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jeebustrain
Platinum Member
Joined: 24 Jan 2011
Posts: 1284
Location: In a Roger Dean painting
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 Posted: Wed Jan 26, 2011 5:47 am Post subject: Re: How long until a Kronos user asks for new sounds..! |
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| ozy wrote: | | mikemolloyuk wrote: | | I bet there will be calls for new sounds for Kronos by about June..! |
don't know about new sounds, but...
... does the Kronos manage to produce a decent "Final Countdown Brass" patch?
It's a deal breaker for me. |
is it really that hard to figure out how to program one yourself? I've done one on both my Alesis Fusion and my OB-12. The Fusion took literally about 8 minutes to do.
I may be a "young" guy compared to some here, but 90% of my drive behind these instruments is the programming capabilities. I learned about synthesis on a Micromoog that I picked up for $30 at a garage sale (still have it). It's not difficult to do once you understand the fundamentals. It's just lazy, IMO. Especially when people insist that others produce the sounds and then demand it for free. I'm probably digressing a bit, but as one of the original Alesis Fusion owners, the community of freeloaders who insist on others doing the work for them just irks me. |
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Hedegaard
Senior Member
Joined: 20 Jan 2008
Posts: 498
Location: Denmark
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| Posted: Wed Jan 26, 2011 7:07 am Post subject: Re: How long until a Kronos user asks for new sounds..! |
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| ozy wrote: | | mikemolloyuk wrote: | | I bet there will be calls for new sounds for Kronos by about June..! |
don't know about new sounds, but...
... does the Kronos manage to produce a decent "Final Countdown Brass" patch?
It's a deal breaker for me. |
You'll need a Roland for that.... |
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cello
Platinum Member
Joined: 11 Jun 2009
Posts: 2152
Location: Glasgow, UK
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| Posted: Wed Jan 26, 2011 7:33 am Post subject: Re: How long until a Kronos user asks for new sounds..! |
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| jeebustrain wrote: | | ozy wrote: | | mikemolloyuk wrote: | | I bet there will be calls for new sounds for Kronos by about June..! |
don't know about new sounds, but...
... does the Kronos manage to produce a decent "Final Countdown Brass" patch?
It's a deal breaker for me. |
is it really that hard to figure out how to program one yourself? I've done one on both my Alesis Fusion and my OB-12. The Fusion took literally about 8 minutes to do.
I may be a "young" guy compared to some here, but 90% of my drive behind these instruments is the programming capabilities. I learned about synthesis on a Micromoog that I picked up for $30 at a garage sale (still have it). It's not difficult to do once you understand the fundamentals. It's just lazy, IMO. Especially when people insist that others produce the sounds and then demand it for free. I'm probably digressing a bit, but as one of the original Alesis Fusion owners, the community of freeloaders who insist on others doing the work for them just irks me. |
ozy is the forum joker... Trust me, he is not looking for such a patch. He also preferes to create his own sounds! He was being dry, witty and ironic in response to the OP who wants new sounds for a bit of kit that hasn't come out of the factory yet!
_________________
Plugged in: Fantom 8, Jupiter-X, Jupiter 80, System-8, JD-XA, V-Synth GTv2, FA-06, SE-02, JU-06A, TR-09, VT-4, Go:Livecast, Rubix44, Shure SM7b, Push2, Ableton 11 Suite, Sibelius, KRK Rokit 5, |
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ozy
Guest
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| Posted: Wed Jan 26, 2011 10:30 am Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | you need a roland for that |
I loved that one! It takes the cigar.
I'm gonna buy a Gaia later today. No, make that a V-Piano. So I'll be legitimized to complain that <<a 5000 bucks keyboard can't even play "jump">>.
btw: the most "requested for" vintage patches are ALL preset number 1, or default factory settings, of best seller synths.
Odd, isn't it?
Not "mildly difficult": just basic presets.
"Jump" will be produced by ANY analogue polysinth in "zero" position, just out of the box.
In Italy, the equivalent of "jump" is "the miminoog lead from PFM's 'The world became the world' [impressioni di settembre]",
whose patching is: buy a minimoog, turn it on, zero the parameters, glide on, play.
Emphasis in both cases is "as soon as you [u]buy the synth[/u]".
Buy, buy, buy...
For "Lucky Man", you take the "Impressioni" patch and... play it different.
Of course, "Cars" and "Orinoco flow" need more work. You gotta scroll through the presets,
and in the case of Car's "vox humana" you need to turn the mod wheel up, which is some job (a guy in Athens got his wrist strained by the effort).
So, 5 out of 6 "most interesting" patches requested on forums are...
... pure hardware, zero parameters, no programming, everything in the players' skills and the melody. [Lucky Man's solo is just Moog sonic power plus haunting bluesy melody. Jump is devastating Oberheim ooompf plus Eddie's rhythm energy. No synth programming time spent there].
Why then people make those patches the focus of PROGRAMMING?
There's not the same anxious request for more complex patches (anybody ever read on a froum, somebody asking for "How do I program the minimoog "steel drums in Karn Evil 9 part two"? Anybody ever asked on a forum "I lost my sleep in trying to recreate joe zawinul's "nubian sundance" intro riff?. No. "Jump", which requires no effort whatsoever).
Everybody thinks they need "better programming", or event "better synths", in order to replicate the most trivial patches, NOT the most difficult ones!
Which means that people who are lazy programmers, are first of all LAZY LISTENERS.
Masses go for the easiest and rawest sound, and obsess on it.
Why?
Why the heck don't people ask "I want a synth with 2000 patches pre-programmed, all of them the most difficult patches, those which I'll never be able to program because if Wendy Carlos spent one year on them, I have no chance of ever learning".
No: everbody wants a "best of the worst". A compilation of the most ho-hum.
Food for thought.
| cello wrote: | | ozy is the forum joker |
Me? I am always deadly serious.
I am a clown, but one of the "IT" kind...
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BasariStudios
Approved Merchant
Joined: 29 May 2005
Posts: 6510
Location: NYC, USA
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| Posted: Wed Jan 26, 2011 4:10 pm Post subject: Re: How long until a Kronos user asks for new sounds..! |
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| cello wrote: | | for a bit of kit that hasn't come out of the factory yet! |
Probably not even MASS produced yet...still in Prototype form.
_________________
http://www.basaristudios.com
Cubase 8.5 Pro. Windows 7 X64. ASUS SaberTooth X99. Intel I7 5820K. ASUS GTX 960 Strix OC 2GB. 4x8 GB G.SKILL.
2 850 PRO 256GB SSDs. 1 850 EVO 1TB SSD. Acustica: Nebula Server 3 Ultimate, Murano, Magenta 3, Navy, Titanium. |
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jeebustrain
Platinum Member
Joined: 24 Jan 2011
Posts: 1284
Location: In a Roger Dean painting
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| Posted: Wed Jan 26, 2011 10:43 pm Post subject: Re: How long until a Kronos user asks for new sounds..! |
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| cello wrote: | | jeebustrain wrote: | | ozy wrote: | | mikemolloyuk wrote: | | I bet there will be calls for new sounds for Kronos by about June..! |
don't know about new sounds, but...
... does the Kronos manage to produce a decent "Final Countdown Brass" patch?
It's a deal breaker for me. |
is it really that hard to figure out how to program one yourself? I've done one on both my Alesis Fusion and my OB-12. The Fusion took literally about 8 minutes to do.
I may be a "young" guy compared to some here, but 90% of my drive behind these instruments is the programming capabilities. I learned about synthesis on a Micromoog that I picked up for $30 at a garage sale (still have it). It's not difficult to do once you understand the fundamentals. It's just lazy, IMO. Especially when people insist that others produce the sounds and then demand it for free. I'm probably digressing a bit, but as one of the original Alesis Fusion owners, the community of freeloaders who insist on others doing the work for them just irks me. |
ozy is the forum joker... Trust me, he is not looking for such a patch. He also preferes to create his own sounds! He was being dry, witty and ironic in response to the OP who wants new sounds for a bit of kit that hasn't come out of the factory yet! |
I just realized that after rereading the thread. I am a n00b around this place, so I guess I should be allowed at least one gaff. |
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Francois
Approved Merchant
Joined: 06 May 2003
Posts: 4854
Location: Northants - UK
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| Posted: Thu Jan 27, 2011 12:39 am Post subject: |
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Dear Korg,
I can't be arsed learning how to program my own sounds and your Kronos is far too complicated for me. Please pay a bunch of sound designers so I can have new sounds.
Yours... |
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EXer
Platinum Member
Joined: 17 Jan 2011
Posts: 558
Location: France
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| Posted: Thu Jan 27, 2011 12:53 am Post subject: |
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HEY !
 A synth IS NOT a SOUND BANK !
A synth IS A SOUND FACTORY !
Users, please learn how to use your synth !
Or buy a Motif and go to motifator.com  |
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hwbyrne
Joined: 27 Jul 2011
Posts: 2
Location: United States
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| Posted: Wed Jul 27, 2011 11:15 pm Post subject: Learning how to use/program a Kronos Synth |
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Do any classes exist (on the North West Coast of the USA) for learning/improving/perfecting one's skills for programming the Kronos?
Thanks,
Harry
| EXer wrote: | HEY !
A synth IS NOT a SOUND BANK !
A synth IS A SOUND FACTORY !
Users, please learn how to use your synth !
Or buy a Motif and go to motifator.com |
_________________
Play On! |
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hwbyrne
Joined: 27 Jul 2011
Posts: 2
Location: United States
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| Posted: Wed Jul 27, 2011 11:23 pm Post subject: Kronos and Van Halen |
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Thanks for the insight, since I'm a real beginner (just one year on piano) and waiting on my Kronos 88. I look forward to playing with the Synth, but it is nice to know some popular sounds are pre-programmed, just to get started. I know how to find a piano teacher, but I have no idea how to find a Synth teacher. Any ideas there?
Thanks again...
| ozy wrote: | | Quote: | | you need a roland for that |
I loved that one! It takes the cigar.
I'm gonna buy a Gaia later today. No, make that a V-Piano. So I'll be legitimized to complain that <<a 5000 bucks keyboard can't even play "jump">>.
btw: the most "requested for" vintage patches are ALL preset number 1, or default factory settings, of best seller synths.
Odd, isn't it?
Not "mildly difficult": just basic presets.
"Jump" will be produced by ANY analogue polysinth in "zero" position, just out of the box.
In Italy, the equivalent of "jump" is "the miminoog lead from PFM's 'The world became the world' [impressioni di settembre]",
whose patching is: buy a minimoog, turn it on, zero the parameters, glide on, play.
Emphasis in both cases is "as soon as you [u]buy the synth[/u]".
Buy, buy, buy...
For "Lucky Man", you take the "Impressioni" patch and... play it different.
Of course, "Cars" and "Orinoco flow" need more work. You gotta scroll through the presets,
and in the case of Car's "vox humana" you need to turn the mod wheel up, which is some job (a guy in Athens got his wrist strained by the effort).
So, 5 out of 6 "most interesting" patches requested on forums are...
... pure hardware, zero parameters, no programming, everything in the players' skills and the melody. [Lucky Man's solo is just Moog sonic power plus haunting bluesy melody. Jump is devastating Oberheim ooompf plus Eddie's rhythm energy. No synth programming time spent there].
Why then people make those patches the focus of PROGRAMMING?
There's not the same anxious request for more complex patches (anybody ever read on a froum, somebody asking for "How do I program the minimoog "steel drums in Karn Evil 9 part two"? Anybody ever asked on a forum "I lost my sleep in trying to recreate joe zawinul's "nubian sundance" intro riff?. No. "Jump", which requires no effort whatsoever).
Everybody thinks they need "better programming", or event "better synths", in order to replicate the most trivial patches, NOT the most difficult ones!
Which means that people who are lazy programmers, are first of all LAZY LISTENERS.
Masses go for the easiest and rawest sound, and obsess on it.
Why?
Why the heck don't people ask "I want a synth with 2000 patches pre-programmed, all of them the most difficult patches, those which I'll never be able to program because if Wendy Carlos spent one year on them, I have no chance of ever learning".
No: everbody wants a "best of the worst". A compilation of the most ho-hum.
Food for thought.
| cello wrote: | | ozy is the forum joker |
Me? I am always deadly serious.
I am a clown, but one of the "IT" kind...
|
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Play On! |
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drchris
Full Member
Joined: 21 May 2011
Posts: 178
Location: Memphis, TN
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| Posted: Thu Jul 28, 2011 1:22 am Post subject: Re: Kronos and Van Halen |
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| hwbyrne wrote: | Thanks for the insight, since I'm a real beginner (just one year on piano) and waiting on my Kronos 88. I look forward to playing with the Synth, but it is nice to know some popular sounds are pre-programmed, just to get started. I know how to find a piano teacher, but I have no idea how to find a Synth teacher. Any ideas there?
Thanks again... |
While I was waiting on my Kronos, I got a bit of a head start with some videos, the VST's I had and even the iPad program iMS-20.
For the MS-20, the series of videos that starts out:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lV5FhZSrDVk&feature=relmfu
is wonderful. This is a good place to start if you've never messed with synthesis at all. If you can get either the Legacy VST's or the iPad app iMS-20, you can follow right along.
If you want to jump in more, learning about FM synthesis is a good next step. There is a series for this too:
http://www.youtube.com/user/nextstepaudio#p/u/11/cRazfCjnF8M[/url]
This series is about general FM synthesis and sets a groundwork for understanding the MOD-7 engine. He uses the FM-8 soft synth as his example engine. The tutorial in the Parameter Guide for the Kronos in the MOD-7 section is also very valuable, but better when you have your Kronos in hand.
If you can get your head around the basics even in the MS-20, you'll have made quite a step by the time you get your Kronos!
Have Fun!
Chris
_________________
Kronos 88 # 000135
Ableton Live / AKAI APC40 / AKAI MPK49 |
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Vlad_77
Senior Member
Joined: 08 Jun 2011
Posts: 380
Location: The Netherlands
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| Posted: Thu Jul 28, 2011 2:03 pm Post subject: |
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How much it has all changed even since the late 80's and early 90s. Do you folks remember that Keyboard magazine used to publish patches of the month in each issue. I remember jumping to that section first! For those of you that do not remember, this Dominic Milano column had tables for every submitted patch which detailed the values for the given patch. I find myself imagining what a patch/parameter list would look like now and how many PAGES it would take in Keyboard magazine from synths like the PC3, Kronos, Kawai K5000, etc.!
But the really cool thing was that in addition to the patches, Milano would offer suggestions on taking the patch even further.
I wish I could remember which issue it was, but Milano wrote a really cool article in which there were 25 programming challenges and the idea was to see how many of these you could meet.
There were some cool ones like: "A piano underwater being played by an octopus - imagine sea weed growing through the keys." Another I believe was, "Make a world ending fat patch - then make it as though it is being played through a tiny speaker."
What Milano was pointing out of course was that producers would want a specific sound and would use rather vague terms and it was the synthesist's job to figure out what the producer wanted - immediately. 
My hat is off to you folks who used Deltas, ARPS, Moogs, and other synths that had no presets. It is still a mystery to me how you could keep track of all the settings and for those huge modulars, where to patch the damned cables!
I do not want more sounds from Korg. I just want more banks to play in without having to sacrifice factory patches which DO serve as a VERY nice foundation. I know there is another thread discussing this. Of all the keyboards I have (note: not that many really as I am no Sina) the two most powerful in terms of synthesis power are the Kronos and the PC3. The difference is that the PC3 has a TON of room for user created patches without sacrificing factory patches. The Kronos, which I feel is a programmer's dream offers ONE bank, and you have to choose whether that bank is HD-1 or EXi. Actually I would have loved it if there were TWO initialized user banks: one for HD-1 and one for EXi. This seems such an easy thing to have implemented on a synth that is MADE to tweak and/or deep edit. Disk mode is cool and is a workaround, but, I am still confused by the decision to have one bank of 128 initialized programs. Maybe Korg realized that people would not be editing? HD-1 is amazing, but, it is the other 8 synth engines that really are the thang and I can easily fill up 128 locations among the 8 EXi's. Still, it is FAR better than the 32 patch locations on the original DX-7!!
Ahimsa,
Vlad
_________________
Current gear: Kronos, Jupiter 80, Kurzweil PC3,Roland Fantom X8, Roland XV-88 (yep, its old, but the ACTION is heaven and those XV-3080 sounds are still wonderful for me), Radias-R, Motif ES (yeah it's older but I love the guitars ) |
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Broadwave
Platinum Member
Joined: 25 May 2011
Posts: 1118
Location: Manchester UK
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| Posted: Thu Jul 28, 2011 3:05 pm Post subject: |
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| Vlad_77 wrote: |
My hat is off to you folks who used Deltas, ARPS, Moogs, and other synths
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Still using my Oddy and Yamaha on a daily basis, not having memories makes you work harder... especially live
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Synth DIY Projects |
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PinkFloydDudi
Guest
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| Posted: Thu Jul 28, 2011 4:04 pm Post subject: |
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Just an overall thumbs up for many of the posters in this thread.
While the comments are hilarious - it is almost scary that I'm sure somewhere out there, there is a person mad about the lack of Final Countdown preset on the kronos.
lol |
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