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PBS-TRI "RAM CHIPS" (NEC D431000ACZ-70L) - HELP NE
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sergiommms



Joined: 29 May 2007
Posts: 22

PostPosted: Sun Jun 15, 2008 4:39 pm    Post subject: PBS-TRI "RAM CHIPS" (NEC D431000ACZ-70L) - HELP NE Reply with quote

Hi folks
I recently sold my Trinity, but kept the expansions, for the eventual... future... possible... wanted PRO X V3 88.
I didn΄t manage to get such pro x, and eventually spent the cash with other gear acquisition (syndrome)...

The point is:
- I sold the SOLO-TRI... no probs...
- I sold the MOSS-TRI... no probs...
- I sold the PBS-TRI » BIG TIME PROBLEMS.

The buyer claims a "service technician" told him there were two ram banks missing (?!). Uppon insisting for a clarification, none was obtained... and I΄m being judged as a scammer or something...

I΄ve since searched the net, and found two or three references to "SRAM CHIPS" accompanying the PBS-TRI expansion. So, my guess was those chips were installed in the "bare" Trinity I sold.

I dug up some pics I΄d taken of the Trinity, and found two socketed chips just near the PBS-TRI (when it was installed).

They read NEC D431000ACZ-70L and I guess the second line of numberings refers to batch/mfg. date or something so I΄m not looking into those... After some googling around, I learned they are in fact "1M-BIT CMOS STATIC RAM 128K-WORD BY 8-BIT" chips. Tech specs:
http://us.100y.com.tw/PNoInfo/16404.htm
http://pdf1.alldatasheet.com/datasheet-pdf/view/97595/NEC/UPD431000ACZ-70LL.html

MY QUESTION IS...
IF I can source such chips at all, do you think they΄d need some kind of programming to be fully operational, or it΄s just a question of sticking them in and booting the synth?


Any help would be much appreciated!

Thanks
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Timo
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Joined: 24 Jan 2002
Posts: 3096
Location: Kaoss central, England

PostPosted: Sun Jun 15, 2008 6:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Here's a few photos of my Trinity, from the last time I swapped a few boards around.

It's been a number of years since I installed the PBS-TRI (myself), so I can't entirely remember the procedure, but going on my crappy memory I've circled what I think the parts were:-

PBS-TRI board is in blue, the Flash ROM chips are circled in red:-





Luck had it my digital camera used high resolution for that photo, so I've rotated and zoomed in for you:-



... which confirms the model of the chips, NEC D431000ACZ-70L.

And I can remember installing the chips separate to the PBS board itself. If you also look closely, these are the only chips on the motherboard that aren't surface mounted (soldered in), as they are user installable.

So, yes, your buyer is correct, the chips are separate to the PBS-TRI board, as they are inserted into the Trinity's motherboard.

Indeed whoever has your Trinity also has those FlashROM chips hiding inside it! They wont be able to use them of course, as they need the PBS-TRI board to engage them. So you may be able to contact them, and if they are nice people and are willing to prise open their new Trinity.... They'd need to take great care, though. The legs on those chips are fragile and too easily bent.
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Last edited by Timo on Sun Jun 15, 2008 7:02 pm; edited 1 time in total
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sergiommms



Joined: 29 May 2007
Posts: 22

PostPosted: Sun Jun 15, 2008 7:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

That΄s what I thought.
Thanks for the answer. I will contact the buyer.... and see if he΄s nice...
On the other hand, I΄ve already located sources for those chips, at three or four online electronics parts suppliers.
Problem is they only take minimum orders of 250$ ...well, most of them.
If I΄m lucky, they΄ll get back at me with a price quote, and I΄ll buy them and mail them to the PBS-TRI buyer - if I don΄t get the Trinity buyer to sort this out (they΄re both from Italy actually...), but I don΄t think so. I΄ve found it VERY HARD to make myself uderstood in Italy, let alone convince a guy that he should take his synth apart and send two chips to another guy.

My pics match yours exactly (except the sticker on the bottom chip says "A 10" on mine).

Thanks for the answer.

I΄m guessing these don΄t take any programming at all, right? It΄s just like sticking ram board on a computer motherboard. Or not?![/img]
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Timo
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Joined: 24 Jan 2002
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Location: Kaoss central, England

PostPosted: Sun Jun 15, 2008 7:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

sergiommms wrote:
I΄m guessing these don΄t take any programming at all, right? It΄s just like sticking ram board on a computer motherboard. Or not?!


I can't give you a concrete answer as the technicalities are beyond me as a mere user, but you can 'erase' the data on the chips from the Trinity's touchscreen once the PBS-TRI board and the chips have been installed, prior to uploading your own samples. With a bit of luck this may format and prime the chips for PBS-TRI usage too.

However, I strenuously advise you to contact Korg Support to ask them beforehand to make double sure the chips and the data that could be on them are compatible, as I do not know the risks.

If you're in the UK: http://www.korguksupport.co.uk/

Let us know how you get on.
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sergiommms



Joined: 29 May 2007
Posts: 22

PostPosted: Mon Jun 16, 2008 8:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yesterday evening, I managed to place several requests for supply quotes near three of fours online electronics parts suppliers...

1) Only sells to companies...
2) Check out the quote:


# PartNumber D/C Qty Price Total Ship
——————————————————————————————————————————————————————————————————————————————
1 UPD431000ACZ-70L 4 $50.000/ea $200.00
Mfr: NEC
This INCULDES SHIPPING TO YOU - FROM US

——————————————————————————————————————————————————————————————————————————————
Total net: $200.00 USD


3) 4) and others... let΄s see what I get in my mail in the next few days...
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Bazz02
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Joined: 27 Mar 2006
Posts: 116
Location: Belfast N.Ireland

PostPosted: Tue Jun 17, 2008 9:47 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi

Dont understand why he needs the ram.It only refers to the PBS and is not used by any other part of the trinity.
And if he says cause hes getting a PBS then you get the ram with it.
I think the tech guy panicked when he saw the empty sockets.

Good Luck
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sergiommms



Joined: 29 May 2007
Posts: 22

PostPosted: Tue Jun 17, 2008 10:27 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

A reply from yet another parts supplier:

«Please let me know if you are able to accept a higher quantity on this part in order to meet our suppliers $300.00 minimum order requirements. Thank you for this opportunity. If there is anything further we can assist you with please do not hesitate to contact me.»

As for the guy who bought me the Trinity... he is not answering my emails. He should really be a nice guy and take those chips out since they don΄t belong there, right? Nor will be benefit anything from having them stuck there...

On the other end... the guy who bought me the PBS-TRI is freaking out on me - and his tech also - because I supposedly conned him in not sending the two ram chips.

I already offered a refund, and to take the board back.

This is really absurd. But it goes to tell you that there should be more info about the TRINITY and the EXPANSIONS... since I never saw anything, any docs, about the need for the BOARD + TWO CHIPS... and when and if I did, I must have thought it meant the actual 4 big square flat chips on the board itslef...

Let΄s see how this unfolds...

If someone knows where to get a simple pair of NEC D431000ACZ-70L, let me know. (BTW... I΄m going to contact Korg UK Support about it...)

Thank you.
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Timo
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Joined: 24 Jan 2002
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Location: Kaoss central, England

PostPosted: Fri Jun 20, 2008 3:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

So, are the two chips just used for storing Program and Combi banks C & D, or are the chips used for storing the actual 8MB FlashROM PCM waveform data of the PBS?

If the former, your PBS-TRI buyer should still be able to use the 8MB FlashROM, but would miss out on having the Program and Combi banks C & D. In this case the person you sold the Trinity to may have access to those extra banks C & D for normal Trinity patches even though they don't have the PBS board!

If the person you sold the Trinity to is not so proficient with electronics, though, I'm not sure if they would be prepared to dive in there and start prising out chips. The legs on those two chips are especially fragile, and would need care in taking them out, as well as taking anti-static precautions.

Either way, the PBS-TRI and the two chips are part of the same bundle and the PBS-TRI buyer should ideally be given those two chips (many PCM soundsets are loaded into Program banks C or D as standard) unless it was advertised otherwise.

The reason there's probably not much info about the bundle or the hardware/service aspect itself is it was usually recommended that a Korg- or service-technician carry out such upgrades for you.
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pegnafroy
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Joined: 19 Apr 2007
Posts: 201
Location: Penaflor, Santiago of Chile

PostPosted: Tue Jul 01, 2008 7:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi:

Those 2 chips, are the banks C and D, they are not the flash rom chips, since the flash rom is in the pbs board, if you take the board out of your trinity and installed on another trinity you don't need to load the samples, coz they stay in it.

And if you don't have the PBS-TRI board and you have the 2 SRAM chips, then you'll have banks C and D in prog and combi modes, in order to store more sounds. And 64 extra locations for solo or moss.

I've discover that, one night when the pbs is loosed inside my trinity, but i've maintained the extra banks. At boot, the screen don't say "with PBS-TRI" and in global mode there is no page 6.

So, when i returned to home, i check that, and the pbs and the SRAM chips can work together or separated.

Hope this help.

Desde Santiago de Chile.

Froilαn
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sergiommms



Joined: 29 May 2007
Posts: 22

PostPosted: Tue Jul 08, 2008 12:13 pm    Post subject: Yet another reply... Reply with quote

Hi guys
I received yet another boatload of quotes for the chips, and this one was rather enlightening - although I lack the expertise to comment. Somebody?

«HI SERGIO---THIS IS AN 128K X 8 SRAM.
FUJITSU #MB841000,
GOLDSTAR #7GM6C8128,
HITACHI #HM628128,
MITSUBISHI #M5M51008,
OKI #MSM521001,
SAMSUNG #KM681000,
SONY @CXK681000
AND TOSHIBA #TC551001
ALL THESE ALSO MAKE SAME PART.
I DO NOT HAVE THE FULL CALL OUT BUT HOPEFULLY THIS WILL HELP YOU FIND THEM. REGARDS PAUL»
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Mediterranean



Joined: 19 Feb 2008
Posts: 2

PostPosted: Sat Jul 12, 2008 7:02 pm    Post subject: I can supply them for you ! Reply with quote

Those are the SRAM chips used to add C and D banks and you need them in order for the PBS-TRI to function flawlessly . I can supply them for $125 including shipping to your door . Let me know if you are interested !
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Spacecowboy
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Joined: 26 Nov 2007
Posts: 152
Location: Atlanta, ga. USA

PostPosted: Sat Jul 19, 2008 7:36 am    Post subject: i want chips lol Reply with quote

gimme gimme gimme dem tings pleeeeeze. i'm sure a pbs tri will show up on ebay eventually. unless?
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pegnafroy
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Joined: 19 Apr 2007
Posts: 201
Location: Penaflor, Santiago of Chile

PostPosted: Wed Aug 06, 2008 5:49 pm    Post subject: Re: I can supply them for you ! Reply with quote

Mediterranean wrote:
Those are the SRAM chips used to add C and D banks and you need them in order for the PBS-TRI to function flawlessly . I can supply them for $125 including shipping to your door . Let me know if you are interested !


Those chips are for C and D banks, yes, you're ok.

But the PBS can function right without those extra banks. The only issue is that you'll discover that only 2 banks of 128 patches are so insufficient.

I recommend that if you have a trinity and don't have a pbs, buy (if you find a pair) those chips anyway, since you can maintain a large patch count inside your machine. So useful.

Hope this help.

Desde Santiago de Chile.

Froilαn
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Mediterranean



Joined: 19 Feb 2008
Posts: 2

PostPosted: Wed Aug 06, 2008 7:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hey Froilan ,

Dude , I know what I am talking about and it's not about the basic functions of the PBS-TRI but it's about some technical issues that could happen if you have missed the SRAM chips . Well , I am sure you will realize that what I am telling you is correct since I know many people had the same and I have fixed their TRINITYs myself . I hope you are still enjoying the PBS-TRI kit you bought from me couple of years ago . Wink

I'd prefer to keep my real name private !

Good luck !

"Z"
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pegnafroy
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Location: Penaflor, Santiago of Chile

PostPosted: Sun Aug 17, 2008 3:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi "Z"

Absolutely, i remember you, but i bought to you a hdr-tri. And it was the last year, not a couple of years ago.

Ok, but i've try what you say with my trinity and the pbs works flawlessly with or without those chips.

The samples stay into the pbs board, not on the sram chips, those chips are for patch storage.

But, anyway, if you have a trinity and don't have the pbs, then it's so useful to install those chips anyway, since you can manage four banks of patches in prog and combi mode, and 64 extra patches in s or m bank.

Peace to you and your country.

Desde Santiago de Chile.

Froilαn
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