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burningbusch Approved Merchant
Joined: 30 Jan 2005 Posts: 1203 Location: Seattle
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Posted: Thu Feb 03, 2011 10:57 pm Post subject: Drum Tracks |
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Regarding Drum Tracks, I pulled this from Proview:
"Improved from the M3 and M50 Music Workstations, Drum Tracks can create everything from a simple reference beat to an outline rhythm track up to a full-blown drum track for your music productions. KRONOS now includes drum performances from professional artists, able to generate grooves reproducing the distinctive feel of a pro drummer."
What does all that mean? What's the difference between a reference beat, outline and full-blown drum track? Can/do Drum Tracks use the new large ambient drum libraries? If these are not loaded, will it default to smaller kits?
Also, from the M3 brochure on Drum Tracks, it seems to say that sampled drum loops can be used. Is that true? And on the Kronos as well?
If so is there any reason a drum track couldn't be an audio WAV of a rhythm section backing tracking?
Busch. |
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billbaker Platinum Member
Joined: 31 May 2006 Posts: 2206 Location: Vienna, Virginia, USA
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Posted: Fri Feb 04, 2011 3:27 am Post subject: |
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Partial answer:
Ref. beat = essentially metronome with drum sounds
Outline track = basic beat or desired "feel" - probably to be replaced later, or to provide a sketch of what a "real" drummer might do... A / B / Bridge etc.
Full track = end / best version of drums including A, B, Bridge, appropriate fills, beat variations, break beats etc.
"Pro" tracks = beats recorded directly and as much as possible unquantized to preserve "human" feel.
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Wave samples (rhythms) should be useable as backing tracks within usual limitations for sampled drum tracks - such as trigger timing, matching kits, pitch and aliasing issues arising from adjusting tempo.
BB _________________ billbaker
Triton Extreme 88, Triton Classic Pro, Trinity V3 Pro
+E-mu, Alesis, Korg, Kawai, Yamaha, Line-6, TC Elecronics, Behringer, Lexicon... |
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burningbusch Approved Merchant
Joined: 30 Jan 2005 Posts: 1203 Location: Seattle
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Posted: Fri Feb 04, 2011 1:08 pm Post subject: |
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Thanks BB,
That makes sense. It would be great to hear from Korg as to the exact way in which Drum Tracks have been improved.
I did find an answer to one of my questions regarding sampled loops here:
http://karma-lab.wikidot.com/korg-m3:converting-sample-loops-into-drum-track-patterns
What I was hoping for is the ability to start playback of an audio file backing track from the SSD when the Drum Track button is pushed. I don't think we have that. It seems like it wouldn't be that difficult to implement. I have some nice backing tracks with using real instruments that would be great to be able to pull up. I'm pretty sure this can be done in sequence mode.
Busch. |
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billbaker Platinum Member
Joined: 31 May 2006 Posts: 2206 Location: Vienna, Virginia, USA
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Posted: Fri Feb 04, 2011 3:44 pm Post subject: |
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Hmmm...
I think you're right there. The drum tracks per se are sequences themselves (similar to arps), not samples playing (as you want). The advantage for the user is the ability to switch the same beats to a different kit - or to load samples for their own custom kit that would use the beats.
But you SHOULD be able to set up single key triggers (say black keys at the bottom octave) to play a sample loop "construction kit" -- Beat A, Beat B, Break, etc. - such that they acted just like a drum track; looping until the next key was played and transitioning at the "1" in each loop.
You might look at "Twiddly Bits" and other places for genre specific MIDI drum tracks - they are more likely to be supported under the actual drum track function IF there are USER slots available -- my best guess.
BB
BB _________________ billbaker
Triton Extreme 88, Triton Classic Pro, Trinity V3 Pro
+E-mu, Alesis, Korg, Kawai, Yamaha, Line-6, TC Elecronics, Behringer, Lexicon... |
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Hal2001 Senior Member
Joined: 26 Feb 2011 Posts: 367 Location: US
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Posted: Wed Mar 23, 2011 12:37 am Post subject: |
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billbaker wrote: | Partial answer:
Ref. beat = essentially metronome with drum sounds
Outline track = basic beat or desired "feel" - probably to be replaced later, or to provide a sketch of what a "real" drummer might do... A / B / Bridge etc.
Full track = end / best version of drums including A, B, Bridge, appropriate fills, beat variations, break beats etc.
BB |
How do you think the Full Track would be put together? Would they be triggered by the touch screen pads? By the keys? Or would there be any dedicated buttons that would move along the different rhythm parts (perhaps even triggered by a pedal). That would be great because then I would not need an arranger keyboard like a pa3x because I could accomplish the same thing and have a great workstation at the same time (for one-man band use). Thanks for any thoughts.
Hal |
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Davidb Platinum Member
Joined: 21 Oct 2002 Posts: 1592
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Posted: Wed Mar 23, 2011 2:22 am Post subject: |
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And keeping on topic.
Is drum tracks included in HD-1 sounds only or is also present in Exi´s sounds as well, I mean, Polisix, MOD-7, Ep-1, etc? _________________ Regards.
D. |
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danatkorg Product Manager, Korg R&D
Joined: 21 Jan 2005 Posts: 4204 Location: California, USA
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Posted: Wed Mar 23, 2011 3:45 am Post subject: |
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Davidb wrote: | And keeping on topic.
Is drum tracks included in HD-1 sounds only or is also present in Exi´s sounds as well, I mean, Polisix, MOD-7, Ep-1, etc? |
Hi David,
The Drum Track is included in both HD-1 and EXi Programs; the two work identically in this respect.
Best regards,
Dan _________________ Dan Phillips
Manager of Product Development, Korg R&D
Personal website: www.danphillips.com
For technical support, please contact your Korg Distributor: http://www.korg.co.jp/English/Distributors/
Regretfully, I cannot offer technical support directly.
If you need to contact me for purposes other than technical support, please do not send PMs; instead, send email to dan@korgrd.com |
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StephenKay KARMA Developer Approved Merchant
Joined: 18 Jun 2002 Posts: 2979 Location: Scottsdale, AZ
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Posted: Wed Mar 23, 2011 4:59 am Post subject: |
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billbaker wrote: | Outline track = basic beat or desired "feel" - probably to be replaced later, or to provide a sketch of what a "real" drummer might do... A / B / Bridge etc.
Full track = end / best version of drums including A, B, Bridge, appropriate fills, beat variations, break beats etc. |
This functionality does not exist in Kronos/M3 etc. (ability to change Drum Tracks within the program/combi by hitting buttons or pads, i.e. A Beat, B beat, chorus, fill, intro etc.) You can change the drum pattern manually while it is playing by selecting a different pattern from the pattern list. I believe you can change the drum pattern in the sequencer and record the changes using sysex.
KARMA provides some of this functionality by allowing a KARMA drum groove to have 8 different scenes, which can be changed with the 8 buttons of the control panel such that different variations of the groove and breakdowns can be achieved. _________________ Stephen Kay - KARMA Developer • Karma-Lab - karma-lab.com
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Davidb Platinum Member
Joined: 21 Oct 2002 Posts: 1592
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Posted: Wed Mar 23, 2011 1:47 pm Post subject: |
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danatkorg wrote: | Davidb wrote: | And keeping on topic.
Is drum tracks included in HD-1 sounds only or is also present in Exi´s sounds as well, I mean, Polisix, MOD-7, Ep-1, etc? |
Hi David,
The Drum Track is included in both HD-1 and EXi Programs; the two work identically in this respect.
Best regards,
Dan |
Thanx so much for the answer Dan.
Take care. _________________ Regards.
D. |
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Synthoid Platinum Member
Joined: 17 Mar 2003 Posts: 3300 Location: PA, USA
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Posted: Wed Mar 23, 2011 2:50 pm Post subject: |
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Thanks for the info, Stephen.
_________________ M3, Triton Classic, Radias, Motif XS, Alesis Ion |
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Shakil Platinum Member
Joined: 08 Jan 2002 Posts: 1169 Location: New Jersey, USA
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Posted: Wed Mar 23, 2011 7:16 pm Post subject: |
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StephenKay wrote: | billbaker wrote: | Outline track = basic beat or desired "feel" - probably to be replaced later, or to provide a sketch of what a "real" drummer might do... A / B / Bridge etc.
Full track = end / best version of drums including A, B, Bridge, appropriate fills, beat variations, break beats etc. |
This functionality does not exist in Kronos/M3 etc. (ability to change Drum Tracks within the program/combi by hitting buttons or pads, i.e. A Beat, B beat, chorus, fill, intro etc.) You can change the drum pattern manually while it is playing by selecting a different pattern from the pattern list. I believe you can change the drum pattern in the sequencer and record the changes using sysex.
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RPPR is our friend here. After recording the 'Drum Track' Changes sysex in sequencer, make them patterns. Then map the patterns to the pads on M3......... you have Intro, Variation 1, Variation 2, Variation 3, Break... Ending... The only hard part is to do the auto fill-ins... You can have the fill-in as non-looping pattern, but then have to restart the drum-track manually. Of course, all this is possible only in Song mode. _________________ Roland Fantom-G6 ARX1, Korg M3-m exb-Radias, Korg Z1-18v, Roland MC-808, Roland MC-909, Korg microKontrol. |
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