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Kontrol49
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Joined: 04 Mar 2006
Posts: 1280
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 Posted: Sun May 08, 2011 11:40 pm Post subject: |
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Can anyone else smell it???? 
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Davidb
Platinum Member
Joined: 21 Oct 2002
Posts: 1592
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| Posted: Tue May 10, 2011 4:28 pm Post subject: |
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*Duplicated post*
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Regards.
D.
Last edited by Davidb on Tue May 10, 2011 8:49 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Zeroesque
Senior Member
Joined: 17 Jan 2011
Posts: 451
Location: SoCal
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| Posted: Tue May 10, 2011 7:23 pm Post subject: |
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| Kontrol49 wrote: | | Can anyone else smell it???? |
I just listened to 6 tracks. I have no idea why the production of them took more than any one workstation produced in the last 15 years, an SM57, a 2-channel audio interface and a free audio program.
That said, I'm not here to poke fun at anyone's music, and that's not what my (frankly, unnecessary) comment is meant to do. It just seems that in this case, 150 synths is less about music and more about, well, I really wouldn't know.
Anyone is welcome to listen to my stuff and tear me a new one about how much it sucks. Really. I do it all the time.
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Kronos 61, Kronos2-88, Hammond B3, Baldwin SD-10 |
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Davidb
Platinum Member
Joined: 21 Oct 2002
Posts: 1592
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| Posted: Tue May 10, 2011 8:48 pm Post subject: |
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| jimknopf wrote: | | The best arrangements I know are always those with limited tracks (in the sense of distinct sounds, not in the sence of practical organisation)... |
I´m agree with you on this statement.
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For sequencing basic song structures I never need more than 16 midi tracks on a hardware sequencer...
So my first priority for such a tool would never be the number of possible midi tracks, but instead always the quality of the available editing functions in the first place. And I hope very much, that the Kronos sequencer will be developed further than that of the Oasys some day, concerning things like piano roll editor and editing functionality. It's ok for the start, as far as I see, with good overall song overview, but probably not much more as it is now.
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Again, Agreed.
Very true.
+ 1
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D. |
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Shakil
Platinum Member
Joined: 08 Jan 2002
Posts: 1169
Location: New Jersey, USA
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| Posted: Wed May 11, 2011 2:34 pm Post subject: |
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| Kontrol49 wrote: |
16 Midi Channels in the Oasys sequencer is fine but it would be nice to be also not sacrificing the use of track count over channel allocation,this is perhaps one of the biggest bug bears with it,keep it as a 16 channel device,but give it 128 midi tracks and also the option to run 16 Internal sounds as well as 16 external channels
I hate the fact you have to either use an internal or external sound on a track if you wish to run outboard gear,I don't want to have to record that Device or commit to an audio track on the Oasys to free that track up for that purpose of midi allocation to get round it! |
Fantom-G has your answer... 128 MIDI tracks, 16 internal parts, and 16 external dedicated parts..... Each track can have multichannel [up to 64 (16 internal, 16 external, 16 arx exp 1, 16 arx exp 2) MIDI phrase. Track can be sent to internal/external/exp1/exp2 or the way it was recorded in Phrase. You can't change channel per track in song track layout, as you can in a software DAW, you can only change MIDI port. All this can be confusing and hard to manage sometimes though. For example, I can the Fantom-G in loop recording and record a phrase that can have MIDI for internal parts + parts from M3. Then I can use that phrase any where in the song or other songs and it will keep all those channels in one phrase, and I could easily create a mess...... but, with flexibility comes complexity....
So... Fantom-G is VERY close to being a perfect MIDI sequencer...... only if Roland would add the missing editing features.
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Roland Fantom-G6 ARX1, Korg M3-m exb-Radias, Korg Z1-18v, Roland MC-808, Roland MC-909, Korg microKontrol. |
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Kontrol49
Platinum Member
Joined: 04 Mar 2006
Posts: 1280
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| Posted: Wed May 11, 2011 3:23 pm Post subject: |
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| Shakil wrote: |
Fantom-G has your answer...
So... Fantom-G is VERY close to being a perfect MIDI sequencer...... only if Roland would add the missing editing features. |
I dare say its based around the MV8800 OS and sequence methods and operations,which is alongside the Akai MPC4000 I use,by far and away the best Hardware sequencer going.
If I was in the market for a workstation then would consider the Fantom G,it just came too late for me,apart from the extra Audio tracks and Rompler engine I wouldn't be getting anything more for the money than I do with the MV8800.
I would love nothing more than to be able to bolt the best bits from all the equipment and make them one complete Audio Workstation that was worthy of the term,I wonder how many people conside the Oasys or Kronos an actual "Workstation" or merely a sound module with a scratchpad sequencer on.
Certainly from my view that how Korg see it,Are they even aware of what Sequencers contain these days,both hard and soft versions!!!!!!as they always seem to make superb instruments with second rate lacklustre sequencers on I don't think its ever going to be a Workstation where it would be the one and only device you'd ever need,even with Kronos's healthy plethora of synthesis,its always going to be used in conjunction with some form of external sequencing to get the best out of it and that to me is very wrong when your coining it the ultimate workstation,why not make the sequencer as an optional extra,especially when you paying for OS that your not going to use to great extent.
Its kind of like Korg realise that nobody is going to fully accomplish complete tracks on the Workstation and so see its not so important these days to make it anything other than useable
An Oasys or Kronos with an MPC4000 or MV8800 sequencer would just be the ultimate tool for me.
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thekeymaster
Senior Member
Joined: 04 Jan 2006
Posts: 367
Location: Stoke-On-Trent,England
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| Posted: Wed May 11, 2011 4:04 pm Post subject: |
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To wave in on this, I use an OASYS and a Fantom G7. The Fantom controls the OASYS.This is by far the most flexible option.
In regards to Kronos,not to make this a sequencer debate but I think they really dropped the ball in this one aspect.The Kronos is a superb sounding instrument with a sequencer that doesn't do it justice. You can use it and produce perfect sequences/tracks on it but it does not match the Fantom G's sequencer when it comes to control or flexibility.
I think in an ideal world what we need is a Roland/Korg hybrid workstation !!!!
As for Sina and his collection of instruments,dude you have to show us pictures.........i'm intruged. I personally learnt along time ago that too much equipment can bog you down but thats just my way of working,each to their own.
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Neil.
Cake Muncher |
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Shakil
Platinum Member
Joined: 08 Jan 2002
Posts: 1169
Location: New Jersey, USA
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| Posted: Wed May 11, 2011 6:49 pm Post subject: |
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Yes, that's why I WISH Kronos had module option like M3........ then I would just replace M3-m with KRONOS-m slaved to Fantom-G....
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Roland Fantom-G6 ARX1, Korg M3-m exb-Radias, Korg Z1-18v, Roland MC-808, Roland MC-909, Korg microKontrol. |
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jimknopf
Platinum Member
Joined: 17 Jan 2011
Posts: 3374
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| Posted: Wed May 11, 2011 10:34 pm Post subject: |
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The Fantom G has some nice masterkeyboard functionality.
But the sequencer - nah 
It's not only uncapable of doing simple editing jobs beyond and across phrase boundaries, it also has a desastrous phrase management, which makes it completely impossible to keep good overview over song structures, with idiotic naming, and uncapable to keep all song data in a subfolder, instead spreading them wildly over the chaos of globally available memory slots. It is also uncapable to deal with uneven measures in any appropriate way etc. etc. In a linear sequencer you can cut and paste parts of clips, glue the results, mark a whole track and perform edits across it. Try the same jobs on a rigid phrase based sequencer like the Fantom G's, and you will waste your time, always having to refer to those silly little phrase boundaries.
I got by with this sequencer for recording some short ideas. But it drove me nuts as soon as I tried to write or arrange complete songs with it, even with very limited numbers of tracks!
So yes, from what I see in the specs, the Oasys sequencer surely is still quite basic (and as far as I understood even the M3 sequencer is a bit more advanced concerning editing views) and certainly should be improved. But I would not be surprised if I still got by better with it in the end in everyday use, than with the silly Fantom G phrase management. I need a basic workflow (editing and song structure) BEFORE other more demanding things, and I normally prefer doing the latter on a software sequencer anyway.
So if others are happy with the FG sequencer, fine with me. 
I will still have to test that of the Kronos, to see where I get in comparison. |
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Hugo
Platinum Member
Joined: 23 Jun 2006
Posts: 809
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| Posted: Wed May 11, 2011 11:12 pm Post subject: |
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| If Korg update the Kronos sequencer with piano roll editing (and maybe other functionality), it will surely be a truly self contained workstation. |
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Kontrol49
Platinum Member
Joined: 04 Mar 2006
Posts: 1280
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| Posted: Thu May 12, 2011 2:13 am Post subject: |
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| thekeymaster wrote: | The Kronos is a superb sounding instrument with a sequencer that doesn't do it justice.
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Seems the Kronos has more in common with the Oasys than we thought 
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Davidb
Platinum Member
Joined: 21 Oct 2002
Posts: 1592
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| Posted: Fri May 13, 2011 8:29 pm Post subject: |
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| Kontrol49 wrote: |
Certainly from my view that how Korg see it,Are they even aware of what Sequencers contain these days,both hard and soft versions!!!!!!as they always seem to make superb instruments with second rate lacklustre sequencers on I don't think its ever going to be a Workstation where it would be the one and only device you'd ever need,even with Kronos's healthy plethora of synthesis,its always going to be used in conjunction with some form of external sequencing to get the best out of it and that to me is very wrong when your coining it the ultimate workstation,why not make the sequencer as an optional extra,especially when you paying for OS that your not going to use to great extent.
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True.
In fact, and as you know so well  (but for those who don´t), it was requested several times during the OASYS longevity (and even after) to have a sequencer revision with enhanced tools for editing MIDI and audio, etc, even in form of a paid upgrade OS if necessary.
So this point disscused here is not new to Korg.
Even not new to Kronos either, as this model is in its core a revamped OASYS.
| Quote: |
Its kind of like Korg realise that nobody is going to fully accomplish complete tracks on the Workstation and so see its not so important these days to make it anything other than useable seq mode. |
An assumption proven wrong several times so far.
And also, a not very smart nor well thought planning, IMHO, when the company releases something like the OASYS, with a 10" display, 8 audio outs, 4 audio ins, Phantom power preamps, 16 real audio tracks, Internal HD, CD burner, etc.
...Those are not requeriments for keyboard designed exlusively for gigging, isn´t it?
| Quote: |
An Oasys or Kronos with an MPC4000 or MV8800 sequencer would just be the ultimate tool for me.
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Yeah! Agreed.
Sounds like heaven to me.
However, I´m agree with jimknopf statement regrading that the most important thing to improve in a keyboard WS, if you want to call a device this way, is to equip it within the most modern track and editing features as possible.
At least that.
In this regard, an update to the M3 OS 2.0 editing capabilities would be necessary and more than adequated in this day and age for a device like Kronos.
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D. |
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EXer
Platinum Member
Joined: 17 Jan 2011
Posts: 558
Location: France
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| Posted: Sat May 14, 2011 8:45 am Post subject: |
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| Davidb wrote: | | [...] an update to the M3 OS 2.0 editing capabilities [of the on-board sequencer] would be necessary and more than adequated in this day and age for a device like Kronos. |
I totally agree.
Let's hope Korg will hear us. |
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Lou
Platinum Member
Joined: 06 Sep 2002
Posts: 1305
Location: DE. USA
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| Posted: Sat May 14, 2011 4:28 pm Post subject: |
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Buy Kronos for what it is. Why sit around hoping for updates when the board hasn't even hit the streets. Why are so many complaining already?
For that matter, don't buy it, sit around waiting to see if they do any updates at all.
Then no one will have anything to complain about. ..
Give it a break guys..
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Davidb
Platinum Member
Joined: 21 Oct 2002
Posts: 1592
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| Posted: Wed May 18, 2011 9:57 am Post subject: |
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| Lou wrote: | Why are so many complaining already?
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Err, sorry... what are you talking about?
Who is supossed to be complaining?
People are talking about a subject and giving its input about it.
Thats all.
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D. |
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