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TSUNAMI Platinum Member
Joined: 21 Jan 2002 Posts: 597 Location: Watford, Hertfordshire UK
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Posted: Mon Apr 25, 2011 10:01 am Post subject: |
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Just got my paper copy of SOS ... nice review .... now i really can't wait !!!! _________________ 13in Retina MacBook Pro, Quadcore i5 27in 8GB iMac, Logic Studio 9.1, Ableton Live9, Push, Volca Beats, Korg KRONOS 61, Korg Arp odyssey, Roland D50, Yamaha SY85, Moog Sub37, Roland TR8, Roland SP808, Korg NanoPad2, Eventide H9, Presonus 1602, Alesis M1 MkII, Yamaha APX5, Fender Splattercaster, DrumKat DK10, 1000 miles of cable !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! |
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synthguy Platinum Member
Joined: 05 Jan 2005 Posts: 661
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Posted: Mon Apr 25, 2011 10:38 am Post subject: |
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peter_schwartz wrote: | X-Trade wrote: | I find it kind of ironic, or maybe irritating, that many people consider a synthesizer is 'an oscillator that goes into a filter and an amp which has an envelope. | Well, people need to grok that basic configuration before they move on to more complex stuff. Kind of like "learning what the rules are so you can break them." Or, "learning to walk before you run".
The osc-filter-amp combination is perfection, even if it is simplistic. |
To buttress Peter's point, it's extremely rare that any artist - except the Trent Reznors of the world - approach analog style synthesis any other way. And most of Trent's stuff follows the usual subtractive path, just with a few wild doodads thrown in.
FM is another story, but as with the Kurzweil VAST engine, my typical programming goes along these lines:
OSC - (quantum physics) - FILTERS - OUTPUT
And each stage is usually modified by LFOs, envelopes, footpedals, sliders, key touch, button, breath control. Doing things without filtering is usually just too raw and unsatisfying, though I have a patch or two with no filters. However, those are the oddballs. _________________ PRAY FOR THIS PLANET!! |
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ScottB601 Junior Member
Joined: 18 Nov 2010 Posts: 58 Location: Rural Illiniois in the Middle of Nowhere
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Posted: Tue Apr 26, 2011 11:37 pm Post subject: |
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The article in my May Sound on Sound is a great article on the Kronos. Recommended highly. I agree that I've never seen such an extensive article about a new product. I love it when they say that nothing compares and how they explain that the Atom processor is a good choice for this amazing thing.
Now if it would only get here.........ordered a couple weeks ago and, like many of us, I'm going slowly insane waiting for it. Got my K88 for $3549. Not too bad. |
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Lou Platinum Member
Joined: 06 Sep 2002 Posts: 1305 Location: DE. USA
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Posted: Tue Apr 26, 2011 11:51 pm Post subject: |
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synthguy wrote: | peter_schwartz wrote: | X-Trade wrote: | I find it kind of ironic, or maybe irritating, that many people consider a synthesizer is 'an oscillator that goes into a filter and an amp which has an envelope. | Well, people need to grok that basic configuration before they move on to more complex stuff. Kind of like "learning what the rules are so you can break them." Or, "learning to walk before you run".
The osc-filter-amp combination is perfection, even if it is simplistic. |
To buttress Peter's point, it's extremely rare that any artist - except the Trent Reznors of the world - approach analog style synthesis any other way. And most of Trent's stuff follows the usual subtractive path, just with a few wild doodads thrown in.
FM is another story, but as with the Kurzweil VAST engine, my typical programming goes along these lines:
OSC - (quantum physics) - FILTERS - OUTPUT
And each stage is usually modified by LFOs, envelopes, footpedals, sliders, key touch, button, breath control. Doing things without filtering is usually just too raw and unsatisfying, though I have a patch or two with no filters. However, those are the oddballs. |
I can pretty much say I know nothing at all about programing.
How/where does one begin to start? I had an Oasys and barely scratched the surface, other than by accident with a few sounds.. _________________ Lou |
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peter_schwartz Full Member
Joined: 14 Jan 2011 Posts: 206
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Posted: Wed Apr 27, 2011 4:18 am Post subject: |
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Lou,
You could start by... reading my previous posts in this thread on FM synthesis basics! And for a really really quick how-to on analog synthesis, here ya go:
All commercial analog synthesizers work on this principle...
OSC---->FILTER---->AMP
^
KEYBD TRIGGER--->ENV
You start out with a sound source: an oscillator. This component provides a pitched tone, and the sound quality of that tone is determined by which waveform shape you select. Sawtooth waves sound bright, buzzy, trumpet-like. Square waves sound hollow. Etc.
Sticking with saw and square waves... if you listened to them on their own, they'd be very bright. To temper that brightness, the output of the oscillator feeds into the input of a low pass filter. Key here is the term "low pass". When you adjust the filter's cutoff control, it will cut off the bright, buzzy highs in the sound and pass the lower frequencies.
The output of the filter feeds into an amplifier. This is not like a stereo system amplifier that boosts a signal to ear-splitting loudness. It's more like a volume control that's normally turned all the way off. Signal will pass through the amp when its volume control receives a "control signal" that causes the volume to get turned up.
The control signal typically comes in the form of an envelope generator. This component outputs a control signal that's triggered by pressing a key, and the signal rises and falls over time. You have control over the rise and fall time via its attack and decay controls, as well as sustain and release controls.
What I described above is the fundamental basis for how all commercial analog synthesizers work. In practice, there are more envelopes and all kinds of other control and sound shaping. Still, the above is the gist of how they all work. And as I mentioned in a previous post, it's also the same principle by which all romplers work too (HD-1), except here, the oscillator takes the form of sample playback. |
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ScottB601 Junior Member
Joined: 18 Nov 2010 Posts: 58 Location: Rural Illiniois in the Middle of Nowhere
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Posted: Wed Apr 27, 2011 1:32 pm Post subject: |
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For synthesis basics as well as a few enhancements, you could also check out a video tutorial "Analog Synthesis in a Digital World" by Richard Lainhart at Macprovideo.com. A few books: "Sound Synthesis and Sampling" by Martin Russ; the old standby "Welsh's Synthesizer Cookbook: Synthesizer Programming, Sound Analysis, and Universal Patch Book" by Fred Welsh; "Power Tools for Synthesizer Programming: The Ultimate Reference for Sound Design Book/CD-ROM" by Jim Aiken.
Last edited by ScottB601 on Wed Apr 27, 2011 2:03 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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ozy Guest
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Posted: Wed Apr 27, 2011 1:46 pm Post subject: |
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and again my two favorites:
look on google for the following two manuals:
a) "fundamentals of music technology: the ARP 2600" by Samuel Ecoff.
It is a complete and VERY SIMPLE expalanation of WHAT every module in a synthesizer is, and what it can do, disguised as a ARP2600 manual
b) "access virus tutorial" by howard scarr.
Both are FREE, both are very well written, both go from very simple sounds to complex architectures,
the "arp 2600" is very classic and straightforward, with big pictures explaining concepts [it's a "semimodular synth for dummies" book]
the other is based on multitimbral, complex modern synth architectures (the access virus series), so it contains elements [non-lpf filters, complex envelopes, etc] which will help you with the m50. |
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Lou Platinum Member
Joined: 06 Sep 2002 Posts: 1305 Location: DE. USA
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Posted: Wed Apr 27, 2011 2:44 pm Post subject: |
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peter_schwartz wrote: | Lou,
You could start by... reading my previous posts in this thread on FM synthesis basics! And for a really really quick how-to on analog synthesis, here ya go:
All commercial analog synthesizers work on this principle...
OSC---->FILTER---->AMP
^
KEYBD TRIGGER--->ENV
You start out with a sound source: an oscillator. This component provides a pitched tone, and the sound quality of that tone is determined by which waveform shape you select. Sawtooth waves sound bright, buzzy, trumpet-like. Square waves sound hollow. Etc.
Sticking with saw and square waves... if you listened to them on their own, they'd be very bright. To temper that brightness, the output of the oscillator feeds into the input of a low pass filter. Key here is the term "low pass". When you adjust the filter's cutoff control, it will cut off the bright, buzzy highs in the sound and pass the lower frequencies.
The output of the filter feeds into an amplifier. This is not like a stereo system amplifier that boosts a signal to ear-splitting loudness. It's more like a volume control that's normally turned all the way off. Signal will pass through the amp when its volume control receives a "control signal" that causes the volume to get turned up.
The control signal typically comes in the form of an envelope generator. This component outputs a control signal that's triggered by pressing a key, and the signal rises and falls over time. You have control over the rise and fall time via its attack and decay controls, as well as sustain and release controls.
What I described above is the fundamental basis for how all commercial analog synthesizers work. In practice, there are more envelopes and all kinds of other control and sound shaping. Still, the above is the gist of how they all work. And as I mentioned in a previous post, it's also the same principle by which all romplers work too (HD-1), except here, the oscillator takes the form of sample playback. |
Thank you Peter, this basic breakdown was what I was looking for.
I'd like to keep it as simple as possible on my initial knob turns. (Your work is top shelf, I've enjoyed for many years now!)
Scott / Ozy
Thanks for the additional info. Will check out as I go along.. _________________ Lou |
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jimknopf Platinum Member
Joined: 17 Jan 2011 Posts: 3374
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Posted: Wed Apr 27, 2011 3:01 pm Post subject: |
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ozy wrote: | and again my two favorites:
look on google for the following two manuals:
a) "fundamentals of music technology: the ARP 2600" by Samuel Ecoff.
It is a complete and VERY SIMPLE expalanation of WHAT every module in a synthesizer is, and what it can do, disguised as a ARP2600 manual
b) "access virus tutorial" by howard scarr.
Both are FREE, both are very well written, both go from very simple sounds to complex architectures,
the "arp 2600" is very classic and straightforward, with big pictures explaining concepts [it's a "semimodular synth for dummies" book]
the other is based on multitimbral, complex modern synth architectures (the access virus series), so it contains elements [non-lpf filters, complex envelopes, etc] which will help you with the m50. |
WOW!
I will not pass by the occasion of a 100% affirmation to an Ozy post!
Exactly my two favorites on the matter in question...
I could add Welsh's synthesizer cookbook, and for those speaking German, a nice German CD by the "Moogulator" called "Hands On Synth Sound" (www.dvd-lernkurs.de), using the freeware Nord Modular software to explain subtractive synthesis from a modular view. |
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EvilDragon Platinum Member
Joined: 24 Nov 2005 Posts: 1992 Location: Croatia
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Posted: Wed Apr 27, 2011 4:07 pm Post subject: |
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I've read Access Virus tutorial. Amazingly well written! I can only second the recommendation! |
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X-Trade Moderator
Joined: 14 Feb 2006 Posts: 6494 Location: Leeds, UK
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Posted: Wed Apr 27, 2011 5:09 pm Post subject: |
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Lets not forget the Sound On Sound: Synth Secrets series. _________________ Current Gear: Kronos 61, RADIAS-R, Volca Bass, ESX-1, microKorg, MS2000B, R3, Kaossilator Pro +, MiniKP, AX3000B, nanoKontrol, nanoPad MK II,
Other Mfgrs: Moog Sub37, Roland Boutique JX03, Novation MiniNova, Akai APC40, MOTU MIDI TimePiece 2, ART Pro VLA, Focusrite Saffire Pro 40.
Past Gear: Korg Karma, TR61, Poly800, EA-1, ER-1, ES-1, Kawai K1, Novation ReMote37SL, Boss GT-6B
Software: NI Komplete 10 Ultimate, Arturia V Collection, Ableton Live 9. Apple OSX El Capitan on 15" MacBook Pro |
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peter_schwartz Full Member
Joined: 14 Jan 2011 Posts: 206
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Posted: Wed Apr 27, 2011 6:21 pm Post subject: |
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You're welcome Lou. |
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ScottB601 Junior Member
Joined: 18 Nov 2010 Posts: 58 Location: Rural Illiniois in the Middle of Nowhere
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Posted: Wed Apr 27, 2011 10:21 pm Post subject: |
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Good God. This IS good. Anybody have all the documents already downloaded and are willing share as one big fat file? Downloading them all individually is taking forever? |
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ozy Guest
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Posted: Wed Apr 27, 2011 10:30 pm Post subject: |
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ScottB601 wrote: |
Good God. This IS good. Anybody have all the documents already downloaded and are willing share as one big fat file? Downloading them all individually is taking forever? |
I downloaded them.
message me and send me your e-mail.
I'll reply with the files. |
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ozy Guest
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Posted: Wed Apr 27, 2011 10:36 pm Post subject: |
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jimknopf wrote: | a nice German CD by the "Moogulator" called "Hands On Synth Sound" (www.dvd-lernkurs.de), using the freeware Nord Modular software to explain subtractive synthesis from a modular view. |
this is WEIRD
a "bible" from Italian synth guru Cosimi was just published (a huge, comprehensive, 1100 pages guide to synthesis),
and it's based on the same idea: using the nord modular free demo to teach synthesis.
two people, wiriting in two european language whose diffusion is very limited, a big book on synthesis, based on the same machine and examples...
... separated from each other,
and without an English [aka lingua franca] translation.
what a waste of resources for a limited public.
I didn't quote Cosimi because it's available only in Italian, which is spoken by... er...
... 30.000.000 peope in Italy and a couple million in Argentina I reckon
To reach a global audience,
Cosimi and moogulator should have joined forces, and published...
... in Latin.
Frequentia XXIV decibelli cribri [dicitur IV poli] gubernata est ab involucro in quatuor stadia solutus: impetum, declinus, cessatio et dimissio: inde appellatus est IDCD involucrus.
Minimus Mogulus Americanus tres stadia habet, inde involucrus appellatus est ID (tandem ICD). Modestia in stadiorum numero
Tardus Rolandus Nipponicus J. P. MMMMMMMM plurima stadia habet.
and so on for 1100 pages. |
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