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Can we talk the EFX sction of the Kronos?
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bobbybland
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 17, 2011 11:12 pm    Post subject: Can we talk the EFX sction of the Kronos? Reply with quote

When it comes to FX,I admittedly have a problem with most hardware workstations, I don't like rebuilding a sound,but rather get straight to tracking, but hoping this changes with the Kronos..

My problem normally with most hw workstations,is on a program/patch level everything sounds great,but once we move to the sequencer, there's always some odd forced work around to get the same sounding patch.

My question is how does the Kronos handle progams/patches in the sequencer? Does it retain the same sound as in Prog mode?

What limitations will there be on the patches sound compared to the same patch on the sequencer level?

hope I'm making myself clear..This is probably the single largest reason I've recently moved to an all softsynth setup for the most part..

Thanks for any insight you may have..
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robinkle
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 17, 2011 11:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I would like to know this as well. Smile. If Kronos and Oasys are alike in this area, maby the Oasys users can give us a hint. Smile
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georgeinar
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 18, 2011 12:21 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

All my work is done thru the sequencer as well, using the m3 at the moment. I do find that there is little tutorial and focus on the sequencing, everyone seems to want tons of combis which to me are pre-written grooves for the most part. I hardly ever use combis unless I program them myself. Anyway, getting the 16 tracks to really pop w 5 insert effects is no easy feat, so the kronos will be a marked improvement there. Also, I find the m3 limited in the distortion effects, like fuzz and buzz effects, hopefully there's more choices on that end.
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BasariStudios
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 18, 2011 12:37 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Every single workstation since i remember worked the same way and they
still do...most people dont understand the concept of whats behind a patch
and they think its easy to just GET IT INTO SEQUENCER...
Each patch has like 3-4-5 FX Processors but in Sequencer its ONLY those
3-4-5 FX Processors...now a 16 Track Sequencer needs 16x3-4-5 FX Processors
for that to work the way we want....and no, it wont happen.
And a synth DOES NOT HAVE to retain the Sound from Program into Seq or
Combi Mode...treated as a live band with a mixer, you reroute you repatch
and do all kinds of stuff...
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fijaicairo



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PostPosted: Tue Jan 18, 2011 2:47 am    Post subject: You'll need a motif then Reply with quote

What I have read so far seems to indicate that you'll have to rebuild patches just like you do on the triton/m3/oasys.
On the motif ES/XS/XF, the first 8 patches in your sequencer/ multi retain their insert effects so they sound like they do in program mode. That's possible because motif programs only use a max of 2 insert effects.
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bobbybland
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 18, 2011 4:49 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

BasariStudios wrote:
Every single workstation since i remember worked the same way and they
still do...most people dont understand the concept of whats behind a patch
and they think its easy to just GET IT INTO SEQUENCER...
Each patch has like 3-4-5 FX Processors but in Sequencer its ONLY those
3-4-5 FX Processors...now a 16 Track Sequencer needs 16x3-4-5 FX Processors
for that to work the way we want....and no, it wont happen.
And a synth DOES NOT HAVE to retain the Sound from Program into Seq or
Combi Mode...treated as a live band with a mixer, you reroute you repatch
and do all kinds of stuff...


I never said I don't understand what concept is behind a patch,I said I don't want to rebuild them,but yet get right to tracking Cool Apparently this is why so many folks like softsynths.My question is more about what other process,will make it easier?
The XS I know very well as I still have one here,but again doesn't get much use over my samplers with much better options when it comes to efx.
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Mike Conway
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 18, 2011 5:43 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Assuming Kronos' Combis and Sequencing is like the OASYS you do have to copy FX. There is a copy function called "All Used" which can do this, but if you do it for all 16 programs, you will run out of effects. My advice is to use this for your best 3 or 4 sounds, then add the rest.

What the sequencer does right is allows you to copy any Program or Combi, with FX intact. You press ENTER and the REC/WRITE button and a popup screen appears: "Setup to Record?" If you press YES it goes in just as you hear it. Adding additional sounds will require FX copying.

Another option is to record any sound you want to Audio Tracks. Using the above method, you press RECORD and ENTER, but go to Audio.

Again, if this is like OASYS, you may have to copy the audio tracks to a second song (and so on), if you do a lot of passes. I posted a video of how I record multiple Combis/Programs to HDR here:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pxERQ5hME3A
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bobbybland
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 18, 2011 6:35 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks Mike for the info
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Ozz
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 18, 2011 6:56 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi

You always can copy the programs/combis with their fxs on a workstation

The "problem" is if you use more than one combi or effects.. the fx capability of the workstation is the same.. so, if the sum of fxs from the programs its biiger than the fxs quantity of the workstation, you have the "problem"

on seq you've to do a great job to make a good mix, a lot of programs use similar fxs, you can work with that, routing more than 1 program to the same fx

but if you want the programs intact and you are running short on effects, you can work with a PC DAW... make the sequence working on your PC and then record ir track by track on program mode

Regards.
Alvaro.
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bobbybland
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 18, 2011 7:58 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ozz,
Your right,and thanks for the reply..

Will there be possible multiple streams of audio out ,or just stereo outs into the daw?

I'm just trying to perceive the best workflow for daw work,n efx before hand,as I know I'll wanna run into this as soon as I get it hooked up.

I'm thinking it's going to work like the TI more so then Yamaha's mlan w/multiple streams correct?

Either way, the DAW I use is pretty fast to track midi/audio..

thanks for the response's..
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Ajbbklyn
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 18, 2011 10:12 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

There are four audio outs in addition to stereo outs.
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ozy
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 18, 2011 12:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

BasariStudios wrote:
Every single workstation since i remember worked the same way and they


except Kurz,

where EFX is embedded in the program, and when the seq points to a program it gest the full efx.

There is of course a "master" exf section which is better fine-tuned in seq mode, since it affects the song dynamics.

This is OOOLD news.

So, there's nothing "nucular" in designing a seq which doesn't waste my time in rebulding effects (and limits me if faithful replication on sounds in seq mode).

@OZZ:

either that's your real name (in that case, bokher tov, haver!),

or you are an immigrant from Australia,

or: please change that friggin' nickname, this town is too small for two Ozzies! Wink

I can't change mine, it's my real name...
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Ozz
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 18, 2011 5:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

@ozy

Hi

my real name is Alvaro, but Ozz has been my nickname since ages becoz is a diminutive of my last name, like the half of it. (not Ozymandias xD)

Regards
Alvaro.
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ozy
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 18, 2011 6:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ozz wrote:
but Ozz is a diminutive of my last name, like the half of it.


Nice to meet you BTW.

Oscar? Oswald? Octavius? Ozer? Oxide? Osama? Osceola? Osmond? Oscosh? Ovidius?

My given name is indeed Oz.

But dad called me Ozy because sometimes if there's strong wind you can't even hear "oz"... Crying or Very sad

All my life I have wanted a long name like Franz-Ferdinand, or Herve-Cyrille...

Heck, my initials are longer than my full name!
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RichF
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 18, 2011 10:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi all,

The effects structure lets you use 16 simultaneous effects- 12 inserts, 2 masters, and 2 total effects. Each individual Program does have access to all 16 of these slots, but it is very rare that you'll find them all used just for a single sound.

While you're sequencing, there is a convenient way to append the list of used effects, so you don't have to recreate them every time. When you use the "Copy From Program" command, check "IFX- All used," and it will add the program's used effects, starting with the first empty slot.

-Rich
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