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jimknopf Platinum Member
Joined: 17 Jan 2011 Posts: 3374
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Posted: Mon Aug 08, 2011 4:44 pm Post subject: |
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How big are chances that you get a shutdown PLUS a UPS failure?
Without SSD, and only flash memory and RAM on board (very small RAM in Yamahas case), you can forget about fast streaming of big sample libraries, and flash memory alone is simply not big enough for using these libraries without streaming. _________________ Kronos 73 - Moog Voyager RME - Moog LP TE - Behringer Model D - Prophet 6 - Roland Jupiter Xm - Rhodes Stage 73 Mk I - Elektron Analog Rytm MkII - Roland TR-6s - Cubase 12 Pro + Groove Agent 5 |
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EvilDragon Platinum Member
Joined: 24 Nov 2005 Posts: 1992 Location: Croatia
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Posted: Mon Aug 08, 2011 4:47 pm Post subject: |
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jimknopf wrote: | How big are chances that you get a shutdown PLUS a UPS failure? |
Small, but you never know!
jimknopf wrote: | Without SSD, and only flash memory and RAM on board (very small RAM in Yamahas case), you can forget about fast streaming of big sample libraries, and flash memory alone is simply not big enough for using these libraries without streaming. |
I'm not talking about Yamaha here. There's perfectly fast flash memory out there that can be used for fast sample streaming. It's the same tech basically. |
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panrixx Senior Member
Joined: 13 May 2011 Posts: 448 Location: Tamar Valley, Cornwall, UK
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Posted: Mon Aug 08, 2011 4:50 pm Post subject: |
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jimknopf wrote: | How big are chances that you get a shutdown PLUS a UPS failure? | Probably as much chance as winning the Euromillions lottery _________________ Rhodes 73 Mk1; Kronos 88; Synthex; Electribe EMX-1; Motif XS Rack; Yamaha DX7IIFD; Yamaha MM8; Roland Alpha Juno-2; Roland JV-2080; Tascam FW-1884. |
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jimknopf Platinum Member
Joined: 17 Jan 2011 Posts: 3374
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Posted: Mon Aug 08, 2011 4:52 pm Post subject: |
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@evildragon
Streaming is something else by definition:
- it means loading from disk or SSD while playing.
I would really like to see how much 10 Gb of flash memory or more would cost, and how looooong it would take to write Gbytes of sample memory (and with any change or update again) to it. _________________ Kronos 73 - Moog Voyager RME - Moog LP TE - Behringer Model D - Prophet 6 - Roland Jupiter Xm - Rhodes Stage 73 Mk I - Elektron Analog Rytm MkII - Roland TR-6s - Cubase 12 Pro + Groove Agent 5 |
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EvilDragon Platinum Member
Joined: 24 Nov 2005 Posts: 1992 Location: Croatia
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Posted: Mon Aug 08, 2011 4:53 pm Post subject: |
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I know what streaming is. |
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NuSkoolTone Approved Merchant
Joined: 19 Mar 2007 Posts: 1069
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Posted: Mon Aug 08, 2011 6:39 pm Post subject: |
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Really? There's no access to the SSD other than recording audio and the pre-load libraries? I find that hard to believe as that would be a pretty MAJOR omission IMO.
I figured it'd be a GIVEN to be able to at least store your samples on the SSD. Maybe not stream (Hopefully eventually) but at least to store! _________________ Korg: KRONOS 73, M50-61, 01W/r
Yamaha: Motif XS7, FS1R
Kawai K5000S, Roland JD-990 w/Vintage Synth |
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danatkorg Product Manager, Korg R&D
Joined: 21 Jan 2005 Posts: 4204 Location: California, USA
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Posted: Mon Aug 08, 2011 6:40 pm Post subject: |
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EvilDragon wrote: | Na, I'm talking having only flash memory instead of SSD (well, they're basically very similar things).
Well, perhaps if SpIdErWeB manages to put a way faster SSD in Kronos and confirms it would make the booting much faster, that could change my mind. Then the question remains why Korg didn't put a faster SSD there in the first place. |
If I may interject, a better question would be whether the SSD is in fact slow.
The answer: it's not, or it wouldn't have been usable for our purpose - and wouldn't have provided 100 quad-channel voices for the SGX-1.
Is it the fastest possibly available, at any cost?
Nope, it's not that either - for reasons noted by others above. _________________ Dan Phillips
Manager of Product Development, Korg R&D
Personal website: www.danphillips.com
For technical support, please contact your Korg Distributor: http://www.korg.co.jp/English/Distributors/
Regretfully, I cannot offer technical support directly.
If you need to contact me for purposes other than technical support, please do not send PMs; instead, send email to dan@korgrd.com |
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danatkorg Product Manager, Korg R&D
Joined: 21 Jan 2005 Posts: 4204 Location: California, USA
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Posted: Mon Aug 08, 2011 6:41 pm Post subject: |
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NuSkoolTone wrote: | Really? There's no access to the SSD other than recording audio and the pre-load libraries? I find that hard to believe as that would be a pretty MAJOR omission IMO.
I figured it'd be a GIVEN to be able to at least store your samples on the SSD. Maybe not stream (Hopefully eventually) but at least to store! |
Yes, you can store user samples on the SSD.
- Dan _________________ Dan Phillips
Manager of Product Development, Korg R&D
Personal website: www.danphillips.com
For technical support, please contact your Korg Distributor: http://www.korg.co.jp/English/Distributors/
Regretfully, I cannot offer technical support directly.
If you need to contact me for purposes other than technical support, please do not send PMs; instead, send email to dan@korgrd.com |
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EvilDragon Platinum Member
Joined: 24 Nov 2005 Posts: 1992 Location: Croatia
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Posted: Mon Aug 08, 2011 6:46 pm Post subject: |
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danatkorg wrote: | EvilDragon wrote: | Na, I'm talking having only flash memory instead of SSD (well, they're basically very similar things).
Well, perhaps if SpIdErWeB manages to put a way faster SSD in Kronos and confirms it would make the booting much faster, that could change my mind. Then the question remains why Korg didn't put a faster SSD there in the first place. |
If I may interject, a better question would be whether the SSD is in fact slow.
The answer: it's not, or it wouldn't have been usable for our purpose - and wouldn't have provided 100 quad-channel voices for the SGX-1.
Is it the fastest possibly available, at any cost?
Nope, it's not that either - for reasons noted by others above. |
If it's fast enough for streaming quite a good deal of voices (my guess - somewhere around 120-150 MB/s mark, since it's a 2009 Toshiba SSD, so that's an older generation of SSDs), then I wonder why the hell is the boot up so slow, and what could be done to put it under a minute with fullest preload possible (@4 GB RAM). |
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danatkorg Product Manager, Korg R&D
Joined: 21 Jan 2005 Posts: 4204 Location: California, USA
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Posted: Mon Aug 08, 2011 6:55 pm Post subject: |
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EvilDragon wrote: | danatkorg wrote: | EvilDragon wrote: | Na, I'm talking having only flash memory instead of SSD (well, they're basically very similar things).
Well, perhaps if SpIdErWeB manages to put a way faster SSD in Kronos and confirms it would make the booting much faster, that could change my mind. Then the question remains why Korg didn't put a faster SSD there in the first place. |
If I may interject, a better question would be whether the SSD is in fact slow.
The answer: it's not, or it wouldn't have been usable for our purpose - and wouldn't have provided 100 quad-channel voices for the SGX-1.
Is it the fastest possibly available, at any cost?
Nope, it's not that either - for reasons noted by others above. |
If it's fast enough for streaming quite a good deal of voices (my guess - somewhere around 120-150 MB/s mark, since it's a 2009 Toshiba SSD, so that's an older generation of SSDs), then I wonder why the hell is the boot up so slow, and what could be done to put it under a minute with fullest preload possible (@4 GB RAM). |
Booting and loading takes time on any system. Loading a ton of samples in soft-samplers on my Mac Pro takes a while, too (wait until all samples are actually loaded - some popular software will start playing before they are, resulting in some notes not sounding correctly when first played). _________________ Dan Phillips
Manager of Product Development, Korg R&D
Personal website: www.danphillips.com
For technical support, please contact your Korg Distributor: http://www.korg.co.jp/English/Distributors/
Regretfully, I cannot offer technical support directly.
If you need to contact me for purposes other than technical support, please do not send PMs; instead, send email to dan@korgrd.com |
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EvilDragon Platinum Member
Joined: 24 Nov 2005 Posts: 1992 Location: Croatia
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Posted: Mon Aug 08, 2011 7:07 pm Post subject: |
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That's where Kontakt's background loading feature is a bliss. You can continue working while the samples load. And if you have a good hard drive, they load FAST! The good thing about this is that Kontakt tracks your usage of the samples it loads, so those that are more often used get loaded with first priority. |
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amosdef Junior Member
Joined: 17 May 2011 Posts: 79 Location: New York, USA
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Posted: Mon Aug 08, 2011 7:42 pm Post subject: |
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EvilDragon wrote: | That's where Kontakt's background loading feature is a bliss. You can continue working while the samples load. And if you have a good hard drive, they load FAST! The good thing about this is that Kontakt tracks your usage of the samples it loads, so those that are more often used get loaded with first priority. |
I would love to have something like this in the Kronos eventually. Something like loading the last selected program/combi/etc, then loading the rest in the background (if the OS even supports such a thing). While I plan on using a UPS with the Kronos when playing live, it would still be a useful feature for me. _________________ Amos
www.amishoutlaws.com |
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GregC Platinum Member
Joined: 15 May 2002 Posts: 9451 Location: Discovery Bay (San Francisco Bay Area)
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Posted: Mon Aug 08, 2011 9:25 pm Post subject: |
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EvilDragon wrote: | danatkorg wrote: | EvilDragon wrote: | Na, I'm talking having only flash memory instead of SSD (well, they're basically very similar things).
Well, perhaps if SpIdErWeB manages to put a way faster SSD in Kronos and confirms it would make the booting much faster, that could change my mind. Then the question remains why Korg didn't put a faster SSD there in the first place. |
If I may interject, a better question would be whether the SSD is in fact slow.
The answer: it's not, or it wouldn't have been usable for our purpose - and wouldn't have provided 100 quad-channel voices for the SGX-1.
Is it the fastest possibly available, at any cost?
Nope, it's not that either - for reasons noted by others above. |
If it's fast enough for streaming quite a good deal of voices (my guess - somewhere around 120-150 MB/s mark, since it's a 2009 Toshiba SSD, so that's an older generation of SSDs), then I wonder why the hell is the boot up so slow, and what could be done to put it under a minute with fullest preload possible (@4 GB RAM). |
Things to do while waiting for 1 minute 48 second bootup:
1) microwave a cheeseburger
2) read a Kurzweil promo
3) beat the same horse on the Internet
_________________ Kronos 88. MODX8
Achieve your musical dreams
https://soundcloud.com/user-898236994 |
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burningbusch Approved Merchant
Joined: 30 Jan 2005 Posts: 1203 Location: Seattle
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Posted: Mon Aug 08, 2011 9:45 pm Post subject: |
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EvilDragon wrote: | That's where Kontakt's background loading feature is a bliss. You can continue working while the samples load. And if you have a good hard drive, they load FAST! The good thing about this is that Kontakt tracks your usage of the samples it loads, so those that are more often used get loaded with first priority. |
The samples aren't stable until they're fully loaded. If you play them while they're loading it will glitch. I only wait until everything is loaded before I do anything with it other than play around a bit.
Korg's system with SSD is a significantly better than the flash systems of Yamaha and Kurzweil, IMO. The Motif XF takes close to a minute to load with 2GB of Flash installed.
Busch. |
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EvilDragon Platinum Member
Joined: 24 Nov 2005 Posts: 1992 Location: Croatia
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Posted: Mon Aug 08, 2011 10:04 pm Post subject: |
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As I said, Kontakt tracks the usage of samples. So the most often played samples get loaded first, and if you play them when loading, they won't glitch. This method never glitched for me.
My PC3K8 is ready to go in 20 seconds. I like that. |
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