OASYS + Mediastation = The Future Now.

[Sharp]

Hi guys.

I just want to share my feelings on this because I think for the first time ever I am utterly content with my sound and the ability of the two keyboards I have. Obviously it started when I got the OASYS as I downsized my Studio heavily because I felt HD-1 made everything else PCM based I owned at the time obsolete, and all the other engines gave me the tools to be ultra creative when designing sounds. That and the clarity of the OASYS sound and it's ability to be used in a mix without ever giving me problems with the spectrum being overloaded and muddy makes the OASYS an utter dream machine to work with on countless levels. Truly a KORG masterpiece of the highest order that is so good sounding it's almost impossible to explain to anyone who does not own an OASYS.

However, regardless of the label it once had, it is not an open keyboard, not even close, and it is something that KORG were able to discontinue unexpectedly which has also defined the value of the investment in the OASYS. I'm not going to list out the points and reason why because it's been said countless times on the forum and at the end of the day, it is what it is and at this point I'm happy with that and I do love the OASYS for all it is.

That said though, this is where the Mediastation steps in as the perfect companion.

From an investment point of view first, the Mediastation is a true Open keyboard that is technically unlimited. To be more accurate, my unit in it's current configuration is only limited by the speed and ability of the CPU, Motherboard and RAM that's installed. If years from now I need more power I can just replace those parts and I have a current model again. The Lionstracs OS is open ended and those who bought a keyboard 6 years ago are still getting free OS updates, the exact same OS updates the people with the latest keyboards are getting. Beyond that again you then have the fully open part of the system which allows you to install your own software or favourite programs, VSTi's or massive Giga Libraries. So even if at some point Lionstracs stop developing the OS for my model, the system is still open always to accept new software.

It offers way more than just a PC too. The Lionstracs OS allows you to integrate anything new you install with the custom Lionstracs interface. When I select sound for example from massive giga libraries, I do not load any software or have to interact with a PC interface. I select the sounds no differently than I do on my OASYS. So you do get the tight integration of a closed system, plus all the benefits of an open system at the same time. Dedicated buttons control everything too which makes operation of the system extremely tightly integrated. I can call entire VSTi's setups at the press of a single button and jump between multi setups at the press of a button.

Now pair all that with the OASYS and where do you go after that ?

It's got to be one of the most powerful combinations of technology around. Open Labs don't even fit into this as an alternative because they are not even close to being as tightly integrated at the OS level as Liosntracs keyboards. An Open Labs keybaord is for the most part just a PC in a keyboard assembly.

Maybe in the future KORG will take the OASYS concept and allow it to evolve into a true open keyboard with all the benefits of OASYS technology, but at this moment in time I have to say that I must have the ultimate setup anyone could have right now and I feel like telling people about it.

Bottom line... KORG + Lionstracs = The future now.

Regards
Sharp.

[Kevin Nolan]

Hi Sharp -

Thanks for your very insightful post. I have to admit to checking out this company - and passing - when you mentioned them before, but given the longevity, flexibility and stability you seem to have achieved, you've definitely tweaked my interest.

Could you elaborate on the following points. Please note that even if answers are not favourable, they won't necessarily constitute a reason to pass (for me) - we've all had to live with the limitations of the OASYS and put in long hours to get it to work for our own workflow:


1. Can you give the CPU, RAM and Hard Disk spec of yours?

2. What OS is it running?

3. Do you install / upgrade the OS separately or does this come integrated with the system?

4. Can you install VST's such as Arturia CS80V, Jupiter8V and so on? What about iLok and dongle requirements?

5. Can you give an example of a VSTi you’re running on it and indicate its performance and usage:
- numbers of voice polyphony
- latency
- editing procedure (touch screen? Mouse? Physical controllers?)
- storage of new programs – within the VSTi or on the workstation?
- number of simultaneous VSTi’s realistically runnable at one time

6. Could you give an indication as to how much work – numbers of hours – you need to well integrate a 3rd party VSTi into the system? Any particular frustrations in this regard (unaccessible functionality...). In particular - what effort is needed to map physicl controllers to editable paramaters, and how well does this work out in practice?

7. You mention Giga sample libraries a lot but of course they are now gone. What about more modern sample libraries and even those that require say a Kontakt front end – can these be incorporated?

8. What about integration of NI Komplete in particular – can this be loaded up and used?

9. Integration with a DAW – can the workstation integrate well in this
regard? What about USB backup to computer or HD. And – if you design VSTi programs on the workstation, can these be loaded into a VSTi instance on a computer.

10. What about loading dedicated Piano libraries, say from VSL? I could imagine this being an awesome package if one of the top end Piano Sample Libraries could be loaded into it and playable with near zero latency - is this possible?

11. while you mention the possibility of upgrading the CPU and motherboard inthe future - I amd many like me do not want to get into that. So does the company itself offer upgrade options in this regrad?

Thanks,
Kevin.

[curvebender]

You forgot the most obvious question: why did Liontracs fire everyone from the industrial design departement?..

Their products look absolutely horrific, and they don't exactly invoke a sense of professional quality in me. (Same could be said, but to a lesser degree, about that other all-in-one-box manufacturer.)

I was going to write "it's all about the sound, who cares about what it looks like", but that isn't true, is it?

Having said this, I'm glad Sharp is happy with his purchase!

[Kevin Nolan]

You forgot the most obvious question: why did Liontracs fire everyone from the industrial design departement?..

Curvebender - why should I have asked this question and why is it obvious? Is the company in trouble and is that well known? Would definitely like to know of any trouble in that company, that would put a different slant on their products.

While I felt a bit like you and wasn't that impressed before, if their instruments can load, for example VST's like NI and Arturia synths, and awesome piano libbraries and deliver high polyphony at very low latency, I would be quite intrested to explore their offerings.

I believe that the first company to provide a hardware keyboars solution - akin to this workstation or openlabs stuff but with the far more classy and robust feel of an OASYS - that allows people to take their studio VSTi's and AU plugins on the road and on stage in a worktation format; could attract new attention and new markets. But it would have to deliver high VSTi/AU note count (perhaps >256 note polyphony) at near zero latency. The first company to provide that sort of truly reliable, classy solution in a workstation will surely redefine the future of the keyboard-workstation-synthesizer?? So I'm very keen for Sharp to answer the questions above to see if this one comes close.

Cheers,
Kevin.

[curvebender]

Hey Kevin,

I was just being a bit sarcastic when I asked why you hadn't asked the obvious. Sorry if this looked like I was truly trying to imply that you had forgot a question!

And the sarcasm went on as I wondered if people had been fired from the company. I was trying to put words on my feelings in regard to the toy-like appearance of the instrument.

Ok, today was my big sarcasm day!

[Kevin Nolan]

Doh!

- Bit slow on the uptake but I get you now - sorry the sarcasm went over my head!

I agree- they do NOT inspire confidence in the 'looks' department.

Cheers,
Kevin.

[peter m. mahr]

Curvebender,

completely agree - industrial design is nothing but a tragedy @ lionstracs. Although I do not like Axel Hartmann as a person, but some if his designs are really good. Whereas Lionstracs keyboards look like a nightmare.

Peter

[curvebender]

Curvebender,

completely agree - industrial design is nothing but a tragedy @ lionstracs. Although I do not like Axel Hartmann as a person, but some if his designs are really good. Whereas Lionstracs keyboards look like a nightmare.

Peter

I love what he did with the Andromeda. A bit intimidating at first, but very organic.

[Sharp]

Hi Kevin.

1. Can you give the CPU, RAM and Hard Disk spec of yours?

Dual Core 2.8Ghz running at true 64Bit.
4GB DDR2
500GB 7200RPM HDD

On the RAM, 4GB is enough for me as everything sample based is streamed.

2. What OS is it running?

Linux is the platform the Lionstracs OS runs on, with Wine.

So you can access everything Linux has to offer, Lionstracs OS, and Wine to run Windows software all at the same time.

3. Do you install / upgrade the OS separately or does this come integrated with the system?

Linux and Lionstracs OS are integrated so installing the OS on a blank machine is childs play. You don't have to configure a single thing or deal with trying to configure anything on the system at all. Well, not unless you want to.

When updating the OS you can do it two ways. A Full install which overwrites all your files, or you can just use the update method which keeps all your data and personal settings intact.

4. Can you install VST's such as Arturia CS80V, Jupiter8V and so on? What about iLok and dongle requirements?

You can install anything on it that does not require iLok. Challenge response works without a hitch.

5. Can you give an example of a VSTi you’re running on it and indicate its performance and usage:

I've quite a lot installed at the moment, too many to list out.
KORG Digital Legacy (M1 & Wavestation).
NI B3
FM7
FM8
Superwave P8
Sampleloard
Mr Ray

and so on.......

I use these in conjunction with Linux Sampler for streaming Giga files. Poly for Linux Sampler is in the hundreds, and I've no real idea what I'm getting out of VSTi's. It's not easy to calculate the poly.

I'd have to be running a number of hungry plugins at the same time to start to notice problems. Bearing in mind though that I only have a dual core machine. It's more than enough for me, but if your someone who eats CPU cycles for breakfast, then you can simply go with a faster machine.

If in time I find I need more power I can simply pull the motherboard, CPU and RAM.

- latency

By default the buffers are set to 128 which gives me in around 2ms, but everything including Poly is set by software so I've modified the system files to run at 256 to give me extra poly. So I'm not sure what the latency is right now, guess it's in around 3 to 4ms.

- editing procedure (touch screen? Mouse? Physical controllers?)

Everything you just mentioned can be used. I also wrote a program for the keyboard that allows you to integrate the sound selection of VSTi's programs with the Liosntracs interface. It's also a content management program. Free too.


Because the system is truly open, it's possible to write and run programs to do anything you want to modify the system. I've already been looking at writing an editor for modifying system files which will allow me to modify things like controllers and so on on the fly.

storage of new programs – within the VSTi or on the workstation?

Giga's are direct from the Lionstracs OS, VSTi programs must be stored within the VSTi, but they can be recalled from the Lionstracs display and this memory is unlimited.

number of simultaneous VSTi’s realistically runnable at one time

Haven't got a clue as it depends on what your running. I'd say you can expect the same numbers of simultaneous VSTi’s as you would get running under Windows at 64Bit. Maybe even slightly less if your running all Windows VSTi's on the keyboard as everything they will be run under Wine.

Wine will very likely eat some cpu cycles.

6. Could you give an indication as to how much work – numbers of hours – you need to well integrate a 3rd party VSTi into the system? Any particular frustrations in this regard (unaccessible functionality...). In particular - what effort is needed to map physicl controllers to editable paramaters, and how well does this work out in practice?

If you just do a straight install it will run as good as it would on any Windows PC. The controllers are already mapped to specific CC values, so they too will automatically have a certain level of function. If you want to get into specifics then the files that defined the controllers would need to be modified.

This is something I'm going to add to my program very soon to make it a lot easier.

As for selecting sounds direct from the Lionstracs OS and away from the VSTi display, my program can generate that data in seconds.

I've already uploaded the files for a large number of VSTi's, and when you download a copy of my program, it comes already populated with data so you can modify the content at any point without having to modify system files yourself.

Again.. this can be expanded in the future to do more.

7. You mention Giga sample libraries a lot but of course they are now gone. What about more modern sample libraries and even those that require say a Kontakt front end – can these be incorporated?

You can install whatever you want on it and just use my progarm to make the files for the Lionstracs sound selection display.

I just use the default Linux Sampler and convert my data to Gig format because it's just easier and my editor is able to edit every aspect of the system files for that format.

Here's a screen shot of the program.

8. What about integration of NI Komplete in particular – can this be loaded up and used?

Should work fine as the registration is challenge response. To integrate it with the Lionstracs sound selection screens you would just need to use my program.

9. Integration with a DAW – can the workstation integrate well in this
regard? What about USB backup to computer or HD. And – if you design VSTi programs on the workstation, can these be loaded into a VSTi instance on a computer.

Well it is itself a DAW so in this regard just look at it from the same point of view as connecting two PC's together.

Connect it to your network and you won't even have to use USB to backup and transfer files, even though you can. You could just transfer everything across the network.

Heck you can even surf the Net or run Photoshop on it if you want.

10. What about loading dedicated Piano libraries, say from VSL? I could imagine this being an awesome package if one of the top end Piano Sample Libraries could be loaded into it and playable with near zero latency - is this possible?

Pianoteq runs like a dream. The only thing that is going to really stop you from installing whatever you want on the keyboard is the security in the software. Your pretty much screwed when it comes to iLok as iLok only supports Windows.

Challenge response will work fine.

11. while you mention the possibility of upgrading the CPU and motherboard inthe future - I amd many like me do not want to get into that. So does the company itself offer upgrade options in this regrad?

I believe you can buy things like the Graphics Card and Mother boards direct. They also sell RAID kits for those wanting massive bandwidth for streaming.

All custom boards are also sold direct. So yes, you can buy a certain amount direct, something things though you will likely need to buy from your local PC store.

Cheers
Sharp.

[Sharp]

Curvebender,

completely agree - industrial design is nothing but a tragedy @ lionstracs. Although I do not like Axel Hartmann as a person, but some if his designs are really good. Whereas Lionstracs keyboards look like a nightmare.

Peter

Looks are something that could be greatly improved on for sure, but ultimately it's not going to make it sound any better

Feature wise, I don't think anyone could deny that these are mighty powerful instruments. Open Labs are not even remotely close to matching the level of integration Lionstracs have.

It's a tough one. Would the look of something that is so good really put you off the idea of owning one ?

Regards
Sharp.

[peter m. mahr]

Hi Sharp,

to me haptics are of importance as well as a good design. Both are not on top of the list, but they are in the upper range. You are right, it does not make the instrument itself sound better... but the way how I react and find my way thru the parameters to get the sound I want.

There is no doubt, especially after reading the specs you posted, that this is a very powerful "intrument". But I want to get at least the feeling to touch an instrument and not a computer. OASYS is great in doing this. I never had the feeling - maybe beside the update procedure - that I was working with a PC.

Regards,
Peter

[Sharp]

Hi Peter.

But I want to get at least the feeling to touch an instrument and not a computer.

I understand but an instrument is what it is though. This keyboard does not work like Open Labs keyboards at all which are truly only really a PC in a keyboard body. It does not work like a DAW either even though it has all the function of one.

Anyone here will tell you, I don't like PC's for music at all. Never have and never will because I don't think they are productive tools at all. It's something I've said on the forum a lot over the years.

The Lionstracs system is different. You get all the benefits of a closed keyboard as in the deep integration of all the systems, but you have all the flexibility of a true open keyboard. It truly is the best of both worlds. It just takes a little time to setup something new that you instal to get it deeply integrated into the system.

I can for example at the press of one single button have KORG Digital Legacy Collection loaded, and all the sounds will be displayed on the screen just like you see sounds on your OASYS. I won't even see the VSTi at all unless I want to recall that screen.

So for the most part you do not even see the software your running. Everything runs direct from the Lionstracs interface just like a closed keyboard works.


The only time it looks like a PC is when you intentionally leave the Lionstracs Interface and the only time your going to really need to do that is if your installing something new, or you want to use it as a PC to surf the net or something.

Regards
Sharp.

[peter m. mahr]

Hi Sharp,

not that I am at the moment looking for a new keyboard, especially after I have taken a step in the opposite direction with the CP1. But now you made me curious.

Peter

[UCanDream]

Hey Sharp.

Thanks for the detail oriented post. I actually had an opportunity to buy one of these a year ago from a guy in Ohio but I wasn't sure that it wasn't just some glamorous modern-tech Casio amped up on CPU crack or something. I also didn't realize that you owned one. That adds some measure of credibility to Lionstracs as far as I'm concerned. Cool stuff buddy. Also, I got a look at your unit on YouTube. I personally think the MediaStation looks pretty decent. I'm curious, what's up with all the dudes getting fired from the company?


Anyway, thanks again.
UCanDream

[Sharp]

I'm curious, what's up with all the dudes getting fired from the company?

Are you sure it's Lionstracs ?
I never heard anything myself about people getting laid off.

Cheers
Sharp.