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Buying a Kronos with EYES OPEN
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CfNorENa
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Location: SF Bay Area

PostPosted: Sun Jan 16, 2011 2:15 am    Post subject: Buying a Kronos with EYES OPEN Reply with quote

As I've mentioned in a few other posts, I've decided to sell my M50-88, as well as a number of other synths/gear, and purchase a Kronos 88.

I do this without any expectation whatsoever of future development. I'm buying the Kronos for what it is, right now, at launch, right out of the box. Of course, I'd love to see some updates and upgrades down the road, but I am not going to count on those.

In addition -- and this is the big one -- I do this in the full knowledge that, in all likelihood, there will be "next gen" workstations, within 2-3 years (if not sooner), coming from Kurzweil, from Yamaha, possibly from Roland, and almost certainly from Korg itself. And when that happens, the specs on the Kronos will look "dated," and the value of the instrument will plummet. With digital technology, there is no other way.

For what it's worth, I'd recommend prospective buyers of the Kronos to adopt this attitude -- it's the necessary safeguard against future disappointment.

Now let's all go make some music!
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WorknMan
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 16, 2011 7:09 am    Post subject: Re: Buying a Kronos with EYES OPEN Reply with quote

CfNorENa wrote:
As I've mentioned in a few other posts, I've decided to sell my M50-88, as well as a number of other synths/gear, and purchase a Kronos 88.

I do this without any expectation whatsoever of future development. I'm buying the Kronos for what it is, right now, at launch, right out of the box.


I believe this is the smart way to go about it. IMHO, too many synth owners getting pissed off when manufacturers hint that more updates will come 'in the future', then they never do.

So it's probably safe to assume that what comes out of the box is all you're getting, unless the synth manufacturer is promising something VERY SPECIFIC, like Yamaha saying they would release 512MB of additional sounds shortly after the XF's release (which they did).
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MartinHines
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 16, 2011 12:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The other expectation problem relates to music hardware versus music software.

Some keyboard buyers expect they will see bi-monthly updates like they would with music software. If you look at updates historically from a company like Korg (or Roland or Yamaha) you will normally see a few updates over the span of a few years and that is it.

I definitely agree all buyers should buy any keyboard SOLELY based on what comes with the product at the time of sale.
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spinoria
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 16, 2011 3:54 pm    Post subject: That's why I love my Virus Reply with quote

I just love Virus and Kurzweil for what they are doing. Expansions and upgrades. Really curious about the new 4.5 O.S for the Virus. The leslie effect looks really good.

I haven't decided yet if I should buy the Kronos but for that price I think it should be upgradable in someway.

Of course I'm willing to pay for a new engine or a new sample library.
It's very much about software so releasing a some update is a good way to take care of customers and building long relations.

There are rumours about a new Kurzweil K-series next NAMM and maybe there will be some Yamaha S90XF soon. I think it's very hard to decide what to buy these days.
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Link
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 16, 2011 4:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

To release next gen compared to Kronos, Yamaha needs to step couple of gens at once.
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Jan1
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Joined: 16 Mar 2005
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 16, 2011 4:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

It looks like little David outsmarted Goliath again, two of them.

KORG has been working on this proprietary platform for years, listening to the input of their customers, and it's going to take quite some time for either Yamaha or Roland to be able to catch up on KORG.
In the meantime KORG is able to build further on this platform instead of having to reinvent the wheel over and over again, and prepare for the son of KRONOS.
Yamaha and Roland are going to have to at least double their efforts to catch up, and I don't foresee any similar workstation from either of them for at least two years.

It looks like KRONOS is going to be a big sales hit for KORG, and deservedly so. KORG has the courage to venture into areas where other companies are reluctant to go.
From what I have seen and heard thusfar the KRONOS sounds absolutely great.
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Ozz
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 16, 2011 7:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi

Yep, the smart thing is to buy something only thinking on the product on the box and what you can do with it
But, if KORG decide to update the synth with new capabilities or expations it would be surely welcome by the users

On the other hand is amazing that a company like KORG decided to work taking care of their costumers desires and ideas. If we remember past threads on the forum surelly will find the most important features from the KRONOS as request from the users for the "next" KORG workstation.

Regards
Alvaro.
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videorov
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 05, 2011 5:17 am    Post subject: Yes you buy it now for what it is and later just upgrade Reply with quote

Its great that there is a future in the R&D keyboard world and hope they
keep them coming. Very Happy
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jemkeys25
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 05, 2011 7:02 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I don't view it as "whats coming in the future" but what we have now, so is the kronos an upgrade from the
m3 i'm using now, i think so, so I have no problem making the purchase of a kronos.
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synthguy
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 05, 2011 7:34 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm still baffled as to why people will whine about an instrument which can conceivably replace just about everything but a real piano, organ or analog synth. Even has some multitrack DAW functions built in, complete with a whopping rack of effects!

"Yeah, but I want mooorrrrrrrrrrrrrre."

Jeepers... a whole keyboard-slash-recording studio in a box isn't good enough for you?? Priced a Lionstracs lately? Confused

Okay, the 2GB ram limit is kind of weaksauce, but for an instrument so magnificent, that's a pretty minor point to grouch about. Especially in light of the fact that not all that much more money in ebay will nab you an instrument which can complement the Kronos however you want.

I just have to stay focused. I made the mistake of being lured to some YouTube vids of some delicious analog synths, and made a far more mortal mistake of peeking at the SE CODE synth... made me weak in the knees. I just need to keep reminding myself that I'm fine with VAs, and I have a couple analogs already, and The K will have some of THE best VAs ever.

Really. It does. Still... that darn CODE is... must... resist... costs in the Lionstracs range and then some... resistance is futile... GAH!

Why do I have to be addicted to the very best, and can only afford one of them?? Razz
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ScoobyDoo555
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 05, 2011 8:56 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I've always taken the OP's approach to buying hardware.

With the Kronos, to put it simply, it will be put to work as soon as it's out of the box (and I've got my head around it!).
It *will* pay for itself relatively quickly, and as soon as it's "debt" to me has been paid, I will have no worries about looking at the "next gen" of keyboards.

The only saving grace for Kronos is that is MAY have a distinctive sound that can't be emulated by future machines - only time will tell.

Either way, not bothered (just as long as it pays for itself!)

DAn Smile
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ozy
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 05, 2011 11:38 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

synthguy wrote:
Why do I have to be addicted to the very best, and can only afford one of them??


ask your loved one: she knows why you've got to be monogamous if you want the very best Wink
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Mystic38
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 05, 2011 1:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well, certainly the view of the OP is the correct one to have to avoid disappointment, but there are also flaws in having such a black/white perspective as a viewpoint.

1. To pre-order a Kronos, based on half a dozen controlled videos on the web, in advance of documentation, took a massive leap of faith in the K meeting reasonable customer expectations of operational effectiveness, user interface, computer integration, sound quality, ease of use etc etc.. that faith needs to be justified and vindicated.

2. no matter how complete the documentation, it is always incomplete and error prone.. so again, a pre-order or purchase sight unseen is also a leap of faith in the manufacturer delivering your specific customer needs.... note , if you think that documentation is ever complete then of course you will have no need of this forum once you get your Kronos..Smile

3. Everyone has subtlely different needs from a "this is the one and only stage/studio/workstation that you will ever need" that is being sold... it is not reasonable to expect 100% of needs to be fulfilled..but without sitting down for 2 weeks with a machine, it is not possible to determine whether the K will do it all for you individually... some will be happy, some will begrudgingly ok, and some will be furious..

So, whereas i agree that you should not expect (say) the sequencing of the M3, or new engines, there will be a decently sized list within 6 months of things that are inaccurate, ommited (eg VST editor) or just plain crazy about how the K operates.. and it is NOT unreasonable for a customer to expect blatant flaws, omissions and errors to be fixed.

so no, i do not accept Kronos "as is, right now, out of the box" and i dont believe as a customer community that we should...
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synthguy
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 05, 2011 9:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mystic, speaking generically of music products, you're right. But I think you're forcing the issue a bit.

Kronos is actually a fairly mature product based on a six or seven year old OASYS engine, running in essentially the same OS. Yes, the hardware is different, but the techs making the thing run know what the engines are supposed to do, and how they're supposed to work together. Everything is extremely powerful. Being able to change a combi with a few synth engines running and up to 14 O Verbs before the thing starts to have seamless transition issues is frankly astounding.

Will bugs slip through the cracks? Most likely a few, the thing is extremely complex. I've stumbled into things no one has caught in other instruments when some magic combination causes the software to misbehave. The much simpler and very solid M3 had a few updates after all.

Some people won't be aware that the ram, at least for now, can't be upgraded. At least by the user. As far as I know, no one has asked a sales place like Sweetwater to open theirs up and see if 4 or 8 GB can be installed and recognized. Some will expect to see a full featured sequencer like their favorite DAW provides. Some will expect to see a high end sound editor. Some may not take well to having a piano action, or the RH3 piano action, like McHale. Some people complain unless they can have the Moon for a dollar. Wink

Most of us here have already complained about the known features and few shortcomings. Some will hold onto their grudge with a death grip on the boards, some while still playing away like they found gold for pennies on the dollar while not admitting it.

There is something to be said for throwing demands at a company to improve their product, after all it does keep buyer interest engaged longer. However, there's also something to be said about sneering at a fine mansion because you don't like the rug in the entranceway, or that there is no rug. Wink

As more people get theirs and come here to yack about it, we'll get a fuller understanding of how much it blows us away, or doesn't quite, or even irritates some of us. But we're biased for the most part. We like the KORG sound, most of us have been lusting after an OASYS since before it was released *raises hand*, and can now have one for a decent price, with more. So most of us won't share your skepticism.

ozy wrote:
synthguy wrote:
Why do I have to be addicted to the very best, and can only afford one of them??

ask your loved one: she knows why you've got to be monogamous if you want the very best Wink

Darn it ozy, why do you have to be right all the time?? Or... sometimes... most of the time... hardly ever... now I confused myself. Confused

But... wait a minute now. Don't you have a small "harem" yourself??

And to be honest, my problem for the most part is G.A.S. I really could stand to have a major analog polyphonic to add to the pile. I don't need it, especially with a Kronos in the house. But as I'm fond of saying, when has being a music guy been about a four letter word like "need"? Wink
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Last edited by synthguy on Sun Jun 05, 2011 9:47 pm; edited 1 time in total
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ozy
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 05, 2011 9:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

synthguy wrote:
As far as I know, no one has asked a sales place like Sweetwater to open theirs up and see if 4 or 8 GB can be installed and recognized.


this is odd! Shocked

WHO wouldn't want a warranty-less new keyboard?!? Rolling Eyes
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