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Kronos with no Flash Memory?
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jimknopf
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 08, 2011 4:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

How big are chances that you get a shutdown PLUS a UPS failure?

Without SSD, and only flash memory and RAM on board (very small RAM in Yamahas case), you can forget about fast streaming of big sample libraries, and flash memory alone is simply not big enough for using these libraries without streaming.
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EvilDragon
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 08, 2011 4:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

jimknopf wrote:
How big are chances that you get a shutdown PLUS a UPS failure?


Small, but you never know!

jimknopf wrote:
Without SSD, and only flash memory and RAM on board (very small RAM in Yamahas case), you can forget about fast streaming of big sample libraries, and flash memory alone is simply not big enough for using these libraries without streaming.


I'm not talking about Yamaha here. There's perfectly fast flash memory out there that can be used for fast sample streaming. It's the same tech basically.
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panrixx
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 08, 2011 4:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

jimknopf wrote:
How big are chances that you get a shutdown PLUS a UPS failure?
Probably as much chance as winning the Euromillions lottery Rolling Eyes
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jimknopf
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 08, 2011 4:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

@evildragon
Streaming is something else by definition:
- it means loading from disk or SSD while playing.

I would really like to see how much 10 Gb of flash memory or more would cost, and how looooong it would take to write Gbytes of sample memory (and with any change or update again) to it. Laughing
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EvilDragon
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 08, 2011 4:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I know what streaming is.
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NuSkoolTone
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 08, 2011 6:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Really? There's no access to the SSD other than recording audio and the pre-load libraries? I find that hard to believe as that would be a pretty MAJOR omission IMO.

I figured it'd be a GIVEN to be able to at least store your samples on the SSD. Maybe not stream (Hopefully eventually) but at least to store!
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danatkorg
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 08, 2011 6:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

EvilDragon wrote:
Na, I'm talking having only flash memory instead of SSD (well, they're basically very similar things).


Well, perhaps if SpIdErWeB manages to put a way faster SSD in Kronos and confirms it would make the booting much faster, that could change my mind. Then the question remains why Korg didn't put a faster SSD there in the first place.


If I may interject, a better question would be whether the SSD is in fact slow.
The answer: it's not, or it wouldn't have been usable for our purpose - and wouldn't have provided 100 quad-channel voices for the SGX-1.
Is it the fastest possibly available, at any cost?
Nope, it's not that either - for reasons noted by others above.
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danatkorg
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 08, 2011 6:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

NuSkoolTone wrote:
Really? There's no access to the SSD other than recording audio and the pre-load libraries? I find that hard to believe as that would be a pretty MAJOR omission IMO.

I figured it'd be a GIVEN to be able to at least store your samples on the SSD. Maybe not stream (Hopefully eventually) but at least to store!


Yes, you can store user samples on the SSD.

- Dan
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EvilDragon
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 08, 2011 6:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

danatkorg wrote:
EvilDragon wrote:
Na, I'm talking having only flash memory instead of SSD (well, they're basically very similar things).


Well, perhaps if SpIdErWeB manages to put a way faster SSD in Kronos and confirms it would make the booting much faster, that could change my mind. Then the question remains why Korg didn't put a faster SSD there in the first place.


If I may interject, a better question would be whether the SSD is in fact slow.
The answer: it's not, or it wouldn't have been usable for our purpose - and wouldn't have provided 100 quad-channel voices for the SGX-1.
Is it the fastest possibly available, at any cost?
Nope, it's not that either - for reasons noted by others above.


If it's fast enough for streaming quite a good deal of voices (my guess - somewhere around 120-150 MB/s mark, since it's a 2009 Toshiba SSD, so that's an older generation of SSDs), then I wonder why the hell is the boot up so slow, and what could be done to put it under a minute with fullest preload possible (@4 GB RAM).
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danatkorg
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 08, 2011 6:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

EvilDragon wrote:
danatkorg wrote:
EvilDragon wrote:
Na, I'm talking having only flash memory instead of SSD (well, they're basically very similar things).


Well, perhaps if SpIdErWeB manages to put a way faster SSD in Kronos and confirms it would make the booting much faster, that could change my mind. Then the question remains why Korg didn't put a faster SSD there in the first place.


If I may interject, a better question would be whether the SSD is in fact slow.
The answer: it's not, or it wouldn't have been usable for our purpose - and wouldn't have provided 100 quad-channel voices for the SGX-1.
Is it the fastest possibly available, at any cost?
Nope, it's not that either - for reasons noted by others above.


If it's fast enough for streaming quite a good deal of voices (my guess - somewhere around 120-150 MB/s mark, since it's a 2009 Toshiba SSD, so that's an older generation of SSDs), then I wonder why the hell is the boot up so slow, and what could be done to put it under a minute with fullest preload possible (@4 GB RAM).


Booting and loading takes time on any system. Loading a ton of samples in soft-samplers on my Mac Pro takes a while, too (wait until all samples are actually loaded - some popular software will start playing before they are, resulting in some notes not sounding correctly when first played).
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EvilDragon
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 08, 2011 7:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

That's where Kontakt's background loading feature is a bliss. You can continue working while the samples load. And if you have a good hard drive, they load FAST! The good thing about this is that Kontakt tracks your usage of the samples it loads, so those that are more often used get loaded with first priority.
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amosdef
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 08, 2011 7:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

EvilDragon wrote:
That's where Kontakt's background loading feature is a bliss. You can continue working while the samples load. And if you have a good hard drive, they load FAST! The good thing about this is that Kontakt tracks your usage of the samples it loads, so those that are more often used get loaded with first priority.


I would love to have something like this in the Kronos eventually. Something like loading the last selected program/combi/etc, then loading the rest in the background (if the OS even supports such a thing). While I plan on using a UPS with the Kronos when playing live, it would still be a useful feature for me.
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GregC
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 08, 2011 9:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

EvilDragon wrote:
danatkorg wrote:
EvilDragon wrote:
Na, I'm talking having only flash memory instead of SSD (well, they're basically very similar things).


Well, perhaps if SpIdErWeB manages to put a way faster SSD in Kronos and confirms it would make the booting much faster, that could change my mind. Then the question remains why Korg didn't put a faster SSD there in the first place.


If I may interject, a better question would be whether the SSD is in fact slow.
The answer: it's not, or it wouldn't have been usable for our purpose - and wouldn't have provided 100 quad-channel voices for the SGX-1.
Is it the fastest possibly available, at any cost?
Nope, it's not that either - for reasons noted by others above.


If it's fast enough for streaming quite a good deal of voices (my guess - somewhere around 120-150 MB/s mark, since it's a 2009 Toshiba SSD, so that's an older generation of SSDs), then I wonder why the hell is the boot up so slow, and what could be done to put it under a minute with fullest preload possible (@4 GB RAM).


Things to do while waiting for 1 minute 48 second bootup:

1) microwave a cheeseburger

2) read a Kurzweil promo

3) beat the same horse on the Internet
Smile
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burningbusch
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 08, 2011 9:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

EvilDragon wrote:
That's where Kontakt's background loading feature is a bliss. You can continue working while the samples load. And if you have a good hard drive, they load FAST! The good thing about this is that Kontakt tracks your usage of the samples it loads, so those that are more often used get loaded with first priority.


The samples aren't stable until they're fully loaded. If you play them while they're loading it will glitch. I only wait until everything is loaded before I do anything with it other than play around a bit.

Korg's system with SSD is a significantly better than the flash systems of Yamaha and Kurzweil, IMO. The Motif XF takes close to a minute to load with 2GB of Flash installed.

Busch.
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EvilDragon
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 08, 2011 10:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

As I said, Kontakt tracks the usage of samples. So the most often played samples get loaded first, and if you play them when loading, they won't glitch. This method never glitched for me.


My PC3K8 is ready to go in 20 seconds. I like that.
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