instead, send email to dan@korgrd.com |
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