Korg Forums

Bertotti · Posted: Sun Mar 13, 2011 2:09 am Post subject:

I got ya! Thanks! I'm going to google and see if I can find the referenced vids on youtube so I can get a better idea of it all. I have been tossed up on the 61 or 88 key bed so we will se where this leads me.

Just curious but does the 61 respond faster?

peter_schwartz · Full Member Joined: 14 Jan 2011 Posts: 206

I'd say that depends entirely on your technique and your touch. Surely, non-weighted keys have less mass and less physical impedance and therefore they may enable certain players the ability to play faster than on non-weighted keys. But if you consider that both jazz and classical pianists can often play blazingly fast on real pianos then surely speed is not an inherent issue with "weighted actions". And at that, some piano actions are notoriously stiff but it doesn't seem to hold many players back from playing fluently or rapidly.

I think the feel of a keyboard is purely a personal choice based, as I said, on technique and touch. It's not the kind of thing that you can get an internet recommendation as to whether or not weighted/non-weighted is good or bad.

McHale · Posted: Sun Mar 13, 2011 4:53 am Post subject:

It's not simply a matter of personal taste when there's a physical limitation of key up response. THAT'S what's killing me on the RH3.

You'll never see a jazz pianist play like Jerry Lee Lewis. The RH3 keybed vs. a real grand piano weighted keybed are not similar at all. I would sarcastically equate the RH3 to playing a grand piano if it was submerged in oatmeal. It's noticeably sluggish.

So now lets quit talking about piano playing and move on to organ playing.

Do you think a jazz organist could play their fast runs and up/down palm smears on the RH3 keybed? Not a chance in hell. You'll never see this on an RH3:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2IZ_PYg8XRU

Now when it comes to fast synth leads, same problem.
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Current Korg Gear: KRONOS 88 (4GB), M50-73 (PS mod), RADIAS-73, Electribe MX, Triton Pro (MOSS, SCSI, CF, 64MB RAM), SQ-64, DVP-1, MEX-8000, MR-1, KAOSSilator, nanoKey, nanoKontrol, 3x nanoPad 2, 3x DS1H, 7x PS1, FC7 (yes Korg, NOT Yamaha).

zahush76 · Junior Member Joined: 09 Mar 2011 Posts: 98

The only "way out" for me, maybe, is if i get a 73 kronos and midi it to my polyevolver keyboard. Great semi-weighted action.
Problem is that the PEK isn't exactly a dedicated midi controller. That might work for live gigs from time to time.
But it's gonna be a problem bringing two boards to rehersals instead of one. That part is what makes my nord stage compact so comfortable.

Also, it would prevent my polyevolver from being a dedicated synth. If i'd want to play organ with my left hand and a synth solo with my right - that would be very limited on one 61 key board.

McHale · Posted: Sun Mar 13, 2011 5:56 am Post subject:

Yep, because of the key combinations, none of the three offerings work for me. I can't justify buying any of those just to control it with a mediocre keyboard controller.

I'm really hoping that when sales slow down they give additional consideration to a 76 (or sigh... 73) key semi-weighted version. And if nothing else, release a module only (remember the Komponent system?!?)

-sigh-

sad day indeed...
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Current Korg Gear: KRONOS 88 (4GB), M50-73 (PS mod), RADIAS-73, Electribe MX, Triton Pro (MOSS, SCSI, CF, 64MB RAM), SQ-64, DVP-1, MEX-8000, MR-1, KAOSSilator, nanoKey, nanoKontrol, 3x nanoPad 2, 3x DS1H, 7x PS1, FC7 (yes Korg, NOT Yamaha).

jimknopf · Platinum Member Joined: 17 Jan 2011 Posts: 3374

There must be some kind of economic reasoning behind the present key versions (like having to get rid of M3 RH3 keybeds or the like).

Else, the decision to offer only a 61 version with synth action makes no real sense. There are too many people out therewho want synth action, but with more than 61 keys, that they would miss a lot of potential buyers in the long run IMHO.

I guess that they will start as announced, and after they have sold enough RH3 keybeds for whatever reason, they might offer a new synth action alternative to reach more potential buyers.

Remember one thing though: on all major workstations, the middle version which we 73/76 players prefer by far, is sold much less than the 61 and the 88.

ozy · Guest

Bertotti · Posted: Sun Mar 13, 2011 1:20 pm Post subject:

Truth is where I live it will be a miracle to find an RH3 key bed to try, so I have to rely on others opinions and take it from there. I am considering it because I thought it would respond quickly. I was considering the 88 because I was hoping to learn to play with both hands much better then I can now. I can go with the 61 and find a used grand around here for 1-2K. I don't mind old pianos! I prefer them! Truth is the little phatty keeps calling me and with the 61 it would give me plenty of keys to work both hands!

Now on the other hand I fix things for a living, big small, electronic electrical, mechanical, pneumatic, hydraulic etc.. I can't help but wonder if I couldn't mod the RH3 to respond the way I want. There in lies the eternal problem with some one who loves to tweak gear!

edit to add, for every less then stellar review I find a good one. Here is an excerpt from one example and this naturally is what makes ti so hard to decide, yes i know I need to play one but to do so I need to find one!

"I suspect you’re probably wanting to know how the LP350 sounds and feels. In general: pretty good. The RH3 hammer action key-bed is employed to great effect and provides a subtle gradient of weight from the heavy low keys to lighter high ones. Rapid, repeated strikes are registered flawlessly to the best of my ability to test. This is my first encounter with Korg’s RH3 bed, and I must say that I’m impressed, though coming from an un-weighted or semi-weighted keyboard background I’m unable to accurately comment on the accuracy of its emulation."

I am afraid in the end it will be a leap of faith!

jimknopf · Platinum Member Joined: 17 Jan 2011 Posts: 3374

I went another time to the Music Store Cologne to have a thorough test of Korg keybeds.

The RH3 hammer action is ok. It is neither sluggish nor especially fast retriggering. But it has a nice velocity response (a bit easier in the high ranges).
I prefer it to the synth action keybed of the M3 (identical to Kronos 61, as far as I know). The latter offers some resistance and does not feel too cheap, but it also does not feel as clear defined as my nice Access Virus TI keybed.

Both keybeds are well playable, though not what I would call brllant, so you don't have to worry to run into major problems either way.

I opt for the RH, at the price of lacking fast synth action, because I feel I get significantly better dynamic playing control with multi-velocity instruments with it, not only concerning pianos, epianos and natural instruments, but also velocity sensitive synth sounds. The downside in this case are certain organ playing techniques hardly possible with the RH3 keybed.

McHale · Posted: Sun Mar 13, 2011 3:32 pm Post subject:

Agreed, even KORG proves that the RH3 is best for piano but crap for true organ playing:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UbXsxAeOctg
_________________
Current Korg Gear: KRONOS 88 (4GB), M50-73 (PS mod), RADIAS-73, Electribe MX, Triton Pro (MOSS, SCSI, CF, 64MB RAM), SQ-64, DVP-1, MEX-8000, MR-1, KAOSSilator, nanoKey, nanoKontrol, 3x nanoPad 2, 3x DS1H, 7x PS1, FC7 (yes Korg, NOT Yamaha).

peter_schwartz · Full Member Joined: 14 Jan 2011 Posts: 206

Bertotti · Posted: Sun Mar 13, 2011 5:42 pm Post subject:

Only one answer for me. 88 key Kronos and Nord C2 organ and a Little Phatty just because I love it. I guess I'll have to get a second job or find some rich old ladies who want to see a pot bellied, balding 45 year old strip! Wink

ozy · Guest

synthguy · Platinum Member Joined: 05 Jan 2005 Posts: 661

This is an interesting topic. My brother's Japanese wife, who is a classically trained pianist, preferred the RH3 keybed over all the other keyboards at Guitar Center, even some nice dedicated electronic pianos. I'm intending to get the K-88 and keeping my M3-73 to drive it, because I like the 73 note keybed very much. Interestingly, so does she.
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Akos Janca · Posted: Mon Mar 14, 2011 9:30 pm Post subject:

Just a note: I tried Billy Joel's Angry Young Man (see this video at 1:16) on OASYS88. The RH2 keys are definitely NOT fast enough for that. (Not even for this slower version.)

The mentioned Brian Auger lick could be played on RH2, but first it's difficult and tiring for the unpracticed hand.

Both of them are quite "extreme" examples anyway - at least for me. I haven't tried them on RH3 - but as an RH2 player I also enjoyed the SV-1 very much. McHale, if the RH3 is not suitable for you, then I think you could solve the problem with an external controller.
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