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burningbusch
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Joined: 30 Jan 2005
Posts: 1203
Location: Seattle
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 Posted: Fri Jan 21, 2011 11:00 pm Post subject: |
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This is included one the SSD. Don't know the size of strings or percussion libraries.
EXs-3 Brass & Woodwinds Collection
This large Expansion sample library (over 700 MB!) features a wide variety of natural-sounding brass and woodwind instruments, perfect for many styles of popular music. Many instruments have been freshly sampled, including the trumpet, trombone, tuba, French horn, flute, sax, and clarinet. The instrument selection provides plenty of variety beyond the basics, with both piccolo and alto flute, piccolo trumpet and cornet, bass clarinet, and so on. Each sound has been sampled from instruments made by top-ranking manufacturers, keeping in mind the sounds and playing techniques of famous musicians.
For each instrument long samples were taken at a great number of points, giving you extremely nuanced and realistic sounds. Individually played notes can be richly expressive, thanks to the included samples of idiomatic dynamics, trills, falls, growls, and staccato articulations. Sophisticated programming lets you use controllers to vary these articulations, for easy performance of natural-sounding wind instrument phrases that would be difficult to produce by simply playing back the basic sample data.
Demo of ONE combi from the library
http://www.karma-lab.com/vp/klvp.html?playID=28
Busch. |
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Rocness
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| Posted: Sat Jan 22, 2011 12:19 am Post subject: |
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| burningbusch wrote: | I used to own a CP-1 and currently own the Motif XF8. Yamaha is sampled-based. Yes the EPs/APs in the CP series have some modeling but what you're hearing are the samples (yes, the FM pianos on the $5000 CP-1 do use FM but only for four EP tones and are not programmable to any degree).
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The sound on you CP 1- Rhodes video , is that cp-1 playing or sample of CP-1 ?
What happen to your CP-1 ?
Are you saying Kronos Rhodes will sound better than CP-1 ?
Thanks |
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aquablue
Joined: 10 Jul 2007
Posts: 21
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| Posted: Sat Jan 22, 2011 6:23 pm Post subject: |
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How easy is it to create your own arp patterns on the karma software? Do you just play the pattern on the keyboard and the software recognizes it, or do you have to mouse it in?
Once your have your new pattern, can you then add variations in real time to your own patterns with Karma? How is this done? |
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Scott
Platinum Member
Joined: 16 Oct 2009
Posts: 1015
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| Posted: Sat Jan 22, 2011 10:03 pm Post subject: Re: Kronos vs CP1/5 and Motif XF? |
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| aquablue wrote: | | CP1/CP5: better keyboard, but how do its pianos/epianos stack up to kronos |
On paper, piano should be much better (4+ gb per, no loops, no stretching), but you'll have to hear it and play it to see if you like it better. As for EPs, the Kronos has a whole separated dedicated EP engine which, as I understand it, combines sampling and modeling technologies, but again, the proof will be in the playing.
| aquablue wrote: | | flash ram which allows me to load anything I want (vs no flash for Kronos) |
The SSD implementation is an extension of the flash RAM concept. As shipped, 12 gB of sounds stored on SSD are instantaneously available, and 273 mB of user samples can also be made instantly available, so that's functionally equivalent to having 273 mB of Motif XF flash RAM. However, you can pare out Korg sounds you don't use to increase the amount of that user sample space. You can also load in different sets of sound from the (30 gB) SSD, and that is supposed to be quite fast.
| aquablue wrote: | | How much of that 12GB of samples is dedicated to non-piano/drums like strings, orchestral, world, synth samples, etc? |
I think the two pianos take up about 8.5 gb, so that leaves 3.5 gB for other sampled sounds. That doesn't count all the sounds from the other engines in the Kronos (the CX3 organ, the FM synth sounds, the VA sounds, etc.) which are not sample based and are presumably not taking any space on the SSD. |
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Oboemd
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Joined: 18 Aug 2008
Posts: 69
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| Posted: Sat Jan 22, 2011 10:32 pm Post subject: |
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Motif xf 741 mb sound rom, 2gb flash can be purchased for user/ 3rd party sounds vs kronos 12 gb of sounds already available and 18 gb available for user/3rd party sounds.
Yamaha needs flash because samples load dreadfully slow otherwise. Loading samples from the Korg ssd (18 gb available) by comparison should be a snap. Of cousrse the 12gb stream so will not have to be loaded.
12 gb vs a possible 2.5 gb. Game, set, match. |
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burningbusch
Approved Merchant
Joined: 30 Jan 2005
Posts: 1203
Location: Seattle
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| Posted: Sat Jan 22, 2011 11:13 pm Post subject: |
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| Rocness wrote: | | burningbusch wrote: | I used to own a CP-1 and currently own the Motif XF8. Yamaha is sampled-based. Yes the EPs/APs in the CP series have some modeling but what you're hearing are the samples (yes, the FM pianos on the $5000 CP-1 do use FM but only for four EP tones and are not programmable to any degree).
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The sound on you CP 1- Rhodes video , is that cp-1 playing or sample of CP-1 ?
What happen to your CP-1 ?
Are you saying Kronos Rhodes will sound better than CP-1 ?
Thanks |
In the sound examples, that's coming directly from the CP-1. I bought the CP-1 rather impulsively as I was given a good deal on a NAMM model. I really wanted the CP-5 but that wasn't going to be available for several months. I should have waited. I swapped out the CP-1 for the Motif XF8 which makes more sense for my needs (prior to the Kronos).
Here's my take on the comparison between the Yamaha CPs and the Kronos. I do like the action on the Yamaha quite a bit. There is a real connection between the keyboard and the main ac. piano sound. You feel like you have the full range of expression at your finger tips. On the CPs, though they are using some hybrid technologies, samples are still the basis for the sound and it's evident when you give it a close listen. Velocity jumps are not an issue but you can clearly hear, in the bass in particular, 3-4 note chromatic groups where they used the same sample and spread it over 3 to 4 notes. As you play chromatically, it's quite apparent.
I truly expect the Kronos pianos to noticeable step up from the Yamaha. They just did everything right and I've yet to hear a bad example of the Kronos even when the recording was poor.
As far as the EPs go, I spent a ton of time tweaking the CP Rhodes and got some pretty good sounds out of it. The sounds are sample based again and there's not as much sonic variation as you might think. Rhds71 and Rhds73 sound VERY similar and Rhds75 and Rhds78, though the are EQed quite differently, seem to share the same set of samples. My favorite Rhodes that I came up with had the Rhds75 on the right half of the keyboard and Rhds73 on the left, but that was less than ideal. The FXs are very good and seem to be accurately modeled.
Again, based on the demos it really sounds like the Kronos Rhodes are going to be very good and my gut tells me it's going to top the CPs, but time will tell. On the Kronos there are also sample-based Rhodes available and as it's a sampler I can still bring in my own, so when it's all said and done, I'm quite positive I'll be able to get a better Rhodes out of the Kronos.
The Wurlys on the CPs are a disappointment as they contain a pretty serious flaw. You can't play them pianissimo. No matter how light you touch the level and tone is too hot. This has been reported to Yamaha but I don't get the feeling it's going to be fixed (it's been close to a year already). This just isn't acceptable on a $5000 piano.
Remember if one uses a DP like the CP-1/5/50 on the bottom to trigger the Kronos you're giving up aftertouch.
I would not recommend the CP-1 when the CP-5 really does everything the CP-1 can plus a lot more for half the price, and with the same action.
Look forward to the Kronos. I'm getting the 73 key version.
Busch. |
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Rocness
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| Posted: Sat Jan 22, 2011 11:36 pm Post subject: |
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[quote="burningbusch"][quote="Rocness"] | burningbusch wrote: |
I truly expect the Kronos pianos to noticeable step up from the Yamaha. They just did everything right and I've yet to hear a bad example of the Kronos even when the recording was poor.
Busch. |
If the Kronos EP-1 sounds better than Yamaha $5000 CP-1 that would be very impressive. I guess we will have to wait and see , for that I'm am excited about Kronos. I'm trying to find the best Rhodes . Thanks |
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sewa
Platinum Member
Joined: 06 Feb 2004
Posts: 1293
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| Posted: Sat Jan 29, 2011 7:13 am Post subject: |
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| aquablue wrote: | Do you just play the pattern on the keyboard and the software recognizes it, or do you have to mouse it in?
Once your have your new pattern, can you then add variations in real time to your own patterns with Karma? How is this done? |
I asked the same question over at karma-lab. No reply yet but from my experience with karma Triton, I do not think that what you're saying is possible. Karma is essentially not pattern based. That means it creates musical phrases by taking the note you play, not the pattern you record.
This is one of the reasons I placed an order for motif XF8. I've had an ES7 for a while and I just do not want to give the pattern sequencer. Linear sequencing can be done on any DAW but the ability to record loops into 16 sections which you can easily shuffle with onboard buttons is really something different. I prefer that way of working, it leaves me in control of the musical arrangement. By contrast, Karma will be somewhat unpredictable. You'll never be sure where it takes you which can also be cool - as an add on. Karma xf was another reason I opted for the motif.
Having said that, the Kronos does sound impressive, especially in the AN department. I guess things haven't changed that much from the motif v. triton era: you'd like to have both 
cheers
sewa
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aquablue
Joined: 10 Jul 2007
Posts: 21
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| Posted: Sun Jan 30, 2011 2:18 am Post subject: |
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| You mean to say there is no pattern sequencer on the Kronos, just a linear sequencer? Really??? |
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burningbusch
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Joined: 30 Jan 2005
Posts: 1203
Location: Seattle
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StephenKay
KARMA Developer
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Joined: 18 Jun 2002
Posts: 2979
Location: Scottsdale, AZ
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| Posted: Sun Jan 30, 2011 7:00 am Post subject: |
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| aquablue wrote: | | How easy is it to create your own arp patterns on the karma software? Do you just play the pattern on the keyboard and the software recognizes it, or do you have to mouse it in? |
At this time, you can't just "play a phrase on the keyboard and have it turned into a GE," not quite that simply. However, let me explain a bit:
There are 4 different "GE Types" in KARMA; several of them have sub-types. Without going into great detail about all of them, one of the types is "Generated Drum". This has two sub-types "Drum" and "Melodic". In this GE Type, 3 different pattern grids can hold MIDI notes, and they can play at the same time, or be used independently. With the "Drum" sub-type, the notes are fixed and the pattern doesn't transpose when you move your hand around the keyboard and change chords - which is what you want for playing a drum kit. On the other sub-type, Melodic, when you change chord and keys, the patterns follow your hand and transpose to fit the chords you play. So you can use them to construct specific phrases that conform to new chords.
The reason I mention this type (the other types also are used for melodic GEs, and they have different programming paradigms and produce generated note data in very different ways) is because, since it has note-based grids, it is the closest thing to a "sequenced phrase" that exists in KARMA. As such, with the software, it is possible to import a simple .MID phrase that you created yourself in some sequencing software, and have it be turned into a GE. You can also just "mouse" the notes in.
This is the feature that it would be possible for Korg to add to the existing KARMA 2.2 implementation (making it KARMA 2.3?) that would allow users to be able to create, on-board, a type of User GE. You can use it for both drum patterns, and melodic phrases. Perhaps in a future update it will make it in. Contrary to what some believe, I'm not interested in forcing people to buy my software to create a simple pattern of notes. I would like people to buy my software to get into fully programming all of the hidden stuff in KARMA that you don't even know is there, but I do personally believe that the keyboard should have some way to create at least a simple "user arp". Note that this would likely not satisfy everyone's needs, you might still need to get the software (depending on your requirements), but at least it would provide a means to create your own GE inside the keyboard (and silence those that say it is a missing feature.) My two cents.
| Quote: | | Once your have your new pattern, can you then add variations in real time to your own patterns with Karma? How is this done? |
Yes, that's the cool part. When you import your .MID phrase and have it turned into a GE of this type, all 16 RT Controls are automatically assigned to various GE Real-Time Parameters, and you can immediately start moving the sliders and switches and creating different variations from it.
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Stephen Kay - KARMA Developer • Karma-Lab - karma-lab.com
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T7
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Joined: 13 Jul 2008
Posts: 91
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| Posted: Sun Jan 30, 2011 8:19 am Post subject: |
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| StephenKay wrote: | | This is the feature that it would be possible for Korg to add to the existing KARMA 2.2 implementation (making it KARMA 2.3?) that would allow users to be able to create, on-board, a type of User GE. You can use it for both drum patterns, and melodic phrases. Perhaps in a future update it will make it in. Contrary to what some believe, I'm not interested in forcing people to buy my software to create a simple pattern of notes. I would like people to buy my software to get into fully programming all of the hidden stuff in KARMA that you don't even know is there, but I do personally believe that the keyboard should have some way to create at least a simple "user arp". Note that this would likely not satisfy everyone's needs, you might still need to get the software (depending on your requirements), but at least it would provide a means to create your own GE inside the keyboard (and silence those that say it is a missing feature.) |
Thanks for addressing this. I hope Korg are open to updating KARMA.
While I can see the creative potential of KARMA technology, I find it puzzling that Korg have chosen to impose limits in regards to more traditional pattern creation in the Oasys and now the Kronos. Heck, my Novation Supernova II can create custom arp patterns from the keyboard like nobody's business and it was designed over ten years ago.
Wake up, Korg, user arps are a staple in many genres of electronic music. |
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sewa
Platinum Member
Joined: 06 Feb 2004
Posts: 1293
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sewa
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Joined: 06 Feb 2004
Posts: 1293
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| Posted: Sun Jan 30, 2011 9:36 am Post subject: |
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| T7 wrote: | | StephenKay wrote: | | This is the feature that it would be possible for Korg to add to the existing KARMA 2.2 implementation (making it KARMA 2.3?) that would allow users to be able to create, on-board, a type of User GE. You can use it for both drum patterns, and melodic phrases. Perhaps in a future update it will make it in. Contrary to what some believe, I'm not interested in forcing people to buy my software to create a simple pattern of notes. I would like people to buy my software to get into fully programming all of the hidden stuff in KARMA that you don't even know is there, but I do personally believe that the keyboard should have some way to create at least a simple "user arp". Note that this would likely not satisfy everyone's needs, you might still need to get the software (depending on your requirements), but at least it would provide a means to create your own GE inside the keyboard (and silence those that say it is a missing feature.) |
Thanks for addressing this. I hope Korg are open to updating KARMA.
While I can see the creative potential of KARMA technology, I find it puzzling that Korg have chosen to impose limits in regards to more traditional pattern creation in the Oasys and now the Kronos. Heck, my Novation Supernova II can create custom arp patterns from the keyboard like nobody's business and it was designed over ten years ago.
Wake up, Korg, user arps are a staple in many genres of electronic music. |
Yes please, that would be very, very useful. I'm really glad that motif users will not be allowed to tap into k-lab's innovative ideas.
sewa
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StephenKay
KARMA Developer
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Joined: 18 Jun 2002
Posts: 2979
Location: Scottsdale, AZ
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