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Melodialworks Music
Platinum Member
Joined: 23 Feb 2003
Posts: 522
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 Posted: Wed May 25, 2011 7:38 pm Post subject: |
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| Bach42t wrote: | It's not going to print and provided in the box, so it can be easily corrected and provided on the Korg website or a later DVD press included.
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The issue for some will be that they will have paid apparently hundreds of dollars to have the manuals printed.
My approach? Add to my iPad 2. New version? Replace the docs on the iPad. |
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sparkie
Platinum Member
Joined: 15 Feb 2005
Posts: 743
Location: Indiana
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| Posted: Wed May 25, 2011 9:12 pm Post subject: |
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| Lougheed wrote: | | Bach42t wrote: | It's not going to print and provided in the box, so it can be easily corrected and provided on the Korg website or a later DVD press included.
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The issue for some will be that they will have paid apparently hundreds of dollars to have the manuals printed.
My approach? Add to my iPad 2. New version? Replace the docs on the iPad. |
The local Office Depot around me charges 6c a copy for 2 sided B&W .. That amounts to less than $100 .. |
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MartinHines
Platinum Member
Joined: 21 Jan 2003
Posts: 3036
Location: Topeka, KS (USA)
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| Posted: Thu May 26, 2011 3:14 am Post subject: |
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| Lougheed wrote: | | The issue for some will be that they will have paid apparently hundreds of dollars to have the manuals printed. |
The OASYS manuals had five revisions. In comparing the first version to the last version, there were:
-- changes to correct a small number of errors
-- changes when new functionality was added
By now, people should realize there is some risk in printing out the manuals. However, given both manuals total over 1,400 pages, the vast majority of those pages won't ever change. |
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NuSkoolTone
Approved Merchant
Joined: 19 Mar 2007
Posts: 1069
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| Posted: Thu May 26, 2011 3:34 am Post subject: |
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| jimknopf wrote: | NuSkoolTone,
this is a completely harmless oversight not causing the slightest damage.
Dan has written excellent manuals for the Oasys and now for the Kronos, and with so much identical text it is easy to overlook somtehing like that.
I enjoy reading the manuals before Kronos release, and that's ten times more important to me than a 100% error free (hard to achieve) manual.
So I think your comment is heaviliy out of proportion in more than one way, and you and we should forget it together, just as fast as the manual error which soon will be corrected. |
I'll choose this post out of the pitchforks drawn out for me for my post(s).
I can certainly appreciate that it's "Not that big a deal", "Big manual, easy to miss something so trivial" Yada yada yada. Maybe it won't happen to you, but when you try to make something work and then find out the REFERENCE manual you're reading is giving you the wrong information you'll agree with me. Have hours, days of your time wasted, miss a deadline, hold up a project because of it and you'll change your tune. Most of us don't have those kind of pressures, but it's a PROFESSIONAL instrument and the documentation should be on that level. PERIOD!
You guys really are quite forgiving! Of course I forget I'm on a KORG Fan site and you can choose to disagree with me, but here it is:
The Kronos has been under development for HOW long? And aside from two engines, and the SSD it's nearly IDENTICAL to the OASYS? Right?
So besides writing two sections for the new engines, and writing about the SSD and streaming, WHAT was there to write about/change? Personally I expected MORE than a using a "Replace ALL" function in an editor with the word "OASYS" for "Kronos" for the new manual(s).
If there was SO little that had to be done to the manual, why did it have to be held under wraps for so long? We live in a world where documentation is an AFTERTHOUGHT. Plain and Simple! Sorry I'm just not on that bus. I remember when a manual was MORE than just a list of definitions of what the parameters are.
This doesn't make me appreciate the hard work put into the Kronos by all teams any less, and if Dan ended up with this burden on his shoulders I have sympathy for him (Under the assumption that this is not his main function at the company) because Korg should have hired a technical writer with some MI background to do the manuals. So someone could put in the time REQUIRED to do a thorough and accurate job.
This won't keep me from buying a Kronos, I still can't wait to play it. Though it's a deep instrument and time is precious to me so forgive me for having my own expectations.
~peace~
_________________
Korg: KRONOS 73, M50-61, 01W/r
Yamaha: Motif XS7, FS1R
Kawai K5000S, Roland JD-990 w/Vintage Synth |
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McHale
Platinum Member
Joined: 10 Feb 2009
Posts: 2487
Location: B.F.E.
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| Posted: Thu May 26, 2011 3:37 am Post subject: |
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you make a few crazy assumptions in that last post.
I'll give you a hint though. If you find something in the manual you need help with and the manual is incorrect, PM the guy who wrote the freaking manual and I'm willing to be he'll go out of his way to help you. So again, rip on Korg or Dan or whoever you want for some situation that will never happen.
_________________
Current Korg Gear: KRONOS 88 (4GB), M50-73 (PS mod), RADIAS-73, Electribe MX, Triton Pro (MOSS, SCSI, CF, 64MB RAM), SQ-64, DVP-1, MEX-8000, MR-1, KAOSSilator, nanoKey, nanoKontrol, 3x nanoPad 2, 3x DS1H, 7x PS1, FC7 (yes Korg, NOT Yamaha). |
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NuSkoolTone
Approved Merchant
Joined: 19 Mar 2007
Posts: 1069
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| Posted: Thu May 26, 2011 3:56 am Post subject: |
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| McHale wrote: | you make a few crazy assumptions in that last post.
I'll give you a hint though. If you find something in the manual you need help with and the manual is incorrect, PM the guy who wrote the freaking manual and I'm willing to be he'll go out of his way to help you. So again, rip on Korg or Dan or whoever you want for some situation that will never happen. |
The assumptions are not based on reality but are written to make a point. Something like the section of the manual cited about LEDs SCREAMS find and replace was used. Anyone who actually READ the page most likely would have caught that. It's called proofreading. Have you heard of it? It's part of any normal documentation process.
I'm not looking to "Rip" on anyone or cause a s**t storm. If one guy on the development team got tasked to do the manual and it's not his main gig I don't hold him responsible I look at management. Tell me HOW I'm going to know the Manual is "Incorrect" without either:
A.) Reading it here
B.) Someone telling me
C.) Doing a specific controlled test that proves the manual wrong.
D.) Fat chance to any of the above.
I'm going with D. Now if I can PM "Dan" and say "Hey can you verify this?" That's AWESOME, but how many times can one do that before being a pest? What about the people who aren't internet Korg fanbois logging into this forum everyday? They're SOL.
Lastly, what makes you think a situation "Would never happen"? I certainly have musical deadlines I have to deliver professionally so THAT could happen, and unless EVERY Function is identical between the two boards a forgotten update could ALSO happen.
Is it likely this will happen? Maybe not, but given the context of what was missed doesn't inspire confidence and that's what I'm trying to say. I mean that was an OBVIOUS one, something subtle would be much more painful. Just because it's a "Minor" omission in the scheme of things, doesn't make the standard I'm looking for any less desired. If you and many others don't care fine, you're entitled. But I DO care.
_________________
Korg: KRONOS 73, M50-61, 01W/r
Yamaha: Motif XS7, FS1R
Kawai K5000S, Roland JD-990 w/Vintage Synth |
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McHale
Platinum Member
Joined: 10 Feb 2009
Posts: 2487
Location: B.F.E.
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| Posted: Thu May 26, 2011 5:30 am Post subject: |
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Find me a Kronos function missing from the manual and we'll talk. Until then, you're just being a jerk. Seriously. You're making crazy accusations and insane assumptions to drive home a point that is irrelevant. Why?
Hell, I can't remember the last time I pulled out a Korg manual for anything. They're all still in the ziplock bags they came in. I may have pulled out my Triton Classic manual to figure out how to use the vocoder and that's probably the last time.
_________________
Current Korg Gear: KRONOS 88 (4GB), M50-73 (PS mod), RADIAS-73, Electribe MX, Triton Pro (MOSS, SCSI, CF, 64MB RAM), SQ-64, DVP-1, MEX-8000, MR-1, KAOSSilator, nanoKey, nanoKontrol, 3x nanoPad 2, 3x DS1H, 7x PS1, FC7 (yes Korg, NOT Yamaha). |
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Rosen Sound
Approved Merchant
Joined: 06 Jan 2010
Posts: 1056
Location: Los Angeles, California
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| Posted: Thu May 26, 2011 7:06 am Post subject: |
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| McHale wrote: | | I may have pulled out my Triton Classic manual to figure out how to use the vocoder and that's probably the last time. |
Were you as disappointed as I was?
_________________
Current gear: Korg Kronos 61, Oberheim OB-8, Alesis Vortex
Past Gear: Triton Extreme w/moss & ram, Korg Radias, Kurzweil Micropiano, Triton classic, & Karma
Come visit my Burbank California repair shop/recording studio! Rosensound.com
And my band: Sirion.us.com |
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McHale
Platinum Member
Joined: 10 Feb 2009
Posts: 2487
Location: B.F.E.
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| Posted: Thu May 26, 2011 7:24 am Post subject: |
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| robbinhood wrote: | | Were you as disappointed as I was? |
Yep. I still have my DVP-1 after all these years for a reason. I'm pretty bummed they put no effort into a real vocoder in the Kronos. I'd pay for that (but not if it's the measly vocoder that's in the RADIAS). I dunno, mix the VC-10 with the DVP-1 and they'd have a winner.
_________________
Current Korg Gear: KRONOS 88 (4GB), M50-73 (PS mod), RADIAS-73, Electribe MX, Triton Pro (MOSS, SCSI, CF, 64MB RAM), SQ-64, DVP-1, MEX-8000, MR-1, KAOSSilator, nanoKey, nanoKontrol, 3x nanoPad 2, 3x DS1H, 7x PS1, FC7 (yes Korg, NOT Yamaha). |
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Rosen Sound
Approved Merchant
Joined: 06 Jan 2010
Posts: 1056
Location: Los Angeles, California
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| Posted: Thu May 26, 2011 7:54 am Post subject: |
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| McHale wrote: | | robbinhood wrote: | | Were you as disappointed as I was? |
Yep. I still have my DVP-1 after all these years for a reason. I'm pretty bummed they put no effort into a real vocoder in the Kronos. I'd pay for that (but not if it's the measly vocoder that's in the RADIAS). I dunno, mix the VC-10 with the DVP-1 and they'd have a winner. |
The radias's vocoder is pretty tits if ya ask me!
_________________
Current gear: Korg Kronos 61, Oberheim OB-8, Alesis Vortex
Past Gear: Triton Extreme w/moss & ram, Korg Radias, Kurzweil Micropiano, Triton classic, & Karma
Come visit my Burbank California repair shop/recording studio! Rosensound.com
And my band: Sirion.us.com |
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Akos Janca
Platinum Member
Joined: 16 Mar 2005
Posts: 1158
Location: Budapest, Hungary
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| Posted: Thu May 26, 2011 10:03 am Post subject: |
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I agree with the critics in the following: the manual should be perfect. It's a reference document for all users (amateur of professional) even if they are not part of a forum like this.
But I say this from first-hand experience: it is very hard to write and update such a huge documentation.
First, it's not easy to find the right person with the specific skills and experience. For reference manuals it's better to have only one writer - in smaller companies he will substitute also the editor-in-chief.
Second, a very good communication is needed in-between the company's departments (R&D, Management, Marketing etc.).
Third, the development and production is forced as much as possible because of the competition.
I could continue.
Please understand: the amount of work behind Kronos is enormous. There might be errors. If they are not vital then please forgive the creators. And help them with feedback to correct. (Believe me, they are their own critics and that's enough...)
After all this story is not only for their profit but for our good.
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AkosJanca.com | Facebook | YouTube | SoundCloud | FuturePlant || OASYS-demos | nanoROCK demo | Korg Band in the Garage demo | Kronos Demo 1 | Kronos Demo 2 |
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ozy
Guest
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| Posted: Thu May 26, 2011 11:00 am Post subject: |
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| who or what is a "manual"? |
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dangerousdave
Full Member
Joined: 12 Apr 2011
Posts: 129
Location: Scotland
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ScoobyDoo555
Platinum Member
Joined: 12 Jan 2008
Posts: 840
Location: Herefordshire, UK
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| Posted: Thu May 26, 2011 11:35 am Post subject: |
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Not to be confused with "Manuel" - for he is a Spanish waiter 
In all seriousness, mistakes happen with manuals and yes, they should be proof-read.
However, and here's the novel bit (pardon the related pun) - any mistakes you find, AND THIS APPLIES TO EVERYBODY, just PM Dan with the issue (inc page number) - the sooner the mistakes are found, the sooner they are rectified. Simples 
_________________
Yamaha SY77 & KX88, SSL Nucleus, Korg Kronos 61, Wavestation A/D, Access Virus B, Roland XP30, DeepMind12D, System 1m, V-Synth XT, Focusrite Red16Line, Unitor 8, Akai S3000 XL, Alesis Quadraverb+, Focal Shape Twins, Full fat iMac, Logic Pro X, ProTools 2021, loadsa plugins.
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ozy
Guest
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| Posted: Thu May 26, 2011 12:01 pm Post subject: |
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I checked your link. It's not very helpful. Somehow it confused me further.
Manual:
1.Of or done with the hands
ok, so the Kronos is manual, right?
2.(of a machine or device) Worked by hand, not automatically or electronically
Wait, no, it's not manual since it's electronic
4.A thing operated or done by hand rather than automatically or electronically, in particular
5.An organ keyboard played with the hands
so, the Kronos is manual even if it's electronic?
It is a step by step guide to achieving a No.1 single with no money or musical skills
ok, that sounds more like an arranger though
A manual is a keyboard designed to be played with the hands on a pipe organ, harpsichord, clavichord, electronic organ, or synthesizer. ...
This is very confusing
Manual is the performing name of electronic musician, Jonas Munk, from Odense, Denmark.
this is totally confusing: does Manual play a Kronos?
Manually?
A male given name: a rare spelling variant of Manuel, sometimes considered erratic
I give up. |
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