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ozy
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 09, 2011 9:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Nedim,

you are getting a bit one-dimensional (I mean, with the signature and all)...

As soon as your are finished with your new sound bank, you need to... how can I say it...

... take some time for yourself?

... "unwind"?

... get the hell outta that room?
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zahush76
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Joined: 09 Mar 2011
Posts: 98

PostPosted: Sat Mar 12, 2011 2:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

EnjoyRC wrote:
My perspective when reading these threads...

When a company announces a new product, and it's not delivering yet, potential buyers think they can influence the final tweaks prior to release. "Oh, it's not done yet, maybe they can add my most desirable feature".



Hi. I belive it's my first post here.
Anyway, i'm debating with myself between the nord stage 2 and the kronos. I already own a nord stage classic (compact 73 keys).
I'm leaning towards the kronos, but there's one thing that really bothers me that could be a deal breaker.
I'm used to the nord stage's semi weighted action on the 73 keys. I'm not to happy about the thought of playing organ, clav and synth parts on fully weighted action.
On the other hand - i will not buy a 61 key kronos. Sorry, but too short for my needs. So it's sort of a pity that this is the way things are.

So concerning your thoughts about last minute changes - if korg decided on a semiweighted 73 or 76 key version of the kronos on the last minute - than that could probably end my hesitations.
An addition like that doesn't require a drastic change in design or programing. Same sound engine, same controls, same os. Only different actions with 73\76 keys. Is that considered "too much to ask"?
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McHale
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 12, 2011 5:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

zahush76 wrote:
but there's one thing that really bothers me that could be a deal breaker. I'm used to the nord stage's semi weighted action on the 73 keys. I'm not to happy about the thought of playing organ, clav and synth parts on fully weighted action.
On the other hand - i will not buy a 61 key kronos. Sorry, but too short for my needs. So it's sort of a pity that this is the way things are.


You're not alone. I *ONLY* play semi-weighted keys and the RH3 keybed is sluggish and can't keep up with fast playing and it certainly sucks ass for organ playing (or organ smears). I sat down at an M3-88 for a few hours several times and it just can't keep up. I pre-ordered the 88 but I think I'm going to cancel it and keep using my Triton Pro and M50-73 live.

Korg has already stated that they will not make a tabletop version of the Kronos and I doubt they will come out with a 73/76 semi-weighted. So my only hopes is that the Kronos 73 key is a sales failure so the NEXT workstation has semi-weighted keys. Piano keys are for piano playing.
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Randelph
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 12, 2011 7:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

It IS funny to see feature requests on a board that isn't delivered yet, but this is a crucial period. No board, even the Kronos that has the Oayses development advantage, is 100% complete, and it's precisely while there's a buzz about the board that the Korg people who do want to push through OS upgrades will have the most traction.

And considering that MUCH is known about the Kronos already because of the Oayses and M3, there ARE very specific things to talk about that are known issues. NOW IS THE TIME (now and the next year or two) to make these requests. So as regards OS upgrades, I think you're way off the mark.

Hardware wise... well, we can only make our requests and hope. I do think its reasonable to request a semi-weighted 73 key board. There has been a lot of stir on the forums about the desire for lighter weight and semi-weighted action for the 73 note Kronos.

As I see it, the Kronos is going to be a RUNAWAY SMASH SELLER in spite of the tepid world economy, and that gives Korg more options. I do think having a 73 note weighted board is a good idea, but so is a 73 note octave unweighted board.

I think Korg is doing a double-dip: because of the outstanding pianos, eps and organs, they think they'll get the workstation market AND the digital piano market. They're probably right!

Given that every manufacturer comes up with offshoots of their lead technology, I think that Korg would come up with a top seller by:

1. Creating an SV-II that's got most of the guts of the Kronos, but streamlined for performers: mod/pitch on top (to make it shorter), weighted 88 note, semi-weighted 80 note (with the pitch on top, even the 88 note will prob fit in a 76 note gig bag, like my Nord Stage 88 does). 80 notes for the semi-weighted because us piano players want low C!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

or

2. Create an 80 note (low C to high G) semi-weighted "Live" edition of the Kronos with the mod/pitch/SW1&2 on top, and bring it in under 30 pounds. That baby would sell at least as well as the 73 note weighted board.
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EXer
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 12, 2011 7:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Randelph wrote:
I do think its reasonable to request a semi-weighted 73 key board. There has been a lot of stir on the forums about the desire for lighter weight and semi-weighted action for the 73 note Kronos.


No. We want 76 semi-weighted keys (not 73).
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synthguy
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 12, 2011 7:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

McHale (and others), while I'm with you on the semi-weighted thing, and the M3-73 is simply an incredible keyboard (should have been 76, but those are Technics keybeds)... *breath*

There has been quite a hue and cry for 76 note weighted keybeds for years to all the synthmakers. I think KORG noted how well the Yamaha S70 did, although this may well be something particular to the S70, seeing as it's a performance synthesizer, not a workstation. It does seem to me that there are more people bellyaching over the KRONOS 73 than like it, and honestly I'd be tempted to buy a semi-weighted K-73 myself, so I could unload the M3. But I'm biting the bullet and getting the 88, because my brother married a classically trained pianist, and I'm hoping she'll love it so much that she'll be happy to help me with my music. And it's... what, $400 more?

I guess we're stuck.
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McHale
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 12, 2011 8:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm sure there was research behind the decision and it wasn't some arbitrary decision made to specifically screw ME/us over. It just feels that way. Wink However, the VAST majority of synthesizer/workstation buyers are not piano players.

I really really hoped I could adjust to the 88 and I found the issue isn't me or my technique, it's the sluggish RH-3 keybed. I'll be canceling my Kronos 88 order on Monday. Crying or Very sad
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Current Korg Gear: KRONOS 88 (4GB), M50-73 (PS mod), RADIAS-73, Electribe MX, Triton Pro (MOSS, SCSI, CF, 64MB RAM), SQ-64, DVP-1, MEX-8000, MR-1, KAOSSilator, nanoKey, nanoKontrol, 3x nanoPad 2, 3x DS1H, 7x PS1, FC7 (yes Korg, NOT Yamaha).
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ozy
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 12, 2011 8:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

McHale wrote:
I'm sure there was research behind the decision and it wasn't some arbitrary decision made to specifically screw ME/us over.


It was. It was a reprisal.

They read your complaints about the Oasys and decided to cancel the 76 semiweighted model (which was originally planned) with the explicit purpose of boycotting you.

You are underextimating how sensitive and moody a Corporation can be.

Do your kids have a bunny, btw? Careful!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yht6nbQ_xNA
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McHale
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 12, 2011 8:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Nah, I've known some of the guys from Korg for quite a few years. I've never supported a better company. They continually earn my respect and my loyalty. I'm not going to bash them because they didn't contact me for my personal opinion on a HUGE financial decision. That's just delusional. I may contact someone to see what it would take to get a one-off 88 key semi-weighted Kronos though.
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Current Korg Gear: KRONOS 88 (4GB), M50-73 (PS mod), RADIAS-73, Electribe MX, Triton Pro (MOSS, SCSI, CF, 64MB RAM), SQ-64, DVP-1, MEX-8000, MR-1, KAOSSilator, nanoKey, nanoKontrol, 3x nanoPad 2, 3x DS1H, 7x PS1, FC7 (yes Korg, NOT Yamaha).
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DaveBoulden
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 12, 2011 9:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

It must be hard to please all the people all the time. For me it's the other way around. I hve an M3-88 and, personally, I really like the feel of the RH3 keybed. It's just that the thing is so damned heavy once it's in a flightcase. As a gigging musician, a weighted 73-key Kronos is the ideal replacement for my M3-88 and will be far easier to lug around! I always play with 2 keyboards, so the K will be my main lower keyboard and above it will be some sort of 73/76 key synth action board, currently a Roland Fantom X7.
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Randelph
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 12, 2011 10:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Randelph wrote:
Quote:

I do think its reasonable to request a semi-weighted 73 key board. There has been a lot of stir on the forums about the desire for lighter weight and semi-weighted action for the 73 note Kronos.


EXer wrote:
Quote:
No. We want 76 semi-weighted keys (not 73).


Didn't you read my full post? I used 73 keys as an easy reference point to what exists now, but I stated twice that I'd like to see an 80 note semi-weighted board!!!

Lets settle the debate once and for all- those of us that INSIST that we need to go down to at least low C, and those that want more notes on top (which I personally almost never use), an 80 note board is a good solution.

Put the mod/pitch on top, and you still have a board that'll fit in 76 note gig bags. Using the pitch/mod on my Nord Stage, which is on top, is actually easier and better than all the way to the left. And it makes sense for those of us having to fork out a $300-$400 premium over what a 61 note board costs to only get one more octave- that's not fair! If I'm gonna pay that much more, I want my low notes!!! Piano player here.

73/76 note semi-weighted boards help to justify the hefty price of 88 note boards: the 88 note boards do cost more to make, and the chassis has to be larger to accommodate the weighted action, so a price increase is justified; but putting the 73/76 note boards at the mid-price point btw 61 and 88 note boards (esp. if we're talking semi-weighted here) ISN'T FAIR!

Of course knowing these things for sure is next to impossible without inside industry knowledge; there could be substantial costs involved just in making a board available that doesn't sell as well as the 61 and 88 note boards; any insights here?
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cello
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 12, 2011 11:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

God this is the most boring thread ever.

Who cares what size it is - I'm assuming you've all left playground age.

Randelph wrote:
I want my low notes!!! Piano player here.


Since when (exactly) was a pianist more concerned with low notes? You played Chopin? Beethoven? Shostakovich? Ravel? Mozart? Britten? Part?

If you have you will know that they use the full range of what they had available (that means high as well).

I am a pianist too. It neither bothers me what the range of the board is nor what the action is. Like driving a car, you adjust to how it wants to be driven. Full stop. Period. Any trained pianist can do this.

And, hello, you can use switches to change the range of the keyboard... so the 61 can do 88, you just have to plan it. I accept that this is more of a burden for live players - I don't play live; but I do know that SW1/SW2 can throw the keyboard down/up respectively. Hitting one incey little button can't be that difficult surely?

It's like everyone is getting into thermo-dynamic physics. Huge theory about keys, polyphony, sample rates, outputs/inputs, voicings per engine, effects routing, wave forms, velocity curves, etc, etc OMG - deeply boring.

And then they say they just want a good piano. WAKEY, WAKEY! A piano has none of these things - it just has strings, hammers, dampers, keys and pedals. That's it. No ADSR. That comes from the human touching it.

So. To conclude. The K is a fine and monumental instrument that can do more than you can dream. I know this for a fact because I use an O88. Yes, my O has fancy RH2. Whoopido - don't care. And my T3ex 61 doesn't - Oh, no disaster! NOT. I play the O and the T3 (or the Radias) together all the time one hand on each. Am I restricted in any way? No. Do I collapse and die because they're different actions? Em, no.
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McHale
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 13, 2011 12:07 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

cello wrote:
Am I restricted in any way? No. Do I collapse and die because they're different actions? Em, no.


My 5 year old neice isn't restricted in any way either. Your point is *YOU* aren't restricted. Some of us are. The RH3 is great keybed if you play straight piano pieces and minor or slow solos. But Billy Joel could never use it for some of his songs because the RH3 is sluggish and slow compared to a real piano and I can't use it for some of the things I do on organ and it certainly can't react fast enough to do some of the leads I do. If I were to buy anything with an RH3 keybed on it, I'd have to stop playing some of the songs I play. For example, Billy Joel's “Angry Young Man” and “Scenes From an Italian Restaurant” are impossible to play because of the limitations of the keybed.

So the fact that you can use any keybed for the stuff you play (not an insult to you or anyone), great. Some of us can't. It's a big deal.
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Bertotti
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 13, 2011 12:41 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ok not trying to be a smart alec or anything but I am curious, if the RH3 is so slow does that mean Jordan Rudess is slowing down his playing to make it work for him? I think that guy hauls butt normally. I mean this as an actual question!
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McHale
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 13, 2011 12:48 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

He uses an OASYS which has RH2 and his Kurz.

BUT, he has his own style, one of which is not even close to Billy Joel. He also isn't a big organ player so you'll see him do a gliss, but never back and forth palm smears (ala Boston).

Like I said, what you play and how you play it is key. If you're playing Chopin, you're fine. If you're playing Billy Joel and Boston, not fine.

EDIT: Did a quick Google search for Keyboard Magazine's thoughts on the RH3 keybed: http://www.keyboardmag.com/article/korg-sv-1-/November-2009/103427

Quote:
Both SV-1 models use Korg’s RH3 weighted action. The feel is substantial, with a nice amount of resistance, and provides a decent dynamic response (each preset can have one of seven velocity curves, plus there’s a fixed velocity setting well-suited to organs). It’s graded, which means that lower notes have more resistance than the higher notes. It feels great, but didn’t quite ace my “Billy Joel test,” in which fast sixteenth-notes are played machinegun style on the same key, the way Billy does in “Angry Young Man” and “Scenes From an Italian Restaurant.” The keys didn’t quite yield the rapid-fire repetition that can be achieved on a real grand or high-end digital piano.


Quote:
CONS

No aftertouch. Keyboard action doesn’t return quickly enough for rapid-fire repetition. Headphone jack placement leaves connectors vulnerable to breakage if bumped.

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