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[Sharp]

Hi all.

What do you make of this 2012 doomsday “The Galactic Alignment” stuff. I know history is full of all sorts of end of the world predictions but none are backed by any scientific proof or have any sort of coincidences about them that would make you take any interest at all except for this one.

History, the bible, the myna's and their calender, the 12 year cycle of the sun and it's solar flares, the entire freaking galactic alignment of everything all happens on 21/12/2012 and that's just for starters. There are countless other things all going to happen on this day.

The sheer number of coincidences and provable scientific evidence that all points to this specific date is mind blowing. The internet is on fire with regards to this topic and I was wondering if anyone else here has any interest in all this and what do you make of it.

It was only 330 years ago when Newton worked out what Gravity actually was and yet the mayn's knew about the galactic alignment thousands of years ago.

Regards
Sharp
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[PianoManGidley]

If any of it is true, it is out of the scope of our ability to change much of what is predicted. The answer, then, is the same answer we have always known: live. Live for the limited moments for which we have opportunities. After all is said and done, we all understand that the human species, like all species, has a limited time here in this universe. Once we're all dead and gone, what will all our struggles have been for? What of all the wars, all the art created, all the music, all the joys and the sorrows, the friendships and divisions? What will it all sum up to in the end, when none are left to understand or appreciate it? It is for the moments we have before we go. It is for the now. For anything to have value, its existence must be threatened. It's what makes life so great and yet so bittersweet. Make the most of it. Carpe Diem.

[xmlguy]

Newton was entirely wrong, even though his calculations were close enough to be useful for a long time, it was the error between actual observations and the precise use of his formulas that proved to be the fatal flaw.

Gravity is not a force, as Newton thought, and Newton had no clue as to the reason why Gravity behaved as it did, and his theory was limited to explaining its behavior, not its cause. Einstein's theories replaced Newton's, not merely supplementing them. and General Relativity is an incomplete explanation insofar as quantum mechanics at the subatomic level.

Calendars are entirely a human invention that have no effect on anything in cosmotology, however they have limited effect on individual humans if they contain other nude humans, cute animals, or humorous photos.

Unfortunately for astrology, the constellations are all an illusion based on our point of reference and the human need to see patterns where none exist. Anything based on the position of the constellations is merely a magnfication of an illusion.

The fascination with numerical patterns is also a human trait with no significance outside our own thick skulls. If we all had 4 fingers on each hand and foot, we certainly would be using an octal numeric system that would result in completely different numerical alignments. The year 3734 doesn't have quite the same effect as 2012, but it is the same amount in different numerical bases. Humans are so attached to having two days of goofing off after every five days of work, that I don't think will ever get rid of this meaningless illusion of a 7 day week. There is no such thing as a week. Planets, Stars, Moons, or any other astronomical objects have no weeks. That's because they are unrelated to how many planets humans could see in the night sky without optical enhancement.

Our solar system also wasn't created in 7 days. You can't have a day without a reference point and a planet that rotates with respect to a central star can't occur without that star or that planet. Then there's the issue that Earth's rotational sidereal day with respect to the stars is different than with synodic day with respect to the Sun. The sidereal day is about 4 minutes faster than our solar synodic day. Most humans don't seem to know that the earth does not actually rotate once on its axis in 24 hours but actually does so in approximately 23 hours, 56 minutes, 4 seconds, but that our position relative to the sun just makes it seem slower because we are moving around it at the same time.

Our point of reference is a very powerful influence on our perception of space and time. But fortunately, we think we have more influence on the world and the cosmos than we actually do. If all humans get wiped out, it will all go on quite well without us. 2012 is just as likely as any year for that to occur, since all it takes is a deflection of a rather small rock (by cosmological standards) to head on a direct impact trajectory, then we all become dinosaur bones that some future species digs up and mounts in museums.

[Sharp]

Hi xmlguy.

The only man made thing here in all this is our measurement of time, everything else is completely out of our control and it will happen. This is scientific fact.

The scale we use to measure time on is irrelevant in the grand scheme of all this. The important factor is that regardless of what scale we use to measure time from our view point in the universe, it is a constant which allows us to always follow the celestial events. A day is a day, a month is a month and year is a year and so on. By using that scale we know exactly when things are going to happen.

For example we know that every 12 years our Sun flips it's magnetic poles and during this time we experience what is called solar maximum which is basically a huge surge in solar flares that are much stronger at this time every 12 years due to the poles flipping.

It just so happens that the next one is due on the 21/12/2012. That's a pretty big deal since the Galactic Alignment and a bunch of other things will all happen on the 21/12/2012.

This is where the question of what will happen in 2012 is coming from. You have a huge gravitational alignment in our galaxy by where everything will have reached the halfway point.

What effect will that have on earth ?.

If earth flips it's poles like the Sun will do then we are pretty much screwed. The gulf stream will stop and that pretty much regulates the entire planet and controls our weather system. It has happened before on earth and it will happen again. We are actually long over due and the range of events happening in 2012 which are all about cycles doesn't sit well with the faith of mankind.

Regards
Sharp
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[xmlguy]

The Sun does NOT flip its poles every 12 years. It does regularly flip its poles, but not like a clock with a period of a high degree of accuracy. You cannot take a calculated average and then use it for predictive periodic calculations. Plus the shift doesn't take place over a day, nor is it aligned with any specific date, and since it does occur on a continual basis (even though the timeframe varies considerably), there is no reason to think that our local solar fluctions have any bearing on any supposed galactic alignment.

The earths magnetic shifts have occurred before without killing off all life. Magnetic shifts do not stop the solar heat cycle on earth.

You ask what effect galactic alignment will have on earth? I fully expect that it will have a significant effect on the superstitious, delusional, schizophrenic, psycotic and other people than the rest of us. I lived only a few miles away from the Heaven's Gate Cult when they committed mass suicide due to their firm belief of the ramblings of their leader. I have seen the depths to which man can follow his superstitions to destruction. I expect that auto accidents, heart disease, and lung disease will kill a lot more humans than any galactic alignment that will occur in our lifetimes.

On new years eve 2013, I'll celebrate the safe passage into a new galactic period with a beer and a toast with anyone nearby me. I expect that will be the extent of it's effect on me.

[Sharp]

Hi xmlguy .

[xmlguy]

Hi Sharp,

I think you may have misinterpreted that article. It claims that the magnetic shift occurs like clockwork when reaching Solar Max. It does not claim that the period of the Solar Max is clockwork or accurately defined, and certainly not to a specific day of our year.

It's like saying that people use their keys like clockwork to open their door when they get home, but that is not saying that they get home with clockwork regularity. Solar maximums occur on a regular basis, but that period flucuates significantly. The predictability of the flipping of the magnetic field is circular reasoning, because that is an indicator that the sun is at solar max.

[Sharp]

Hi xmlguy.

[dreamaiden]

I watched the History Channel documentary on this some time back. I had not heard about it until then. By the end I was definitely feeling doomsday on the doorstep. But I shook it off quickly enough, agreeing with PianoManGidley to live for now, because tomorrow could the last day for any of us anyway. Life is fragile at best. Besides, I wasn't here before I was born and I won't be after I'm gone. (I do not plan to reincarnate. The few minutes in between are certainly a drop in a bucket.

The list of support for 2012 went way beyond the Mayans. It's been awhile so I can't remember the details but the list went on and on and it was a little too coincidental to ignore. What really got my attention was that the scientific community was on board with it.

The one relief was that some scientists suggested that we might go through it without much notice while others suggested that it could be cataclysmic. If it was cataclysmic it could be immediate or take years, decades or centuries for the full impact to take effect.

For example, before the dinosaur age there was a previous age (something else I didn't know for some reason). There was an underground volcano that erupted and then continued to erupt all across Samoa I believe it was. In the end, it was the poisonous gases that eventually caused the end of that age and only one species survived. This is from another History channel documentary. Point is, it took a long time for the volcano to cause extinction.

I find it all very interesting and of course hope it ends up being not much of anything.

[xmlguy]

The only alignment that has any known, established, significant affect on we humans are the alignment of our moon and the sun. The alignment of the rest have significance only to the superstitious and scientists calculating launches of landers and flyby craft. The alignment of your planets and "Constellations" with your birth have no significance either, while your mother's social class, income level and ingestion of meth, crack, alcohol, tobacco, or other substances will have a far more predictive outcome on your future, let me assure you of that.

For example, the future misbehavior, rebellion, and successfulness of the Jon & Kate 8 kids was probably significantly affected by the behavior of a Dad who left the home to be a filthy dawg. The alignment of the kids with the parents is the constellation that matters, not the alignment of Jupiter and Saturn, or our Galactic Alignment.

If our galaxy crashed into another one today, we still wouldn't know about it for up to another 100,000 years for the light to reach us. I expect we'll have figured out how to get out of the way by then, but in any case, that's their problem to solve, not ours.

Anyone have a good recipe for Galactic Alignment Fruit Punch? I'll take the unpoisoned non-suicidal version, thank you.

[Sharp]

Hi xmlguy.

I respect your option, but every scientist is in agreement that the galactic alignment is real and will happen in 2012. Yet you dismiss the entire concept of the alignment altogether.

Can you please explain what scientific facts your view is based on so I can understand where you are coming from on all this. I just want to try understand why you believe what you do.




Hi Susan.

[Timo]

I'm afraid I'll be in the same pub as XMLguy on New Years Eve 2013 having a drink and a chuckle.
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[Sharp]

[xmlguy]

[RiotNrrd]

While the gravitational effects of the galactic center are what keep our own sun spinning around the galaxy, its effects on us are so broad and so diffuse as to be essentially imperceptible. Will adding in the effects of the suns gravity make any difference as far as WE are concerned? Honestly, I doubt it.

I remember about twenty years ago, the big deal was the "Harmonic Convergence". A bunch of the planets in our solar system lined up (as seen from the Earth) in one small section of the sky. Now, those planets are a HECK of a lot closer to us than the galactic center, and if there were going to be any major gravitational anomalies, one would expect they would have been seen then. But they weren't. Really, nothing at all happened that could be directly attributed to the convergence.

This is just another Harmonic Convergence. It has about as much meaning as eclipses do, and probably will have less effect.

-----

On a side note, regarding the constellations in astrology: the signs and the constellations are not the same thing, although they have the same names. They have no relation to one another, EXCEPT as I describe below.

The first degree of Aries is defined as the point in the sky where the sun crosses the line of the equator extended out into space, moving from south to north (which occurs on or about March 21st of each year). The sign Aries occupies exactly 30 degrees, starting from that point. The next 30 degrees are Taurus, the next 30 degrees are Gemini, etc. Note that the constellations are not involved.

The reason that the signs and the constellations have the same names are because the signs were simply named after the constellations that happened to occupy the signs at the time when astrology was first being developed, several thousand years ago. Due to the precession of the equinoxes, the constellations are now out-of-sync with their namesake signs, and no longer occupy the same areas of the sky in relation to the equatorial line. However, this is not troubling to the astrologers, because they don't care about the constellations at all, and recognize that the signs refer to areas of space defined by the suns apparent path, and not the accidental star configurations that these areas were named after long ago.

In other words, the SIGN Aries has nothing to do with the CONSTELLATION Aries (and so on around the zodiacal circle), other than having contained it several thousand years ago, and thus been named after it.

I don't even believe in Astrology. I just get irritated when people bash on things for reasons that indicate that they don't actually know much about the subject they're bashing. There's plenty of things you can legitimately bash astrology with - the sign/constellation mismatch isn't actually one of them.