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ozy · Guest

"evil"... ME?

Akos Janca · Posted: Thu Mar 03, 2011 3:55 pm Post subject:

Bertotti · Posted: Thu Mar 03, 2011 5:32 pm Post subject:

That can't be Ozy's baby picture, I mean hey where are the 1.5 octave baby mitts! Laughing

Well that and since you're a few years older then me the picture should be quite sepia like by now, if not a tin type! Laughing

ozy · Guest

ScoobyDoo555 · Posted: Thu Mar 03, 2011 10:12 pm Post subject:

Looks like an Egytian "Jungle Book"....... Laughing

_________________
Yamaha SY77 & KX88, SSL Nucleus, Korg Kronos 61, Wavestation A/D, Access Virus B, Roland XP30, DeepMind12D, System 1m, V-Synth XT, Focusrite Red16Line, Unitor 8, Akai S3000 XL, Alesis Quadraverb+, Focal Shape Twins, Full fat iMac, Logic Pro X, ProTools 2021, loadsa plugins.

ozy · Guest

ScoobyDoo555 · Posted: Fri Mar 04, 2011 9:29 am Post subject:

_________________
Yamaha SY77 & KX88, SSL Nucleus, Korg Kronos 61, Wavestation A/D, Access Virus B, Roland XP30, DeepMind12D, System 1m, V-Synth XT, Focusrite Red16Line, Unitor 8, Akai S3000 XL, Alesis Quadraverb+, Focal Shape Twins, Full fat iMac, Logic Pro X, ProTools 2021, loadsa plugins.

Bertotti · Posted: Fri Mar 04, 2011 12:40 pm Post subject:

I must be lost. I thought that was a pictogram of cave midi.

SpIdErWeB · Posted: Sat Mar 05, 2011 1:22 am Post subject:

danatkorg · Posted: Sat Mar 05, 2011 2:22 am Post subject:

I completely agree that it's possible to hear the difference between 16- and 24-bit audio recordings. The analogy from there, however, is to the *output* of the KRONOS, not to the individual samples.

When we're talking about synths, the sum of all the oscillators ultimately has to be represented at the outputs. Basically, you're just adding numbers together. You can verify the figures below just by continually adding "FFFF" on a Hex calculator (the maximum value for a 16-bit number), and looking at the binary equivalent:

To play two full-scale 16-bit samples without clipping, you need 17 bits of resolution.
To play three or four, you need 18 bits.
five to seven: 19 bits
eight to fifteen: 20 bits
sixteen to thirty-one: 21 bits
32 to 63: 22 bits
64 to 127: 23 bits
128 to 255: 24 bits
...and that leads us to the KRONOS, with 140 voices of HD-1, 180 voices of PolysixEX, 200 voices of CX-3, and 400 mono channels of SGX-1. (Since they're stereo, you only have to sum 200 of them per left/right channel.)

In other words, a 24 bit master output can barely be assured to represent the full polyphony of the HD-1 when using 16-bit samples at full scale. If you had any more bits in the source samples, you'd have to turn them down so that they'd fall off the bottom at the outputs.

Now, in the real world not all of the samples will be at full gain all of the time, so you're likely to have more headroom than the worst case. Panning would also affect volume at the left or right outputs. On the other hand, there are plenty of places that you can add gain beyond that in the sample, including both effects and things with the voice chain itself such as resonant filters, drive and low boost, and EQ. I imagine that there are other factors that I'm not accounting for, in both directions.

So, could you hear the effect of using 24-bit samples instead of 16-bit? I think it would depend on context. If there are only a few voices playing, and they're very loud, and you're not doing much processing to them, then yes, you might. On the other hand, if there are many voices playing, and you're using normal effects and synthesis features, the final 24-bit resolution at output should mean that 16-bit source samples are a pretty good match.
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Dan Phillips
Manager of Product Development, Korg R&D
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Mike Conway · Posted: Sat Mar 05, 2011 2:45 am Post subject:

SpIdErWeB · Posted: Sat Mar 05, 2011 3:12 am Post subject:

Yep Dan,

Great reply. And that's the reason why I think Korg did good choice by having 24 bits audio recording and final output, and keeping 16 bits for Samples. It surely takes less RAM and Disk space and that's still way enough...

Phil

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StephenKay · Posted: Sat Mar 05, 2011 6:40 am Post subject: