Kaossilator Pro - no "Fix" feature

[Radian]

On the little yellow beastie a phrase could be constructed by layering a new performance over what you had already built-up. Being a bit of an imprecise science (playing with a touchpad) it was essential that the phrase could be "fixed" such that the most recent overdub could *easily* be erased until you were happy with it...

Now I've spent a day with the Pro and I'm totally stumped. It seems that the only way to "undo" a botched overdub on a loop bank is to erase and start all over again - or save your progress in a given bank to SD card and re-load every time you bomb. Anyone, like me, used to using the "Fix" function of the first Kaossilator will probably find this a huge creative bottleneck.

I have to admit I was assuming the K-Pro would borrow from the KP3 in that playback could be be recorded thus making it possible to bounce loops and overdubs into another bank until you get it right.

It seems instead that you're either expected to be able to rattle-off a perfect overdub every-time, or limit yourself to four layers of sounds so as not to risk spoiling anything. This pretty much guarantees frustration whichever way you go. An external sampler could be used (e.g. KP3) but that's a big extension to recover the simple "Fix" function of the cheap and cheerful Kaossilator. Am I missing something here?

[X-Trade]

It has already been mentioned that this feature was dropped in favour of having four different loopers.

On the KO1, there were effectively two looper memories - one keeping the current loop, and one keeping the loop you had before you made the last recording to it.

For the KOPro to have this functionality, it would need four times as much memory, so I'm fairly sure this feature was dropped for hardware limitation reasons.

But you can practise a line before adding it - you don't have to be recording the whole time!

[Radian]

But you can practise a line before adding it - you don't have to be recording the whole time!

Thanks, but really don't think this answers it. I'm just not skilled enough. Switching from practice to record is all too often jinxed.

I don't understand those arguments about memory limitation. OK, keeping an "undo" buffer for each bank would *double* the memory, but at worst the option to limit from 4 measures to 2 could have been retained to make this hardware "cost free" (it was an "unofficial feature" of the original Kaossilator).

However, re-sampling (KP3 style) would seem only to be a routing issue and would transform the usability. I now see that I'm not the only one raising this issue - it seems to be a FAQ already.

[Kaoss Elation]

It seems that the only way to "undo" a botched overdub on a loop bank is to erase and start all over again - or save your progress in a given bank to SD card and re-load every time you bomb. Anyone, like me, used to using the "Fix" function of the first Kaossilator will probably find this a huge creative bottleneck.

Well, it may be overstating it to say its a huge creative bottleneck but I do agree it would be great to be able to resample loops across banks. But you can always do the difficult lines (more lead type instruments) in a separate loop bank. I find it easier to get drum and "noise" parts ok but lead instruments are harder. So with the KPro you can built up a basic beat in one loop bank and then add the harder stuff in the three others, which you could not do with the Kaossilator. You could then mix these together in a DAW and reload as a single loop into a loop bank.

I find the four loop banks and the ability to save/export a big advantage over the original Kaossilator. You could use the K1 into the KPro as well....

[Radian]

Well, it may be overstating it to say its a huge creative bottleneck but I do agree it would be great to be able to resample loops across banks. But you can always do the difficult lines (more lead type instruments) in a separate loop bank. I find it easier to get drum and "noise" parts ok but lead instruments are harder. So with the KPro you can built up a basic beat in one loop bank and then add the harder stuff in the three others, which you could not do with the Kaossilator. You could then mix these together in a DAW and reload as a single loop into a loop bank.

Your methods make sense, I have already sort of figured them out for myself. But there's always going to be a wide range of "performance skill" levels among users, and I'm sure for many the particular appeal of the Kaossilator concept is that you don't need keyboard skills. IMHO this also makes good "undo-ability" a natural requirement from the product. I guess the developers were well-practised by the time they put together the Pro and thus the priority may have slipped. I still think this is a big deal.

[JJP]

Well, it may be overstating it to say its a huge creative bottleneck but I do agree it would be great to be able to resample loops across banks.

HEY KORG! There just has to be a way to bounce loops from one bank to another! Otherwise.... ah I hate you. I really still want the Kpro that I allready ordered but.... Korg said, that Korg listened to the users and implented the "save" function. Yes, well done, nice. But you still can't record a whole performance on the fly, neither can you really use the save/load function live, because it is way to slow. And taking away the fix, WITHOUT giving us something compareable is unfair.

Ah, I feel better now.

btw: can you use the effects/vocoders on the loops or only on input?

[Radian]

JJP - it seems the provision of four separate loop banks was supposed to gives us something comparable to the old "Fix" facility. No matter how often I hear this, it doesn't wash. I want those extra banks to hold variations of the phrase so I can switch them in and out on the fly...

...and this is another problem that keeps tripping me up...

...briefly pressing a bank button to introduce a part while you're improvising on the pad records a glitch into that part. I think it's fair to assume that plenty of people will play the Pro likes this - particularly if they're used to jamming with the KP3. You have to remember to take your finger off the pad while switching and that's a lot easier said than done.

[Radian]

btw: can you use the effects/vocoders on the loops or only on input?

Just the external input. Of course if it was possible to re-sample internal playback into a bank it might be possible to vocode it on the way, but that'd be the icing on the cake.

[Kaoss Elation]

...briefly pressing a bank button to introduce a part while you're improvising on the pad records a glitch into that part. I think it's fair to assume that plenty of people will play the Pro likes this - particularly if they're used to jamming with the KP3. You have to remember to take your finger off the pad while switching and that's a lot easier said than done.

Interesting. I have only had a couple of short sessions on mine and I was getting a glitch (sounded like a recorded click) sometimes when recording and hadn't tracked down what was going on - this could be it.

[Radian]

Interesting. I have only had a couple of short sessions on mine and I was getting a glitch (sounded like a recorded click) sometimes when recording and hadn't tracked down what was going on - this could be it.

It almost certainly is. I've yet to complete a session without it happening at least once. In a random kind of way it's good for IDM creations, but that's trying pretty hard to see on the bright side.

[JJP]

btw: can you use the effects/vocoders on the loops or only on input?

Just the external input. Of course if it was possible to re-sample internal playback into a bank it might be possible to vocode it on the way, but that'd be the icing on the cake.

thats SOOO lame. If you buy two Kpros (com'on its just ~700€/$) you can do EVERYTHING you want. Vocode the loops. pitch loops (you rly can not pitch and stuff? use the effects beside the vocoders?). bounce banks. double loops and change one. and and and.

so unfair

[slipperyjim]

This is really annoying. I noticed that the fix feature was missing but assumed that it was because there was an alternative mechanism like copying across loop banks. Evidently not.

With the price of memory these days, why do we have memory limitations? For that matter, why isn't it all non-volatile?

Happy with the unit I have but I'm beginning to suspect that Korg haven't really thought about how to upgrade the yellow box but rather have thought how can we milk the KP3 design and sell it to the KO community with a minimum of firmware changes and some different colour LEDs?

[Radian]

If you buy two Kpros (com'on its just ~700€/$) you can do EVERYTHING you want. Vocode the loops. pitch loops... ...bounce banks. double loops and change one. and and and.

I don't know whether to damn you or Korg! (both I suppose) But that's one heck of an observation. Sit a KP3 between two KPro's and you've got a monster.

[JJP]

If you buy two Kpros (com'on its just ~700€/$) you can do EVERYTHING you want. Vocode the loops. pitch loops... ...bounce banks. double loops and change one. and and and.

I don't know whether to damn you or Korg! (both I suppose) But that's one heck of an observation. Sit a KP3 between two KPro's and you've got a monster.

Maybe it is possible to fix our fix problem with a firmware update. I can not afford buying a few other Kaoss-gadgets only to bounce banks . And even if, I would prefer havin ONE instrument. It should be no Problem to get KP3 and KPro in one shell. WITH bounce and the other wanted functions. And if they are doing this, they should use a multi-touch surface, we would be able to play chors without midi input then. (but with a switch to change between multi and single touch, some things are impossible with multi-touch).

why have they done so much right with the microSAMPLER (which is not much more expensive. okay they forgot to ad drumpads and so on. korg forgets a lot it seems) and so much wrong (despite the great work. 4 loopbanks are super great! line-in! mic-in! THX 4 that!) with the Kpro..
seeing this makes me so jealous - 99bars !! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qh5q8iea ... re=channel

btw: Would you mind trying mono-bouncing with line-in to line-out with a crossed-mono setting like line-out right channel to line-in left channel? or will this only result in feeback again?

[Mr36]

My guess is that it will only feed back if the volume of the recording bank is up. If it's set as low as it will go, it will surely just record and be ready for you to turn the volume up after you've stopped the original bank. No?

Although the ability to just bounce from bank to bank would be a very welcome addition. But I have no idea how difficult it would be to implement via firmware update. Hopefully not too difficult...

And I agree, it is quite annoying that it is limited so much when it seems like it shouldn't have to be. 99 bars would be great but all I'd want is 32 and I'd be happy. 16 just isn't always enough.