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Kronos Party at Bellevue American Music
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Melodialworks Music
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Joined: 23 Feb 2003
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 24, 2011 3:15 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

MidnightPackage wrote:
I just found a handful of short videos from this event here:

http://www.youtube.com/user/BellevueAmericanMusi


Thanks for posting the links. Enjoyable.
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zahush76
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Joined: 09 Mar 2011
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 24, 2011 9:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

burningbusch wrote:
So for someone like myself who is largely software-based and will use this primarily as a studio instrument, why is it of interest to me?

.


That's exactly my situation, and i wanted to ask you - from a perspective of working with it in a studio context - what model have you ordered? 61? 73? or 88?
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burningbusch
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 24, 2011 10:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

jimknopf wrote:
Busch, as you can imagine from our earlier talk, I am extremely curious concerning the EPs:

a) you remember our discussion of a realistic "dry", at high velocity barking Mk I sound in the upper range, as opposed to the unrealistic thin bell/music box sound I heard on some demos?
Now please tell me I won't ever need a sampled Scarbee Mk I Rhodes on board of a Kronos to get that dry, grooving ~1974 sound! Razz

b) the Wurlies weren't covered well in the demos I saw so far (most demo sounds had a lot of FX going on): how does the raw Wurly sound?

c) the Clavs don't belong to the EXi, as far as I remember, and those from HD1 and/or plucked strings sounded a bit thin in the demos, if I remember right. Did you check them as well?


BTW, which other forum did you post your review to?


Again, my time was short. With both the Mark I and II, I could hear tines in a range above middle-C (typical area for tine to be more pronounced). It wasn't over the top at all, but it was present. I didn't mess with the parameters to see how much they would affect this. Personally, I don't find this a big negative. I've owned a dozen Rhodes and they all sounded different enough. The Mark V, as I recall, didn't have noticeable tine sound--would need to investigate that further. One thing I've come to realize about the Scarbee Mark I is the importance of the release samples. These are very pronounced. It was only after I added the multiple velocity release layers to my sampled Mark V did I get close to that Scarbee sound. I think that's one of the things that going to separate hardware Rhodes from something like Scarbee is the release samples are not as defined nor as present in the sound. They need to be done at many velocities otherwise they're only useful as a bit of background sound. So I guess what I'm saying is, if Scarbee (with prominent release samples) is your gold standard, you might not be able to get that on the EP-1. Personally, I've gone in and trimmed the release sample volume back some and even made versions for live use that didn't have any and I was completely happy with the sound. Sometimes I feel they kind of get in the way.

I went through maybe a half dozen presets and they all sounded really nice. Herbie's Butterfly sounded better to me live than on most of the demos. I think it's one of those sounds that sounds great if you're in the right listening environment.

I breezed through the Wurlies. I can't comment much more than I thought they were expressive and accurate.

I did have Steve pull up a STR-1 clavinet. I really love how these things sound and play. You might give up absolute 100% tone accuracy but you gain superb playability. They play like butter. I pulled out my D6 last week and that sound/action connection is so unique. We wouldn't have the clav playing if it were any different. But it too plays like butter. It's not that I think the STR-1 clavs are tonally that far off. It definitely sounds like a clav. Just if you tried to match up to specific pickup settings, the sampled version might come across as a little closer to the mark. But the STR-1 has this funky dryness and no hint of the harshness found in WAY too many sampled versions. There is also something about the plucked string model that brings sounds to life. They have a presence about them. As good as the Scarbee clavs are, I've never been able to get them to play/respond the way I'd like.

Busch.
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burningbusch
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 24, 2011 10:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

zahush76 wrote:
burningbusch wrote:
So for someone like myself who is largely software-based and will use this primarily as a studio instrument, why is it of interest to me?

.


That's exactly my situation, and i wanted to ask you - from a perspective of working with it in a studio context - what model have you ordered? 61? 73? or 88?


I have a 73 on order. I use a 61 note semi-weighted controller as well. The 61-note sits on the keyboard tray of my desk and the weighted keyboard is on the main part of the desk. This configuration allows me to have both actions tightly arranged and easily accessible.

Only if the 61 note comes out early and the weighted actions are delayed will I get the 61. I need to try to be patient.

Busch.
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jimknopf
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 25, 2011 6:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks very much for your extensive answer, Bush!
It's all about favorite sounds, so I don't want to be misunderstood as a maniac with whatever I say about Rhodes sounds. I just happen to love the real deal since many years, and any effort of getting close to it (not only in tone, but also in dynamics: a Rhodes has a bigger dynamic range than even a grand piano, as someone told me a while ago) is a subject of interest to me.

My gold standard for a Rhodes sound isn't the Scarbee, but a kind of Rhodes from that Rhodes generation, as also sampled very well by Thomas Scarbye. I know that this one has been put into shape by Jens Lüpke here in Germany, and I know that Jens is one of the best wordwide for that kind of job. So the Scarbee library is my personal favorite of all sampled/modelled efforts of classical EPs so far - not to forget your CP1-presets being the first I really liked as hardware versions.

Unnatural bell tone:
Every Rhodes has a (varying) amount of bell tone, so I have no general problem with that principally. I just notice that all mixures of sampling and modelling, which I heard so far, seem to have a tendency to misconfigure this aspect of a Rhodes more than anything else.

Too much tiny, nearly music box like bell character just doesn't provide enough reminiscence of the real deal. So "dry" doesn't mean "without any bell" to me, but
a) there should be enough basic dry tone to be configurable at all: if it is completely missing in the tone and REPLACED by bell tine, no tweaking in the world will help to make a good Rhodes of it ever
b) the amount of additional bell character should be tweakable and better turned down siginificantly right from the start from my view (unless you want to get a Dyno Rhodes or fake an early Fender Rhodes silver top or very early suitcase model).

The rest of EP-1 sounds VERY promising: I can nearly feel the available dynamics under my fingertips, before ever having played Kronos/EP1. And concerning release samples, I don't overdo that on the Scarbee anyway, because it becomes an unnatural background noise then: it's better to keep it in the area of hardly being noticed consciously.

We both noticed a quite dry sounding Mk I in one of the demos (if I remember right, a Japanese one). Did you get that one to play or is it buried in the presets?

Concerning the clavs:
I don't expect the impossible. The original interaction of attack/pressure and sound of a D6 is hard to emulate. But I like the different pickup settings of the Scarbee a lot: they are really useful in different contexts.

Looks like we have a lot of checking and tweaking still to do before coming to more definite results.

Again: thanks a lot for taking the time!
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