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nowtime Full Member
Joined: 27 Aug 2009 Posts: 216
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Posted: Mon Feb 07, 2011 11:33 pm Post subject: Vocoders: Kronos vs. R3 vs. M3 vs. MicroKorg |
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I am a big fan of the vocoder on the R3. Liked the one on the MicroKorg as well - it was different, more lo-fi, but got some interesting and fun sounds out of it.
I was wondering if any vocoder fans have any experience with the M3 vocoder or can speculate on the Kronos (not sure , does the Oasys have one?).
My gut tells me the vocoder is an afterthought on the workstations. Not being a big programmer, I would love it if the Kronos has some nice presets with well-thought-out parameter assaignments on the knobs/sliders. (a little experimentation could take care of this; I am more curious about the overall quality of the sound of the vocoders on workstations compared to Korg's lower-priced synths). |
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jg:: Platinum Member
Joined: 14 Aug 2003 Posts: 685 Location: Melbourne, Australia
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Posted: Tue Feb 08, 2011 1:04 am Post subject: |
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http://howtowreckanicebeach.com/?page_id=14
Vocoder fans might like this story, tracing the vocoder history all the way to the 20s and 30s, I believe. I spied it at my local booshop: How To Wreck A Nice Beach. A picture of the Korg VC10 on the front cover, even!
jg:: |
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McHale Platinum Member
Joined: 10 Feb 2009 Posts: 2487 Location: B.F.E.
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Posted: Tue Feb 08, 2011 2:56 am Post subject: |
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My preference of all the vocoders I have is still the Korg DVP-1. There's a difference between a real vocoder and a vocoder effect. _________________ Current Korg Gear: KRONOS 88 (4GB), M50-73 (PS mod), RADIAS-73, Electribe MX, Triton Pro (MOSS, SCSI, CF, 64MB RAM), SQ-64, DVP-1, MEX-8000, MR-1, KAOSSilator, nanoKey, nanoKontrol, 3x nanoPad 2, 3x DS1H, 7x PS1, FC7 (yes Korg, NOT Yamaha). |
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nowtime Full Member
Joined: 27 Aug 2009 Posts: 216
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Posted: Tue Feb 08, 2011 4:02 am Post subject: |
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Korg DVP-1 - 500 dollars on Ebay. Looks lovely. Would love one someday.
Anyone ever play the R3? |
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ozy Guest
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Posted: Tue Feb 08, 2011 10:36 am Post subject: |
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nowtime wrote: | Korg DVP-1 - 500 dollars on Ebay. Looks lovely. Would love one someday. |
500? steep.
In europe you can get one at 250 top 300 (mint condition) euros.
Considering the smaller european merket and the usual "euro markup", make that 300 us$.
It's worth every penny of it though (but enough with the policy of chasing a piece of vintage at lunatic prices just because it's good. If the hardware is worth 250 it's worth 250, stop. Except for real rarities, unavailable spares and the like, where short supply of course forces the price up. the dvp-1 is NOT in short supply). |
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dokido Full Member
Joined: 19 Jan 2011 Posts: 114
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Posted: Tue Feb 08, 2011 2:30 pm Post subject: |
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I have just tryed the R3 in the shop and the fun thing with it is you can sing with the arpeggiator on with the vocoder. _________________ M50, M3, Radias, Kaossilator Pro, Kaosspad 3, EMX, Microkorg X and Native Instruments and Polar Ti Virus |
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McHale Platinum Member
Joined: 10 Feb 2009 Posts: 2487 Location: B.F.E.
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Posted: Tue Feb 08, 2011 6:22 pm Post subject: |
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nowtime wrote: | Korg DVP-1 - 500 dollars on Ebay. Looks lovely. Would love one someday. |
VERY steep. I had mine for sale on CL for $300 and NOBODY made a serious offer. I had one offer of $50. I think I paid $450 for it about 10 years ago. I would think $350 would be an average price for it if on ebay.
-Mc _________________ Current Korg Gear: KRONOS 88 (4GB), M50-73 (PS mod), RADIAS-73, Electribe MX, Triton Pro (MOSS, SCSI, CF, 64MB RAM), SQ-64, DVP-1, MEX-8000, MR-1, KAOSSilator, nanoKey, nanoKontrol, 3x nanoPad 2, 3x DS1H, 7x PS1, FC7 (yes Korg, NOT Yamaha). |
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axxim Platinum Member
Joined: 17 Sep 2009 Posts: 665 Location: Freiburg/Germany
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Posted: Tue Feb 08, 2011 10:42 pm Post subject: |
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ozy wrote: | nowtime wrote: | Korg DVP-1 - 500 dollars on Ebay. Looks lovely. Would love one someday. |
500? steep.
In europe you can get one at 250 top 300 (mint condition) euros....
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Hmm that is not easy to get such a price here. I just see one now on ebay for 395 EUR. I was chasing one of this for months, agreeing with the policy, a thing is worth what it should be and not more just because it is vintage (I am vintage too) or because it is "en vogue". Finally I switched to look for a Roland VP-770 and got one for a third of its retail price a month ago.
I must say that even if the VP-770 vocoder itself has not the adjustments for each band like the R3dias and most other vocoders, (including my own ATARI-SW-vocoder which even has sepparate attack/decay controls for each band) its speech analysis section is one of the best I have heard. Even if I would welcome an OS update which would enable to tweak the vocoder settings a bit more, it would not be much to improve on it IMHO.
I doubt that the Kronos will have a more featured vocoder than the R3dias or its ancestors, because it is not what the majority wants or needs.
The proof of it is that the majority of the promotion videos for instruments with vocoders have the similar script: "and here is the vocoder -the demonstrator plays a chord and speaks- 1..2..3..vocoder vocoder..." _________________ _/\_><_><_|_//,_
Only a Radias, VP-770, SP-170S and iPad2
http://www.axxim.de/r3dias
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCyi18932rUoHqUTEpsykkIg |
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ozy Guest
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Posted: Wed Feb 09, 2011 9:04 am Post subject: |
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axxim wrote: | the majority of the promotion videos for instruments with vocoders have the similar script: "and here is the vocoder -the demonstrator plays a chord and speaks- 1..2..3..vocoder vocoder..." |
vocoder effects should be banned.
They are a tiresome, overused, misused and boring effect.
Come on, what use is a vocal processing instrument which works only if you modulate it with the following phrases:
"1,2,3" or "let's dance, don't stop the motion" or "this is the vocodaahhh" or "bum bum tcha, bum bum tcha"?
[do people, who obsess with a vocoder's 16, 64 or 128 bands, work on their voice, study what prononouciation does to the sound, know which frequencies are involved, use the saturation of Us and Ps, can distort a sound using Rs? Or do they just use the filter tweaking for removing hisses? -Whose main cause is basically bad quality of the whole vocoder, bad mixing, bad room and bad singing? How many people need 36 bands just because they lack cojones and need to "pump" the bass frequencies their voice hasn't? Just asking]
Ban the vocoders!
Only me, should have one (or more)
As for Dvp-1 and vp770.
Roland vintage vocoders are sweet. I never tested the new ones (especially because I haven't place for one more keyboard).
The "preset" "flaw" belies one important truth: it's very hard to get a vocoder filterbank right, musical.
There are not many settings which sound fine. In the dvp-1 and the rolands those settings have been pre-programmed (they are not the same for each basic preset). And that is good work, why waste it?
"Analogue experimentation" is not equivalent to "obsessive-compulsive recalibration of every single parameter of a machine.
I laugh at somebody who buys a VA for "recreating the sounds of rudess or kraftwerk" (no sonic invention), but then "needs access to every single parameter of the vocoder's filterbank".
To make it "exactly like kraftwerk". Some invention...
Oops, OT.
Whatever.
Stop using your vocoders! Sell them!
To me. |
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axxim Platinum Member
Joined: 17 Sep 2009 Posts: 665 Location: Freiburg/Germany
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Posted: Wed Feb 09, 2011 4:25 pm Post subject: |
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ozy wrote: | ...
Come on, what use is a vocal processing instrument which works only if you modulate it with the following phrases:
"1,2,3" or "let's dance, don't stop the motion" or "this is the vocodaahhh" or "bum bum tcha, bum bum tcha"?
.... |
Well that is exactly the point that gets me upset about this demos. But I think it is something like the Auto-Tune syndrome. _________________ _/\_><_><_|_//,_
Only a Radias, VP-770, SP-170S and iPad2
http://www.axxim.de/r3dias
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCyi18932rUoHqUTEpsykkIg |
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AK-Jake
Joined: 17 Jan 2010 Posts: 32
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Posted: Wed Feb 09, 2011 7:24 pm Post subject: |
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axxim wrote: | Well that is exactly the point that gets me upset about this demos. But I think it is something like the Auto-Tune syndrome. |
Agreed. Autotune to get the "Cher" effect is WAY overused. Hell, would T-Pain even sell records if he turned the Autotune off?
On a side note, does anyone know what vocoder Daft Punk used to make "Harder Better Faster Stronger"? |
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xmlguy Platinum Member
Joined: 26 Nov 2007 Posts: 3605
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Posted: Wed Feb 09, 2011 7:28 pm Post subject: |
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AK-Jake wrote: | axxim wrote: | Well that is exactly the point that gets me upset about this demos. But I think it is something like the Auto-Tune syndrome. |
Agreed. Autotune to get the "Cher" effect is WAY overused. Hell, would T-Pain even sell records if he turned the Autotune off?
On a side note, does anyone know what vocoder Daft Punk used to make "Harder Better Faster Stronger"? |
They didn't use one. They used a talk box. |
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SpIdErWeB Full Member
Joined: 24 Sep 2005 Posts: 209 Location: France
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Posted: Wed Feb 09, 2011 7:37 pm Post subject: |
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Daft Punk didn't use vocoder but Talk Box...
And Auto-tune isn't a Vocoder neither...
Phil |
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xmlguy Platinum Member
Joined: 26 Nov 2007 Posts: 3605
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Posted: Wed Feb 09, 2011 8:24 pm Post subject: |
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SpIdErWeB wrote: | Daft Punk didn't use vocoder but Talk Box...
And Auto-tune isn't a Vocoder neither...
Phil |
At least not on that track. Daft Punk does use a vocoder on other tracks, and I think they use a wide range of vocal processing too. |
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ozy Guest
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Posted: Wed Feb 09, 2011 8:26 pm Post subject: |
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whatever.
vocoders should be banned (only two in the world should remain in effect: mine, and my spare one)
pitch correctors should be illegal
cher should be heavily taxed
talk boxes should be restricted to limited zones of the town with strict sanitary regulations, and only after 10pm
there should be a law against chorus effects
ping pong delays should carry a disclaimer.
As for arpegiators, we should bomb the country where they grow arpegiator poppies, overtrow their medieval regime and instal a puppet government, seize the arpegiator crop and sell it only under medical supervision.
WhaWhas...
... whawhas should be legalized though, in order to make their price fall and cut their mafia middlemen off. This way there would no incentive to push cry babies to innocent children.
jg:: wrote: | http://howtowreckanicebeach.com/?page_id=14Vocoder fans might like this story, tracing the vocoder history all the way to the 20s and 30s, I believe. |
thx jg: really a useful recommendation hope amazon carries it
Last edited by ozy on Wed Feb 09, 2011 10:24 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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