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dimitris
Platinum Member
Joined: 31 Jul 2002
Posts: 1661
Location: Greece
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 Posted: Thu Mar 17, 2011 2:33 pm Post subject: Time for KRONOS 2!! |
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After all these topics for KRONOS i think it's time for a new KORG Workstation! I feel like I own KRONOS for a year!! The same feeling goes for PA3X!! 
Regards,
Dimitris
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KORG PA5X 76 + PaAS - KORG PA1000 (NEW) -KORG NAUTILUS 73 (NEW) - KORG EK-50 - KAWAI VPC1 |
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EXer
Platinum Member
Joined: 17 Jan 2011
Posts: 558
Location: France
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| Posted: Thu Mar 17, 2011 3:31 pm Post subject: |
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Despite the smileys in your post I would like to take it seriously  .
I believe the Kronos is only a transition keyboard for Korg.
Before the Motif came out you could see Trinitys (Trinities?) and eventually Tritons on every stage and on every set. Then the Motif took over. The M3 had not the same commercial success as its predecessors (which is not a surprise: a high end Korg workstation should definitely look like a Trinity, not like a cheap home arranger kb). Korg had to react, and they did by putting their best *available* technology (Oasys) in a more affordable package and by adding the enhancements that the advances in technology allowed them to add (SSD).
But there are limitations, e.g. no streaming of user samples, need for preloading a part of the 'ROM' and EXs samples into RAM before being able to use them... Right now SSD is still in its infancy, and I bet there will soon exist bigger, faster and cheaper SSDs that would allow to overcome these limitations.
Anyway, I believe Korg are on the right way:
1. the Clavia Nord Wave/Piano/Stage, the Korg Oasys/Kronos and to a certain extend the Motif XF show that the rompler (in the sense of an instrument where the factory samples are burnt into actual ROM chips, not in the sense of a sample based synth) has come to an end.
2. a multi synthesis instrument is far more versatile than a pure sampled based instrument. I hope that Yamaha will issue an EX5 II ; after all they have proven they can master several types of syntheses (AN, VL, FM, FS, FDSP) and that they can integrate them in a single instrument (EX5). And after that Korg will have to issue a Kronos 2...
And now it's time to add a smiley  |
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Synthoid
Platinum Member
Joined: 17 Mar 2003
Posts: 3300
Location: PA, USA
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| Posted: Thu Mar 17, 2011 3:39 pm Post subject: |
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| EXer wrote: | | I hope that Yamaha will issue an EX5 II ; after all they have proven they that can master several types of syntheses (AN, VL, FM, FS, FDSP) and that they can integrate them in a single instrument |
Possible, but Yamaha has been "sitting on their hands" for a long time... they are quite happy with the success of the Motif series.
I'd be surprised if they release something like you describe, although with KARMA becoming available for the Motif series (via software), it would be interesting to see Yamaha introduce a professional. multi-synthesis engine keyboard with KARMA at next year's NAMM show.
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M3, Triton Classic, Radias, Motif XS, Alesis Ion |
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Jan1
Platinum Member
Joined: 16 Mar 2005
Posts: 765
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| Posted: Thu Mar 17, 2011 5:37 pm Post subject: |
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| EXer wrote: | | I believe the Kronos is only a transition keyboard for Korg. |
Well, that's the nature of the beast, isn't it?
A platform which evolves and is further developed through various hardware incarnations incorporating more powerful processors to meet the requirements of the next phase of the concept. |
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Hugo
Platinum Member
Joined: 23 Jun 2006
Posts: 809
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| Posted: Thu Mar 17, 2011 9:46 pm Post subject: |
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| I think Yamaha (and Roland, for that matter), have no choice but to follow up in the footsteps of the Kronos. Korg definately haver the edge now, and no rompler will be able to compete with it, in my view. |
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Kevin Nolan
Approved Merchant
Joined: 04 Dec 2005
Posts: 2524
Location: Dublin, Ireland
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| Posted: Thu Mar 17, 2011 10:09 pm Post subject: |
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Yamaha already made that choice - a long time ago. They are not involved in the synthesizer business any more. Their synthesis expertise of the 70s/80s/90s is long since gone - those engineers have all retired or moved on. They literally do not have synthesis expertise in house.
Motif is a very simple instrument - nothing more than sampling. It seems to be popular (why I cannot comprehend), but there is no chance of Yamaha entering the workstation arena as you propose. |
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Synthoid
Platinum Member
Joined: 17 Mar 2003
Posts: 3300
Location: PA, USA
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| Posted: Thu Mar 17, 2011 10:20 pm Post subject: |
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| Kevin Nolan wrote: | | there is no chance of Yamaha entering the workstation arena as you propose. |
Let's wait and see before passing judgment...
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M3, Triton Classic, Radias, Motif XS, Alesis Ion |
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billysynth1
Platinum Member
Joined: 22 Jan 2005
Posts: 1148
Location: Australia/Melbourne
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| Posted: Thu Mar 17, 2011 10:25 pm Post subject: |
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Its popular because all the old school lads, like chick corea, for example, just buy the thing because of the label: YAMAHA. I went to Mr Corea's Return to Forever concert last month and he had two XFs on stage. Basically he used the electric piano sound from it all night and that was it. He didnt have his Rhodes on stage so the XFs substituted for it.
Also, i think because of Yamaha's 100yr history of providing musical instruments people might have a greater trust for thier instruments including synths - ?
Billy
_________________
Yamaha C1 Grand Piano.
Korg Oasys 88, Jupiter 80
Kronos 88, V Synth GT
I am a student of classical piano...I am not a classical pianist. |
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jimknopf
Platinum Member
Joined: 17 Jan 2011
Posts: 3374
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| Posted: Thu Mar 17, 2011 10:32 pm Post subject: |
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Chick had the same equipment on his Five Peace Band tour.
He played great, but the Rhodes sound coming from his Motifs was one of the most penetrant and crappy Rhodes sounds I have ever heard live. It was obvious that the only criterium had been to cut through, and that's what it did up to pain level. |
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Akos Janca
Platinum Member
Joined: 16 Mar 2005
Posts: 1158
Location: Budapest, Hungary
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| Posted: Thu Mar 17, 2011 11:32 pm Post subject: |
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| billysynth1 wrote: | | Its popular because all the old school lads, like chick corea, for example, just buy the thing because of the label: YAMAHA. |
If people continuously buy anything just because of the label then I think there must be only one good reason for that: it's well-known and trusty.
It's not easy to achieve this status for the manufacturers. It's a continuous race between them. Yamaha is one of the biggest.
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AkosJanca.com | Facebook | YouTube | SoundCloud | FuturePlant || OASYS-demos | nanoROCK demo | Korg Band in the Garage demo | Kronos Demo 1 | Kronos Demo 2 |
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Kevin Nolan
Approved Merchant
Joined: 04 Dec 2005
Posts: 2524
Location: Dublin, Ireland
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| Posted: Fri Mar 18, 2011 12:05 am Post subject: |
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| As already indicated - Yamaha have well and truly bowed out of the synthesizer business except for Motif. Beyond that, they literally have no intent, for the foreseeable future, of developing synthesizer technology. There's nothing on the radar, there's no division developing synthesis technology in Yamaha, they have no engineers on the job - any who were there are retired. Don't hold you breadth. |
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Randelph
Platinum Member
Joined: 18 Oct 2008
Posts: 604
Location: San Francisco, CA
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| Posted: Fri Mar 18, 2011 6:50 pm Post subject: |
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| Kevin Nolan wrote: | | As already indicated - Yamaha have well and truly bowed out of the synthesizer business except for Motif. Beyond that, they literally have no intent, for the foreseeable future, of developing synthesizer technology. There's nothing on the radar, there's no division developing synthesis technology in Yamaha, they have no engineers on the job - any who were there are retired. Don't hold you breadth. |
That's interesting to hear- where did you get this info?
From my un-informed point of view, it's hard to imagine Yamaha letting Korg run away with the top workstation bragging rights. They've got too much invested in many, many aspects of the pro market to be seen as lesser than anyone else.
My guess is that the next gen w/s from them will not be another Motif- that's run its course. It doesn't seem that far fetched to imagine that more Kronos-like boards will spring up: the technology is finally there to support it at a reasonable cost.
The headstart Korg has with all the developed engines could be offset by Yamaha publishing their streaming-from-SSD specs, as well as a VST like standard so that 3d parties could develop for them (and they could still collect licensing fees).
What's interesting here too is that the Motif XS and XF ARE running on Linux (the OS was ported to Linux after the ES), though I have no idea if that helps them in the transition to do something similar to the Kronos.
As I see it, Yamaha is primarily a broad market consumer based company (their PSRs, Tyros, Clavinovas, home piano market, etc.), and this showed with their Motif line.
After suffering with the XS for several years, I finally came to the conclusion that, like the arrangers, they knew how to do a many-buttoned user interface that was user-friendly on the top layer, but beneath that layer was an endless series of workarounds designed by engineers, not musicians, oftentimes as an afterthought to add features.
I hated that board after awhile (which was partly my fault and inexperience: I was trying to do things with it that, had I known, I wouldn't have wasted months of my life dealing with the horrible handling of sample and file management and used it for what it is good for).
I for one am not holding my breath- Yamaha is good at the home consumer market with their keyboards, and many of their digital pianos are excellent- but their pro w/s stuff is just not a portion of the market they seem to be aiming for based on my experience and what i've seen. My M3 seems like it was designed by and for musicians, a very different experience.
But who am I to say- the general consensus puts the XS/XF on top in terms of numbers sold and people who prefer the sound overall (esp as regards acoustic or natural sounds). I disagree- I like the playability and overall sounds of the M3 better than the XS, but I guess I'm in the minority.
Part of my interest in the Kronos is being glad to see Yamaha put in their place! The XS/XF is nothing special- no more glorified romplers!!!!! Long live the Kronos- and all the fantastic engines and streaming workstations that it inspires!
Last edited by Randelph on Fri Mar 18, 2011 6:58 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Synthoid
Platinum Member
Joined: 17 Mar 2003
Posts: 3300
Location: PA, USA
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| Posted: Fri Mar 18, 2011 6:57 pm Post subject: |
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| Randelph wrote: | | After suffering with the XS for several years |
I'm still learning the XS... often an annoying experience.
| Randelph wrote: | | I hated that board after awhile (which was partly my fault and inexperience: I was trying to do things with it that, had I known, I wouldn't have wasted months of my life dealing with the horrible handling of sample and file management and used it for what it is good for). |
I don't use mine for sampling, but yeah... the file management leaves a lot to be desired.
| Randelph wrote: | | My M3 seems like it was designed by and for musicians, a very different experience. |
Much more fun to play and program!
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M3, Triton Classic, Radias, Motif XS, Alesis Ion |
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Randelph
Platinum Member
Joined: 18 Oct 2008
Posts: 604
Location: San Francisco, CA
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| Posted: Fri Mar 18, 2011 7:06 pm Post subject: |
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Randelph wrote:
| Quote: | | I hated that board after awhile (which was partly my fault and inexperience: I was trying to do things with it that, had I known, I wouldn't have wasted months of my life dealing with the horrible handling of sample and file management and used it for what it is good for). |
Synthoid wrote:
| Quote: | | I don't use mine for sampling, but yeah... the file management leaves a lot to be desired. |
Actually, I didn't either. I meant the XPansion samples. After they released the free XPansions, I was trying to create smaller bundles of just the samples and patches I wanted for faster load times, and it just wasn't possible without ridiculous workarounds. I believe they've fixed some of this now- there's a sample editor now, right? And John Melas added a Sample Editor to his programs. But there are many more examples of a system that was designed by engineers, not musician-engineers. |
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billysynth1
Platinum Member
Joined: 22 Jan 2005
Posts: 1148
Location: Australia/Melbourne
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| Posted: Fri Mar 18, 2011 9:45 pm Post subject: |
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Kevin wrote
| Quote: | | There's nothing on the radar, there's no division developing synthesis technology in Yamaha, they have no engineers on the job - any who were there are retired. Don't hold you breadth. |
Hi Kev,
What do you mean by 'nothing on the radar' you mean the Google Radar?
Or do you have some inside Yamaha Radar info
Anyway, they struck up a deal with Stephen Kay, now Yamaha have KARMA technology available for the XF and beyond, well its not built in...yet. This seems to imply that they have not abandoned anything yet -?
Regards
Billy
_________________
Yamaha C1 Grand Piano.
Korg Oasys 88, Jupiter 80
Kronos 88, V Synth GT
I am a student of classical piano...I am not a classical pianist. |
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