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Frans N
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Joined: 23 Mar 2010
Posts: 159

PostPosted: Thu Feb 17, 2011 2:58 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

karmathanever wrote:
Hi snazzyplayer

Personally I wouldn't go near it having owned and recorded with T3. Great sounds but take some of that massive DSP from them and it ain't so different from the rest. They have been very smart with DSP/sound configs.


Yes and that's the reason why the Tyros 4 sound plastic and unnatural to me.
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snazzyplayer



Joined: 31 Oct 2007
Posts: 24
Location: Hollywood, California

PostPosted: Thu Feb 17, 2011 3:23 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi Pete,

I use a Leslie 147, with a combo preamp.

Yes, sound is very personal...I love Korg's workstations, but the PA-series doesn't quite float my boat. The worst is the PA-500, which shouldn't be regarded as anything approaching "pro"...it is a toy to my hands and ears. Everything about it screams "budget!"

I'm thinking about getting a Kronos to use with the Tyros4...I don't require all the editing functions and features of the Korg arrangers...I'm in my early 60's and have been pro since my teens...now playing is primarily fun, and tweaking is not...used to be the other way around.

I am good friends with a Yamaha clinician from Canada who does a marvelous job on style editing, and who has given me many tips, so I'm getting quite a bit out of the old Tyros4.

Never did like the Tyros3..,no amount of EQing or changes to the compressor could give it any sparkle...the Tyros4 has it right out of the box.

I sincerely hope Korg give the PA3X the genuine upgrade it deserves...for those who love tweaking and editing, starting out with stellar sounds means there's no where to go but up...in spite of Yamaha's "home player" approach, the T4 certainly sounds thoroughly professional, and time spent with SA and SA2 voice technique is not wasted as they are incredibly expressive during "live" play. The OS is very workable for me, although I do understand where you might find it lacking.

For recording (and not so much "live"), Korg's DNC are excellent, and I do hope they are improved even more from the PA2Xpro...so far, I haven't heard anything demo-wise to make me change up to the PA3X, but, again, those demos aren't very well done.

It is so cool that we live in times where it is almost impossible to buy a poor sounding instrument...basically, all there is to choose is an OS and features that suit the performer/player.

Pete
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karmathanever
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Joined: 12 Jan 2004
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 17, 2011 4:00 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
I am good friends with a Yamaha clinician from Canada who does a marvelous job on style editing, and who has given me many tips, so I'm getting quite a bit out of the old Tyros4.

That would be a major bonus - having such a contact...
Quote:
It is so cool that we live in times where it is almost impossible to buy a poor sounding instrument...basically, all there is to choose is an OS and features that suit the performer/player.


+1 Very Happy[/quote]
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Frans N
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Joined: 23 Mar 2010
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 17, 2011 3:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I own a Korg PA500 and there is nothing toyish about it. The only toys on the market are the arrangers from Yamaha starting with the cheapest to the most overpriced Tyros 4 crap.
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Asena
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Joined: 03 Mar 2004
Posts: 2553
Location: Sweden/Malmoe

PostPosted: Thu Feb 17, 2011 4:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Comon guys Yamy or KORGY, it,s al about what you are upp to, I,m a great kb player, whit skills, And i need Al the benefits from KORG, and al is about ME, How i Sound and How i Like the playing.
I,m confused, Couse my dealer here says the 3 x will be here in may end.

And he also says the price is not decided, He means it can cost more than we belive.

Yamaha T 4 Sounds god, but it,s still KB, Not a real Workstation as 3 X.
I realy hope its the Unit I Need, otherwaise i will go for a real OA unit, like Liontracks or something better, lets see..
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snazzyplayer



Joined: 31 Oct 2007
Posts: 24
Location: Hollywood, California

PostPosted: Thu Feb 17, 2011 5:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Frans N wrote:
I own a Korg PA500 and there is nothing toyish about it. .


My apologies, Mr. N...I did not mean to insult your choice of keyboards.

Honestly, I wouldn't laugh at anyone who owns a PA-500, but it is, most definitely, not an arranger I would use.


Personally, I think all arrangers are overpriced...but, it's the best type of instrument for my musical needs. I don't want (or more accurately, need) an arranger with workstation features...software sequencers are far more powerful than what is on any arranger (including Korg).

No, I mainly want "live" play flexibility and great sounds...so far DNC isn't quite up to SA/SA2 for that kind of expressive power...it's good, mind you, but, it still has a way to go, again, in my opinion.

Hopefully the PA3X will take it to that level.

Pete
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Frans N
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Joined: 23 Mar 2010
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 17, 2011 5:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I don't find my PA500 overpriced. I bought it for 995 Euro New. The only 2 arrangers I find overpriced are the Tyros 4 and the Ketron Audya. Even the new PA3X is about $1000 cheaper then these 2.
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snazzyplayer



Joined: 31 Oct 2007
Posts: 24
Location: Hollywood, California

PostPosted: Thu Feb 17, 2011 5:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Frans N wrote:
I don't find my PA500 overpriced. .


I am glad it's working for you, Frans.

Still, I can't agree that the PA-500 isn't overpriced...it is, in my opinion.

We'll just have to agree to disagree.

Yes, the PA-500 has lots of great editing features, but it doesn't have the sound quality of even the Roland Prelude (unfortunately discontinued) or some of the lower end Yamaha arrangers.

And, again, this is my personal opinion.

Unlike you, I am not brand loyal...personally, I feel that is far too limiting, especially in this day and age.

Pete
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Frans N
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 17, 2011 5:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hmm strange you say that because I own also a Roland GW8 ( a prelude without speakers) and listening the 2 side by side the PA500 sound much better then the GW 8.

I am not brand loyal. I always played Yamaha but changed to Korg when I heard the PA80 for the first time and was blown away by the powerful sounds the Korgs have comparing to Yamaha.
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snazzyplayer



Joined: 31 Oct 2007
Posts: 24
Location: Hollywood, California

PostPosted: Thu Feb 17, 2011 6:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Frans N wrote:
Hmm strange you say that because I own also a Roland GW8 ( a prelude without speakers) and listening the 2 side by side the PA500 sound much better then the GW 8.

I am not brand loyal. I always played Yamaha but changed to Korg when I heard the PA80 for the first time and was blown away by the powerful sounds the Korgs have comparing to Yamaha.


I thought the Prelude had a warmer, richer sound than the PA-500.

I am glad you aren't brand loyal, as it sure does limit one's options.

I am the opposite of you (probably why we don't agree Wink ) in that I played Korgs (I-series, PA) and now primarily use Yamaha after hearing, but not buying, the Tyros2, and then playing the Tyros4, which blows away anything presently being made by Korg.

Vive la différence! Very Happy

Pete
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adimatis
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Joined: 10 Feb 2005
Posts: 284
Location: oradea, romania

PostPosted: Thu Feb 17, 2011 9:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

no brand loyalty here, but Prelude's sound are weak even compared with pa50, except for some of them, very few.

per total, korg's low end arrangers are by far the best for the costs!
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snazzyplayer



Joined: 31 Oct 2007
Posts: 24
Location: Hollywood, California

PostPosted: Thu Feb 17, 2011 9:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

adimatis wrote:
no brand loyalty here, but Prelude's sound are weak even compared with pa50, except for some of them, very few.

per total, korg's low end arrangers are by far the best for the costs!


It's been a while since I've played the Prelude, so you may be right.

Is that what you play...a Korg PA-50?

Since you seem to know your Korg quite well, what PA-series would be in the same price range of a PSR-S910 for instance?

Would it have DNC voices, that is, something comparable to the SA voices (and to a lesser extent, Mega Voices) in the Yamaha?

The PA-500, as I understand, does not utilize DNC...do you think the replacement model will have at least a few of these sounds?

After playing the Tyros4, I have not spent any time on my PA2Xpro...yes, it has some cool features the Yamaha does not have, but those SA voices (especially the SA2) are frighteningly real...even the synth sounds, which are supposedly very similar to the Motif, seem superior in the Tyros4.

Have you played a Tyros4?

Pete
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adimatis
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Joined: 10 Feb 2005
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Location: oradea, romania

PostPosted: Fri Feb 18, 2011 4:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I haven't played a Tyros 4 yet. I am looking for one to play... Wink Yes, I agree the mechanisms for SA voices are adding to the realism, when and if used properly. I remember playing T3 - nice experience. But the fact is, the samples them selves, and the brilliance and fidelity of Korg sounds is more appealing to me. DNC do have advantages over SA, like when you can use them, but they are not necessary so spectacular as SA2 articulations. I guess here it really is down to personal preferences.

I am myself waiting to see what will be next "cheap" model from Korg. I don't think they will include DNC in it. If you are really after SA voices, Yamaha is the way to go. psr910 is still the MOTL arranger to offer that.
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karmathanever
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Joined: 12 Jan 2004
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 19, 2011 3:16 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

adimatis wrote:
DNC do have advantages over SA, like when you can use them


Agree - this was another negative for me on the Tyros.

Pete Very Happy
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snazzyplayer



Joined: 31 Oct 2007
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Location: Hollywood, California

PostPosted: Sat Feb 19, 2011 9:23 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

karmathanever wrote:
adimatis wrote:
DNC do have advantages over SA, like when you can use them


Agree - this was another negative for me on the Tyros.

Pete Very Happy


Why would the SA be less advantageous, for you, Pete?

Would DNC be better for live play?

Like any other feature, SA and SA will reward the player for time spent developing a technique (no different than using aftertouch, or the pitch/mod wheels) using these voices.

In what way do DNC voices respond to live input that would make them more responsive than, let's say, SA or SA2?

Also, these SA/SA2 voices are now available for use in the styles; something that really adds a new dimension to them.

I know this is a Korg forum (and I have a Korg)...I'm not trying to promote Tyros4 or it's features...what I am doing, is trying to understand the main advantages of DNC voices in regards to just sitting down and actually playing them along with a style?

Pete
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