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EMX1 Knobs "Null" or "Soft Takeover" set
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cheesebuckle



Joined: 01 Mar 2011
Posts: 7

PostPosted: Tue Mar 01, 2011 9:53 pm    Post subject: EMX1 Knobs "Null" or "Soft Takeover" set Reply with quote

Those are names for knob behaviors that allow 1 knob to control multiple parameters without jumping from one parameter to the next when the knobs function is changed.

This is amazingly useful for live performance to avoid abrasive jumps in effect or synth parameters when a single knob controls multiple functions.

As worded in the SP-808 manual:
JUMP: The instant the Realtime Effects knob is rotated, the setting changes to match the knob's position.
NULL: Even if the knob is rotated, the setting does not change until the current settings value surpasses that of the stored value. After that, the settings change to match the knobs position.

I am not talking about recording a Motion Sequence.
This involves Live Realtime adjustments.

Is there anything like a NULL or "Soft takeover" setting for the knobs behavior of the EMX1 or do I have sloppy abrasive changes to look forward to when using the unite live and switching from one parameter to another where a single knob is involved?

Hoping somebody has an answer!
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defrag



Joined: 15 Sep 2009
Posts: 29
Location: WA

PostPosted: Wed Mar 02, 2011 3:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Moog's Little Phatty has the following which is cool & practical:

SNAP mode, the parameter will ‘snap’ instantaneously to the current
potentiometer setting.

PASS-THRU mode, the parameter value stays constant until the potentiometer passes through the current value.

TRACK mode, the parameter value moves in the same direction as
the knob is rotated (left or right) until the value and knob position are
identical.

Good luck with your EMX answer.
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Aguy



Joined: 22 Nov 2010
Posts: 12

PostPosted: Wed Mar 02, 2011 4:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Didn't know my sp808 could do that Laughing
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cheesebuckle



Joined: 01 Mar 2011
Posts: 7

PostPosted: Wed Mar 02, 2011 4:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

defrag: That's exactly what I'm talking about! How features like this could not be implemented into a piece of gear that touts live performances is beyond me. [provided nobody comes up with an answer]

I was especially hating this lack of a feature last night. Working on a deep ambient sound. Had a solid looped saw in part one, and a looped sine in part two. Dropped the cutoff way low in part one, switched to the sine in part two, which previously had the cutoff a bit high, touched the knob....BAM....sunk to the knob's physical location. Forget doing live ambient with the EMX1 if this can't be sorted.

Aguy: Yeah, once you switch it to NULL mode you'll never go back.
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xmlguy
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Joined: 26 Nov 2007
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 02, 2011 5:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Read the manual section on the recording a motion sequence in smooth mode. Also, hold down the shift key while turning a parameter knob for finer control. Watch the LCD to monitor the parameter value.
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cheesebuckle



Joined: 01 Mar 2011
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 02, 2011 6:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

xmlguy: Sorry if I wasn't clear when I said
"I am not talking about recording a Motion Sequence.
This involves Live Realtime adjustments. " I thought that would hold the answer at one point but I'm concerned about live performance. ^_^

I tried the Shift + Knob combo last night, it did not work.

Again, using the cutoff as an example:
When going from Synth Part 1, cutoff turned hard left, to Synth Part 2, cutoff previously set to high, hard right; as soon as the knob is touched the cutoff JUMPS to that knobs physical location. In this example, hard abrupt jump from high to low. All finesse is lost.

I want to hear no change to a Part's parameter until the knob physically reaches that parameters last location. A "pick up where it left off" feature.

In Traktor it's "Soft Takeover"
Moog's Little Phatty "Pass-Thru"
SP-808 "Null"
EMX.....????

Ill double check the shift+knob again later.
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Aciphecs
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Joined: 16 Aug 2010
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 02, 2011 6:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

There's no such function on the tribes. Would be nice Evil or Very Mad
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xmlguy
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 02, 2011 7:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sorry, I should've read the OP more carefully.

Mute the part. Turn the knob on the parameter you wish quickly from left to right until you see the OrigValue indicator in the LCD. Then unmute the part. You can also set the BussOut to 3/4 to mute the part from the L/R buss, which has the advantage of letting you mute with the big parameter knob with the left hand while tweaking whatever knob you want to set to OrigValue with the right hand. Unmute and the parameter is exactly where you need it for a smooth change.
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cheesebuckle



Joined: 01 Mar 2011
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 02, 2011 7:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Aciphecs: Jerk! Not what I wanted to hear! >=o\

xmlguy: Ill give that a shot once home. Sounds...stressfull. Especially if I need the part to keep looping. I set up multiple parts, each with a single note held over 4 measures, each tied from end to beginning. This creates a continuous tonal chord. Tune each part to a different note. A different wave. And you've got the recipe for some ambient psychedelics when tweaking the cutoff or delays etc. With everything running at once, muting a part in the name of getting the knob to the parameters original value throws off the vibe. Especially if you've got a part thats been marinating the results of a delay over 5min. Sadly, and gratefully, sounds like the best option yet. Thanks.

Is there anyway to get into the brains of this thing and rewrite the knobs behavior ourselves? I'm out of my element when dreaming up things like this, but maybe comparing the midi charts of how this concept is executed in other gear where it IS possible and then replicating it for the knobs on the EMX?

Yeah, feel free to say ,"Dude....no.....just......no"
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xmlguy
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 02, 2011 8:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

If you can live with muting the part, I know that the processes I described work, as I use them frequently myself.

But when I do ambient and chill, I use different gear for the pads. I use the QY100, R3, Z1, TritonExtreme, MPC1000, SP404, SP606, FantomX, X50, KP3, X-Station, Kaossilator, Kaossilator Pro, or a wide range of softsynths, any of which I'd pick over the EMX for that purpose. Even the DS-10+ or iMS-20 apps would be better for that.
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Pastor-of-Muppets
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 02, 2011 8:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

cheesebuckle wrote:
Is there anyway to get into the brains of this thing and rewrite the knobs behavior ourselves? I'm out of my element when dreaming up things like this, but maybe comparing the midi charts of how this concept is executed in other gear where it IS possible and then replicating it for the knobs on the EMX?


it would probably be easier to just plug in an external midi controller, either with separate knobs for each function+part so each one stays where you left it (which would be a lot of knobs!) or have a smarter controller which remembers the last value for each parameter and only sends new data you want it to.

I guess the latter could be achieved either with endless rotary encoders (so turning it clockwise sends whatever the previous value was plus 1) or by having it wait until you turn it past the previous value (which I think is what you're describing on other gear)

I reckon that'd be easier than modding the EMX
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LamptonWorm



Joined: 21 Feb 2011
Posts: 23

PostPosted: Wed Mar 02, 2011 9:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi,

I wonder if this could be an option for the external controller idea..didn't realise you could map out each part individually, cool.

http://www.behringer.com/EN/Products/BCR2000.aspx

Cheers,
LW.
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cheesebuckle



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PostPosted: Wed Mar 02, 2011 9:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

xmlguy: Funny, I'm still using the QY too. It's amazing how much the industry seems to have NOT learned from that thing. From the micro keyboard to how the mute/solo works with the buttons. I wish every L/R function would behave like the QY where when pushed all the way left L/R is random. I've tried a couple apps for PSP that had potential for on the go work...just made me say "If you guys would make a QY-PSP app that would be great!"

Pastor: I'm going to see if the EMX accepts the command from the SP808 knobs when set to NULL mode. If so would that suggest the midi of the EMX could be changed?

The goal is to keep it all in the one machine. For a grab and go piece of gear the EMX has great potential. It's this one lack of a feature where I'm starting to have doubt.
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Pastor-of-Muppets
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 02, 2011 9:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

cheesebuckle wrote:
Pastor: I'm going to see if the EMX accepts the command from the SP808 knobs when set to NULL mode. If so would that suggest the midi of the EMX could be changed?


I don't think it would suggest that at all. the problem is not "the midi" -- the EMX supports the full range of midi values for each parameter (e.g. 0-127)

the problem is that when you turn a knob the EMX receives a signal saying "this pot is now at 50%" which it maps directly to the relevant parameter and changes it immediately ... so it might change it to 63 even if the previous value was 127, so you get a discontinuous jump. that's nothing to do with midi, it's how it responds to the physical position of the pot

other gear has extra code in the firmware so when it gets told the pot is at 50% it goes "ah, but the previous value was 100%, I won't change the actual parameter yet" then it gets told the pot is at 60%, and it still says "yeah, but that's still less than the current value" and so on until the pot actually reaches 100%

to make the EMX do that is nothing to do with midi, you'd have to change the firmware (if my guess of how it works is vaguely correct)

with an external midi controller, the decision of whether to send an updated value when the pot turns is independent of the EMX, which is why I think it could be made to work
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Pastor-of-Muppets
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 02, 2011 9:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

LamptonWorm wrote:
I wonder if this could be an option for the external controller idea..didn't realise you could map out each part individually, cool.


if you can map different knobs and faders to different midi channels, then yeah. make one knob control a parameter on the channel for synth part 1, and another knob control the same param on the channel for synth part 2. I've never tried doing that, I only have a fairly simple midi controller, so maybe I'm talking crap Smile
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