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Rim Algorithms over the #25 not selectable

 
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winged EEL
Junior Member


Joined: 27 Jan 2011
Posts: 55
Location: Newfoundland, Canada

PostPosted: Sat Feb 05, 2011 9:44 pm    Post subject: Rim Algorithms over the #25 not selectable Reply with quote

Been getting the hang of programing.

I have discovered that I can not select a Rim Algorithm over the number 25, even though the list goes to 36.

Although can select all 36 Algorithms for the Head

Anyone else find this or is my Wavedrum not working right?

Thanks
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WaveDrummer
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Joined: 25 Jan 2011
Posts: 217
Location: Connecticut, USA

PostPosted: Sat Feb 05, 2011 10:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Nothing wrong with your Wavedrum, it has to do with the algorithms themselves.

If you look at the Voice Name List, alorithms 27-36 are labeled as "Double Size " algorithms. These algorithms combine the processing of both the head and the rim to achieve the greater detail that is necessary for an accurate reproduction of some of the acoustic drums (snare, djembe, etc).

If any of the Double-Size algorithms are selected for the head, then NO algorithm at all is available to assign to the rim. If you look at P#01 Snare Drum, you will see [---] in the display for ALG for everything except button #1 which will display [29] for the snare drum algorithm.

As you can see, once a double-size algorithm is selected for the head, no other allgorithms OR PCMs can be assigned to the other locations (head or rim). There is always one algorithm (single or double) assigned to the head no matter what (of course you could always turn its level down to zero if you only wanted to hear a PCM sound on the head). Since it is impossible to assign NO algorithm to the head (a blank algorithm, if you will) the Wavedrum does not allow you to assign a double-size one to the rim. If you were able to assign a double-size algorithm to the rim, then you wouldn't be able to assign any sounds to the head!

One advantage of working with Double-Size algorithms is that editing is limited to quite a few less parameters since you only have one sound source to work with. The downside is, you can't combine other algorithms or PCMs at the same time.

Again, if you refer to the Voice Name List (from the manual) you can clearly see which factory programs utilize one of the Double-Size algorithms. Those are the ones that show only one algorithm and then three empty boxes with a dash where the other sounds are usually displayed.

EX:
P#18 [28] [-] [-] [-]


In the above example, P18 is named "Bongo (Double-size)" and uses algorithm 28.
The "double-size" part of that refers to the algorithm itself, and is not meant imply that the program is trying to emulate a giant, double size bongo!

Make sense? Smile
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winged EEL
Junior Member


Joined: 27 Jan 2011
Posts: 55
Location: Newfoundland, Canada

PostPosted: Sun Feb 06, 2011 6:50 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Nope , still don't understand because I'm not using Double-Size algorithms.

l'm editing Program # 88, it has a Single Size algorithm (#4 Analog) for the head.

I want to select a Single Size algorithm (# 26 1812) for the rim.

My Wavedrum will not let me select an algorithm over # 25, specifically Single Size algorithm # 26 for the rim, in Program #88.
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WaveDrummer
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Joined: 25 Jan 2011
Posts: 217
Location: Connecticut, USA

PostPosted: Sun Feb 06, 2011 12:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

AAHHhhhhhh, Algorithm #26 1812... Evil or Very Mad

That particular Algorithm has a life all to its own. Personally, I've always been convinced that either there was an error in the programming of #26 or there was an error in its description.

As far as I can tell, it just doesn't seem to "work." Take any program that does use ALG # 26, like Program# 9 Vintage Electronic Drums. Turn the the volume all the way down on the other algorithm and PCMs and what you'll be left with is...What is that? Confused I've yet to figure out just what that sound is supposed to be.

The way that algorithm is described in the manual makes no sense to me whatsoever. Snare drums? Hardly. And that "cannon shot" that is referred to? I've yet to find it, no matter how hard I hit the Wavedrum. It seems to just be the one glitch in the system. I don't think your missing anything by NOT being able to assign it to the rim because it just doesn't sound like...anything, really.

As to WHY you can't select it? I can only assume that due to the description of it, it was never meant to be suitable for the rim. To that end, many of the algorithms will not offer all the same details or nuances when applied to the rim anyway. If you get deeply into the editing, you'll find that many of the parameters in Edit 2 Mode will have much less effect on an algorithm when it is assigned to the rim as opposed to the head. The rim itself is just not going to respond the way a drumhead will. The information being fed to the sensors will be quite different as a result.

I have always chalked up the 1812 algorithm to just some weird glitch in the Wavedrum. There a few PCM Instruments where I have found the same thing--either the sound doesn't come close to its description or the sound is the exact duplicate of an adjacent sound. It's rare, but I have found a few (don't recall which ones at the moment).

But with all the other possibilities that the Wavedrum does offer, I've never been too disappointed over these rare anomalies.

For the curious minded, I actually have raised this issue with some of the people at Korg. I have yet to get to the bottom of it however. I will inquire again, more directly, now that you have brought this up.

Now, if we eliminate algorithm # 26 from the equation, does the rest of my previous explanation make sense?
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winged EEL
Junior Member


Joined: 27 Jan 2011
Posts: 55
Location: Newfoundland, Canada

PostPosted: Sun Feb 06, 2011 9:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yes, it makes sense now, my confusion was because of this glitchy Algorithm #26.Twisted Evil AAAAUUUURRRRRGGGGGG !!

It would be good to have an explanation from Korg, as to what is up with Algorithm #26, because it really did perplex me and stalled my exploration of programing, thinking that perhaps my Wavedrum was defective.

Thanks for clearing this up.
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Bertotti
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Joined: 10 Jul 2010
Posts: 3384
Location: Middle of nowhere

PostPosted: Mon Feb 07, 2011 3:25 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I was playing it today. I think it did sound like 5 snares but to get the real percussive attack I had to thump right below the head mic with a finger. I had poor results any other way and did not try to twaek any of the parameters yet.
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