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sewa
Platinum Member
Joined: 06 Feb 2004
Posts: 1293
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T7
Junior Member
Joined: 13 Jul 2008
Posts: 91
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 Posted: Sun Jan 30, 2011 8:52 pm Post subject: |
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| StephenKay wrote: | | aquablue wrote: | | How easy is it to create your own arp patterns on the karma software? Do you just play the pattern on the keyboard and the software recognizes it, or do you have to mouse it in? |
At this time, you can't just "play a phrase on the keyboard and have it turned into a GE," |
Here's an example of Novation Supernova user arp creation(I didn't make the video): http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K6e5zPppjSs
As you can see, it's not rocket science(unlike KARMA  ). It's no slouch though. Each of the 8 Supernova programs can run a separate arp in a performance. Here's a good description from EM:
"It has enough memory locations for 640 patterns — 128 monophonic presets, 128 polyphonic presets, and 384 user slots (which ship empty). Patterns can be up to 64 steps long. Each step can be a note, rest, tie, or glide between steps, and you can set the Velocity and gate time for every step.
The arpeggiator has dedicated buttons for octaves (from 1 to 4), direction (up, down, up/down 1, and up/down 2), latching, key sync, and zone transposition, as well as knobs for Speed and Gate Time — just about everything you'd need in live applications. That's just the beginning, though: the submenus have plenty of options for tweaking parameters such as latch type, quantization, and sync, along with a Fill-in mode that you can set to do clever musical things when you play a different number of notes than the pattern is expecting."
I only hope KARMA 2.3 and/or Korg can offer something similar. Otherwise, the lack of a real arp could be the game changer which prevents me from buying a Kronos. |
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sewa
Platinum Member
Joined: 06 Feb 2004
Posts: 1293
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| Posted: Sun Jan 30, 2011 10:24 pm Post subject: |
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@T7
I watched the video. That's how I like to work: record your own patterns, so that you understand how your arrangement works, and then modify them as the song goes.
Still, I wouldn't underestimate the power of Karma. Especially as far as drum grooves are concerned, that thing is very capable. Karma Triton was not very intuitive but things are in permanent development. Stephen's customer service (I once bought a Karma Triton) is second to none, which makes even a sceptic like me  a potential customer 
cheers
sewa
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StephenKay
KARMA Developer
Approved Merchant
Joined: 18 Jun 2002
Posts: 2979
Location: Scottsdale, AZ
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| Posted: Sun Jan 30, 2011 10:45 pm Post subject: |
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| T7 wrote: | | I only hope KARMA 2.3 and/or Korg can offer something similar. Otherwise, the lack of a real arp could be the game changer which prevents me from buying a Kronos. |
There are plenty of "real" arps in the KARMA GE provided with the keyboard.
The first 20 or 30 GEs are "Arp Models" that have been set up to do all sorts of common "typical" arp patterns, and there are many parameters that can be changed to provide thousands of variations. However, there is not a fully programmable user arp, not without using the optional KARMA Kronos software to edit it and send it to the keyboard. I just wanted to make that distinction.
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Stephen Kay - KARMA Developer • Karma-Lab - karma-lab.com
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T7
Junior Member
Joined: 13 Jul 2008
Posts: 91
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| Posted: Sun Jan 30, 2011 10:59 pm Post subject: |
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| StephenKay wrote: | | T7 wrote: | | I only hope KARMA 2.3 and/or Korg can offer something similar. Otherwise, the lack of a real arp could be the game changer which prevents me from buying a Kronos. |
There are plenty of "real" arps in the KARMA GE provided with the keyboard.
The first 20 or 30 GEs are "Arp Models" that have been set up to do all sorts of common "typical" arp patterns, and there are many parameters that can be changed to provide thousands of variations. However, there is not a fully programmable user arp, not without using the optional KARMA Kronos software to edit it and send it to the keyboard. I just wanted to make that distinction. |
Thanks, Stephen. The preset typical arp patterns such as Up, Down, etc. are welcome. Arp "styles"(Latin, R&B, House, etc) if you have included any, are just cheesy. A "real" arp on a flagship workstation needs comprehensive user patterns without involving a computer. |
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nowtime
Full Member
Joined: 27 Aug 2009
Posts: 216
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| Posted: Sun Jan 30, 2011 11:56 pm Post subject: |
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I agree, no arpeggiator and limited sampling RAM are major oversights on what would otherwise be a perfect looking workstation.  |
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vEddY
Platinum Member
Joined: 20 Jul 2002
Posts: 1263
Location: Zagreb
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| Posted: Mon Jan 31, 2011 12:09 am Post subject: |
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| StephenKay wrote: |
The first 20 or 30 GEs are "Arp Models" that have been set up to do all sorts of common "typical" arp patterns, and there are many parameters that can be changed to provide thousands of variations. However, there is not a fully programmable user arp, not without using the optional KARMA Kronos software to edit it and send it to the keyboard. I just wanted to make that distinction. |
I know that quite a few people might disagree with what I'm gonna say but.. what the heck, I'm gonna write it anyway.
Just today, I did some 12 hours of recording, doing production and stuff like that. At one time, I had M3-M, OASYS, Trinity and Triton rack turned on and I was playing around with sounds trying to find a perfect one for a song that I'm arranging/producing for a friend. Just started playing around, triggering stuff, and played around a bit with Triton's arpeggiator. Then I turned on Z1 and played with his arpeggiated sounds, as well.
To say that - in terms of arpeggiation - from Z1 to Triton to OASYS is a quantum leap would be an understatement. After playing with some OASYS sounds, I went to Triton rack and erased all of the combis and turned off all arpeggiation in my library of sounds. Karma is just that much better. Like comparing some car from 1900's to Ferrari 458.
That being said, I'm pretty sure that a pattern sequencer or some way to "convert" simple sequences to GE's onboard would be extremely useful for a lot of peole. Oh well, sequencer...
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Dave Ferris
Joined: 09 Jul 2010
Posts: 45
Location: Glendale, Ca.
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| Posted: Mon Jan 31, 2011 9:25 am Post subject: |
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Regarding the earlier post about the CP5/1 and Kronos comparison.
I've had the CP-5 for about 6 months now, used it extensively live and a bit in the studio. Has Busch mentioned there is a real "piano-player connection" going on there, unlike any other DP or synth/workstation I've played.
I had not been able to hear the CP-1 (since I purchased my CP5 last summer) till this recent Namm. Now that I know the CP5, the tonal character of its soundset and UI pretty well, it was interesting to make a comparison between the two.
1.-the default CF Grand sample in both are identical
2.- the S6 Grand sample in the Cp-1 is superior to that in the CP-5...less harsh and boxy sounding.
3. The Rhodes in the CP-1 I feel are a cut above the CP-5. A fuller, more round and overall sweeter timbre to them. As Busch mentioned, the Wurlitzer is the same, which is a drag.
If the Rhodes and Wurlis in the Kronos are anything near the new and improved "soundpack 2" sounds from the SV-1 (which I assume they will surpass them) , there will be no comparison at all between the CP5 and the Kronos in that area. Maybe with the CP-1 a little closer but the edge would still be to the Korg imo.
As mainly a pianist, I'm very excited about the new piano from the Kronos. The only negative for someone like me would be the older RH3 action Korg is still using. If the piano is THAT good, it might not be as noticeable as it is on something like the SV-1. Imo the "NW" action on the CP1/5 is pretty hard to beat right now for a serious pianist.
In any case, I'll be the first one in line to play the Kronos 73 when it hits the GC or W. LA Music here in LA. 
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mkpcola
Joined: 21 Feb 2011
Posts: 20
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| Posted: Mon Feb 21, 2011 4:22 am Post subject: |
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I am getting Kronos...
I doubt that CP1/CP5 keys are better for synth workstation since they are designed primarily for pianos(acoustic/electric). I tried out Korg RH3 action on several boards and they are seem to be right for me. Not too heavy nor mushy nor light. I already have CP300.
Now.. MotifXF..
I noticed many Yammy fans stated that it has 2Gb flash ROM.
Actually it does not come installed UNLESS you buy one or two of it.
half Gb for $150; 2 Gb for $600(two 1Gb). etc..
These are special flash ROM; not RAM.. not USB thumb drives. Some confused this a lot.
And sampling RAM is still 128Mb.
And , by nature, writing to flash ROM is often slow.
don't like to wait? need even more sounds? you can still buy sound libraries in Yamaha internal format from Motifactor. Means more $$$.
Well...do I need 7000 appreggios? NOPE.
Karma will be fine for me. |
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T7
Junior Member
Joined: 13 Jul 2008
Posts: 91
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| Posted: Mon Feb 21, 2011 5:26 pm Post subject: |
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| mkpcola wrote: | I am getting Kronos...
Well...do I need 7000 appreggios? NOPE.
Karma will be fine for me. |
I'm getting Kronos too...
I don't need 7000 arpeggios either. I just want a programmable arp. |
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mkpcola
Joined: 21 Feb 2011
Posts: 20
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| Posted: Mon Feb 21, 2011 7:10 pm Post subject: |
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Programmable arp??
You know... according to specs, Kronos can save user Generated effects of Karma(about 1536). Oasys does not seem to have this feature.
No one knows that in detail.. yet(except korg employees).
I would rather get life than getting crazy editing appregios.
Synth workstations are designed for realtime fun playing it.
Those more than a thousand patterns are enough for me to play almost anything. Beyond that, I will use my computer sequencing programs. |
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T7
Junior Member
Joined: 13 Jul 2008
Posts: 91
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| Posted: Mon Feb 21, 2011 8:34 pm Post subject: |
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| mkpcola wrote: | Programmable arp??
You know... according to specs, Kronos can save user Generated effects of Karma(about 1536). Oasys does not seem to have this feature.
No one knows that in detail.. yet(except korg employees).
I would rather get life than getting crazy editing appregios.
Synth workstations are designed for realtime fun playing it.
Those more than a thousand patterns are enough for me to play almost anything. Beyond that, I will use my computer sequencing programs. |
What a knob.
A workstation is for doing what ever the **** you want to do with it.
The version of KARMA onboard the Kronos does not allow you to create and save arpeggio patterns, simple as that.
In any case, I create my own patterns rather than relying on a machine to create them for me. It's part of my creative process. |
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mkpcola
Joined: 21 Feb 2011
Posts: 20
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| Posted: Tue Feb 22, 2011 12:38 am Post subject: |
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Well..
Karma help me create any appregiated patterns I want in realtime. There are tons of parameters I can adjust to create any pattern I want.
Need to playback? Just skipback sample the sound I created and save to disk and I am done.
No need to edit one appregio at a time . Editing appregios? Dude .. we are in 2011. not 1977. What is your next project? To invent a wheel?
BTW, Tons of appregios have been created already across many synthesizers/sequencers(hardware or software) spanning many years. You are never original . SORRY! |
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X-Trade
Moderator
Joined: 14 Feb 2006
Posts: 6494
Location: Leeds, UK
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| Posted: Tue Feb 22, 2011 12:44 am Post subject: |
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If you have a specific pattern in mind and want to trigger it live, there is always RPPR.
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Current Gear: Kronos 61, RADIAS-R, Volca Bass, ESX-1, microKorg, MS2000B, R3, Kaossilator Pro +, MiniKP, AX3000B, nanoKontrol, nanoPad MK II,
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T7
Junior Member
Joined: 13 Jul 2008
Posts: 91
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| Posted: Tue Feb 22, 2011 3:18 am Post subject: |
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| mkpcola wrote: |
No need to edit one appregio at a time . Editing appregios? Dude .. we are in 2011. not 1977. What is your next project? To invent a wheel?
BTW, Tons of appregios have been created already across many synthesizers/sequencers(hardware or software) spanning many years. You are never original . SORRY! |
Most music has been done before. That doesn't change the fact that I would rather make it myself.
If you want to weed through a bunch of preset pattern "styles" and string them together, that's your prerogative. I'll pass.
As I've previously stated, I am fine with standard preprogrammed arp patterns like: Up, Down. But there is nothing more annoying than hearing a tune with a complex arp pattern you can spot from a mile away as coming from a particular synth manufacturer. Not to mention how utterly lame that is.
In any case, I just think my new Kronos should have a programmable arp. If it doesn't, fine. I am not interested in a pissing contest. Please go troll someone else. |
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