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zahush76
Junior Member
Joined: 09 Mar 2011
Posts: 98
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 Posted: Sun Mar 20, 2011 3:16 pm Post subject: |
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| MartinHines wrote: | | Even if they "opened" SSD disk streaming, it would probably still be controlled by Korg, meaning they would test the library before it was made available. |
But the EXs3 that is already on the kronos is a karo library.
So what's so difficult about allowing any karo library to work the same way? |
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Sharp
Site Admin
Joined: 02 Jan 2002
Posts: 18197
Location: Ireland
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| Posted: Sun Mar 20, 2011 4:21 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | But the EXs3 that is already on the kronos is a karo library. |
I've no idea where you heard that from but it's not true. KORG don't use any samples from KARO. The only reason why KARO have it mentioned on their sound lists is because you must purchase the KORG library first other wise the KARO programs that use samples from the KORG library won't work.
Regards
Sharp.
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Lando
Full Member
Joined: 08 Feb 2011
Posts: 100
Location: Stockholm, Sweden
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| Posted: Sun Mar 20, 2011 4:42 pm Post subject: |
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I belive what MartinHines wrote is very likely, it's about quality control.
Let's hope they let Karo stream their stuff asap, or even better, update the OS to allow 4 GB RAM. |
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zahush76
Junior Member
Joined: 09 Mar 2011
Posts: 98
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| Posted: Sun Mar 20, 2011 5:43 pm Post subject: |
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| Sharp wrote: | | Quote: | | But the EXs3 that is already on the kronos is a karo library. |
I've no idea where you heard that from but it's not true. KORG don't use any samples from KARO. The only reason why KARO have it mentioned on their sound lists is because you must purchase the KORG library first other wise the KARO programs that use samples from the KORG library won't work.
Regards
Sharp. |
I'll tell you where i got this idea from - and you'll tell me what you think.
Ok, here it goes:
Go to the karo website - and search for the libraries for the oasys (which, btw, they claim will be available for the kronos).
Search for the "KSL Symphonic Library".
Once you get there - please scroll down to the products info pdf.
In the pdf you'll find, among other things, a large list of sounds and patches included in the ksl symphonic library.
There you'll clearly see that two of the libraries (program bank user-c, and program bank user-d), where all the sounds names end with "EXs3". All the other sounds on that library do not have a special ending to their name.
And behold, what a surprise: all of these sounds are brass & wind instrument.
In the meantime, it says on the kronos product page that the kronos comes with sound expansions - one of them being "EXs3 - brass & wind".
A coincidence maybe?
Maybe a violation of copyright?
You tell me. |
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burningbusch
Approved Merchant
Joined: 30 Jan 2005
Posts: 1203
Location: Seattle
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| Posted: Sun Mar 20, 2011 5:45 pm Post subject: |
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A) What Martin posted is spot on.
B) If you read through this thread you certainly get a different impression with regards to streaming from Kurt at Karo with the winks, ideas, etc. The company line is what is posted in the email. I think it's too early to tell how it's going to work with Kronos as those products haven't been released.
http://www.korgforums.com/forum/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=58844&start=17
C) The Karo Philharmonic Strings library contains a lot of articulations. I don't know how realistic it would be to expect to use all them live, so why have them loaded. Generally, you'll want one good sustain and possibly another articulation. Articulations that I can see from the Philharmonic Strings include:
Marcato
Arco
Legato
Emotional (sustain?)
Classic (sustain?)
Hollywood (sustain?)
Orchestra (sustain?)
Sordino
Solo
Spiccato
Pizzicato
Tremolo
Plus Tympani and a bunch of pads.
It's possible that some of the sustain programs use the same sample base.
Even as it stands without streaming, I would think that by not loading one piano and/or the drums you would have room for a good selection of high quality strings.
Busch. |
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zahush76
Junior Member
Joined: 09 Mar 2011
Posts: 98
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| Posted: Sun Mar 20, 2011 6:00 pm Post subject: |
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| burningbusch wrote: | | C) The Karo Philharmonic Strings library... |
Actually, i was reffering to the KSL library. Not the KSP library.
When i asked kurt of karo if there's an overlap in the strings sound, he replied:
| Quote: | | No... the KSL are totaly different! Much better sounding and a lot of more samples... |
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Citizen Klaus
Full Member
Joined: 23 Jul 2009
Posts: 171
Location: Bloomington, IN
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| Posted: Sun Mar 20, 2011 6:27 pm Post subject: |
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| zahush76 wrote: | A coincidence maybe?
Maybe a violation of copyright?
You tell me. |
Two points:
First off, as the PDF sound list notes, those are combis, not programs.
Second, note the description for the KSB sound pack:
| Quote: | The Combi sounds are being formed by our KPS Strings
and the Korg Brass & Woodwinds and provide quality for the OASYS. |
(My emphasis.)
Most reasonable conclusion: Karo, in their combis, borrow some programs from the Korg factory sound banks (that use Korg-developed samples, including those of the EXs3 expansion), not the other way around.
Last edited by Citizen Klaus on Sun Mar 20, 2011 6:41 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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burningbusch
Approved Merchant
Joined: 30 Jan 2005
Posts: 1203
Location: Seattle
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| Posted: Sun Mar 20, 2011 6:28 pm Post subject: |
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Karo's User Bank C matches exactly to Korg's User Bank G for the EX3 library.
If I understand you correctly you're under the impression that KSL includes new brass and wind (or the EX3 samples) in addition to strings. I believe it is largely strings. As KSL is 850MB and EX3 is 850MB, it doesn't add up. If you look at the credits in the PDF you see they only refer to string recording.
It is common practice for Korg to include EX sample library in the name so that it's clear to the player that it won't sound right (or at all) if the samples aren't loaded.
My guess is that Karo included the EX3 program banks so that any OASYS user who is primarily doing orchestral work would have the full orchestra at their ready.
As I don't own either an OASYS or any Karo libraries, I'm just guessing.
Busch. |
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cello
Platinum Member
Joined: 11 Jun 2009
Posts: 2152
Location: Glasgow, UK
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| Posted: Sun Mar 20, 2011 6:30 pm Post subject: |
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| zahush76 wrote: | | Sharp wrote: | | Quote: | | But the EXs3 that is already on the kronos is a karo library. |
I've no idea where you heard that from but it's not true. KORG don't use any samples from KARO. The only reason why KARO have it mentioned on their sound lists is because you must purchase the KORG library first other wise the KARO programs that use samples from the KORG library won't work.
Regards
Sharp. |
I'll tell you where i got this idea from - and you'll tell me what you think.
Ok, here it goes:
Go to the karo website - and search for the libraries for the oasys (which, btw, they claim will be available for the kronos).
Search for the "KSL Symphonic Library".
Once you get there - please scroll down to the products info pdf.
In the pdf you'll find, among other things, a large list of sounds and patches included in the ksl symphonic library.
There you'll clearly see that two of the libraries (program bank user-c, and program bank user-d), where all the sounds names end with "EXs3". All the other sounds on that library do not have a special ending to their name.
And behold, what a surprise: all of these sounds are brass & wind instrument.
In the meantime, it says on the kronos product page that the kronos comes with sound expansions - one of them being "EXs3 - brass & wind".
A coincidence maybe?
Maybe a violation of copyright?
You tell me. |
Whilst you're right about what you say, I have to correct you on your conclusion.
Karo's reference to EXs3 in their sound names simply means that it uses EXs3 sounds which were originally released for the OASYS by Korg (a CD-based update). It does not infringe copyright at all otherwise I think Korg would've done something about it long ago!
So basically what the reference means is that you must have EXs3 installed otherwise the Karo sound will not be as expected.
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zahush76
Junior Member
Joined: 09 Mar 2011
Posts: 98
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| Posted: Sun Mar 20, 2011 7:00 pm Post subject: |
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| Citizen Klaus wrote: | | Most reasonable conclusion: Karo, in their combis, borrow some programs from the Korg factory sound banks (that use Korg-developed samples, including those of the EXs3 expansion), not the other way around. |
So what that means, basically, is that if you have a kronos and you decide to buy the ksl library from karo - you'll be paying also for some sounds you already have? |
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Citizen Klaus
Full Member
Joined: 23 Jul 2009
Posts: 171
Location: Bloomington, IN
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| Posted: Sun Mar 20, 2011 7:04 pm Post subject: |
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| zahush76 wrote: | | Citizen Klaus wrote: | | Most reasonable conclusion: Karo, in their combis, borrow some programs from the Korg factory sound banks (that use Korg-developed samples, including those of the EXs3 expansion), not the other way around. |
So what that means, basically, is that if you have a kronos and you decide to buy the ksl library from karo - you'll be paying also for some sounds you already have? |
No, because those programs should already exist on your Kronos. You're paying, at least in part, for KARO's expertise in integrating those factory programs into their own combis. |
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Lando
Full Member
Joined: 08 Feb 2011
Posts: 100
Location: Stockholm, Sweden
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| Posted: Sun Mar 20, 2011 9:45 pm Post subject: |
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| burningbusch wrote: |
C) The Karo Philharmonic Strings library contains a lot of articulations. I don't know how realistic it would be to expect to use all them live, so why have them loaded. Generally, you'll want one good sustain and possibly another articulation. Articulations that I can see from the Philharmonic Strings include:
Marcato
Arco
Legato
Emotional (sustain?)
Classic (sustain?)
Hollywood (sustain?)
Orchestra (sustain?)
Sordino
Solo
Spiccato
Pizzicato
Tremolo
Plus Tympani and a bunch of pads.
It's possible that some of the sustain programs use the same sample base.
Even as it stands without streaming, I would think that by not loading one piano and/or the drums you would have room for a good selection of high quality strings.
Busch. |
Can you actually load only part of an EXS? Or only part of Karo KSL? |
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EvilDragon
Platinum Member
Joined: 24 Nov 2005
Posts: 1992
Location: Croatia
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| Posted: Sun Mar 20, 2011 9:49 pm Post subject: |
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| Naturally - you can selectively decide what's gonna be preloaded. |
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zahush76
Junior Member
Joined: 09 Mar 2011
Posts: 98
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| Posted: Mon Mar 21, 2011 6:26 am Post subject: |
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| burningbusch wrote: | C) The Karo Philharmonic Strings library contains a lot of articulations. I don't know how realistic it would be to expect to use all them live, so why have them loaded. Generally, you'll want one good sustain and possibly another articulation. Articulations that I can see from the Philharmonic Strings include:
Marcato
Arco
Legato
Emotional (sustain?)
Classic (sustain?)
Hollywood (sustain?)
Orchestra (sustain?)
Sordino
Solo
Spiccato
Pizzicato
Tremolo
Plus Tympani and a bunch of pads.
It's possible that some of the sustain programs use the same sample base.
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I think the marcato combi demo (the first demo) on the ksl product page is just awsome. It somehow contains several articulations. Or so it seems.
After working with kontakt strings, there are about 4 articulations i like to use: sustain, marcato, pizzicato and tremolo.
You are probably right about the sample base. When you get presets like "marcato 1", "marcato 2", "marcato 3", marcato 4" and so on - they probably use the same sample base, with small changes being made between presets. So that means you have to disable articulations, rather than presets\patches. There are hundreds of presets, and lots of them are probably grouped around the same samples. So in order to free ram effectively - we'll need to know which presets and combis share the same samples (and unload all of them...?).
That's probably right for all EXs... |
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peter_schwartz
Full Member
Joined: 14 Jan 2011
Posts: 206
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| Posted: Mon Mar 21, 2011 8:29 am Post subject: |
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| Lando wrote: | | I belive what MartinHines wrote is very likely, it's about quality control. |
I'm thinking that it's not likely at all. Third-party sample library developers don't need Korg's blessing to have their wares put out on the market. Karo's success will be based on the merits of their own work. Now, that's not to say that maybe Karo didn't solicit a little input from Korg (I do NOT know this for sure, I'm just supposing here) but regardless, it wouldn't make sense for Korg to invest money/resources to do QC on a product they don't make.
Korg is not the control-freak company that Apple is, where every app has to be "approved" (the whole concept makes me gag, actually). So if a third party library developer, be it Karo or anyone else, offers new sounds for sale for the Kronos, regardless of whether they sound great or they sound like crap, you won't be able to praise OR blame Korg (respectively). |
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