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EXer
Platinum Member
Joined: 17 Jan 2011
Posts: 558
Location: France
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 Posted: Sat May 28, 2011 4:06 pm Post subject: |
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| Kevin Nolan wrote: | | There is indeed an issue (unless as said you are simply going to leave it static and non changing which to me is a contradiction to owning such a deeply configurable instrument / environment). |
I guess that different people have different needs.
I'm not going to leave the user patch memory static. I plan to have an archive for each project (studio work or live work), i.e. a directory on disk containing all the files related to that project, including .pcg files. So I believe that *for me* 7 user banks will do the job: I won't need more than 896 user patches for a single project.
If that's enough or not for the requirements of your job, I can't say. In my post I was answering the people who complained that 'there's only 1 free bank to save patches'.
Nevertheless, where I can see a real issue with more complex projects lies in the fact that the combis only contain *pointers* to patches, which indeed can make patches and combis management difficult.
Way better would have been to be able to save a version of the patches used by a combi with the data of the combi itself. So the user could use a preset or a user patch in a combi, then tweak it within the combi and save the modified version with the combi without having to overwrite the original patch or to save a new version of it in another patch memory. |
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Randelph
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Joined: 18 Oct 2008
Posts: 604
Location: San Francisco, CA
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| Posted: Sat May 28, 2011 5:03 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: | Nevertheless, where I can see a real issue with more complex projects lies in the fact that the combis only contain *pointers* to patches, which indeed can make patches and combis management difficult.
Way better would have been to be able to save a version of the patches used by a combi with the data of the combi itself. So the user could use a preset or a user patch in a combi, then tweak it within the combi and save the modified version with the combi without having to overwrite the original patch or to save a new version of it in another patch memory. |
+1
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Keyboards: Kawai ES920 / Casio CT-X5000
Instruments: Keys / Alto Recorder and Melodica
Last edited by Randelph on Sat May 28, 2011 5:25 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Gargamel314
Platinum Member
Joined: 25 Dec 2007
Posts: 1147
Location: Carneys Point, NJ
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| Posted: Sat May 28, 2011 5:19 pm Post subject: |
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| danatkorg wrote: | | Kontrol49 wrote: |
irrespective of how many banks there are already as stock in the machine,the Oasys has to sacrifice several banks dependant on the Engine you have inside it, you can switch those engines off in the demo mode so they are not taking up bank locations, |
I'm not sure that I understand the above.
* EXi do not use *any* Program banks intrinsically
* Whether or not an EXi is authorized has no effect on Program bank usage
* Programs in any bank other than GM can be erased, re-written, used for other purposes etc., without restriction as to which EXi are installed or authorized
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Here's a question ... so you're saying program banks I-A through I-F and U-A through U-G are all rewriteable. Why are there Internal and User banks? Why not call them A through N like on the Triton Extreme? Kinda gives me the impression that anything with an I in front of it is un-editable... or anything with a U in front of it was supposed to be empty. is there some attribute that the Internal banks have that the User banks don't?
and so basically, we have 13 banks we can overwrite, correct?
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Korg Kronos-61, 01/Wfd, SONAR Pro |
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danatkorg
Product Manager, Korg R&D
Joined: 21 Jan 2005
Posts: 4204
Location: California, USA
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| Posted: Sat May 28, 2011 6:21 pm Post subject: |
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| Gargamel314 wrote: | | and so basically, we have 13 banks we can overwrite, correct? |
Yes, exactly.
- Dan
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Dan Phillips
Manager of Product Development, Korg R&D
Personal website: www.danphillips.com
For technical support, please contact your Korg Distributor: http://www.korg.co.jp/English/Distributors/
Regretfully, I cannot offer technical support directly.
If you need to contact me for purposes other than technical support, please do not send PMs; instead, send email to dan@korgrd.com |
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Kontrol49
Platinum Member
Joined: 04 Mar 2006
Posts: 1280
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| Posted: Sat May 28, 2011 6:37 pm Post subject: |
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So is there a Function for initialising the banks/Programs...
Triton allowed you to do this with Power on + Enter and "0" and all the Programs and Combi slots were initialised
Would like to do this so on the Oasys I could save a blank PCG file onto the Hard drive.
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--Korg Nautilus~~Korg Modwave--Korg SV-1-Korg Wavestate-- |
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Randelph
Platinum Member
Joined: 18 Oct 2008
Posts: 604
Location: San Francisco, CA
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| Posted: Sat May 28, 2011 9:30 pm Post subject: |
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Dan,
Would it be technically feasible in a Kronos OS update to save Programs within Combis?
I imagine Programs and Combis are loaded into RAM upon startup- would there be a performance hit if Programs and Combis were read off the SSD?
I know this is not up to you to decide if something like this is done or not, just wondering what the possibilities are and how much work it would be to implement saving Programs to Combis.
Thanks,
Randy
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Keyboards: Kawai ES920 / Casio CT-X5000
Instruments: Keys / Alto Recorder and Melodica |
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danatkorg
Product Manager, Korg R&D
Joined: 21 Jan 2005
Posts: 4204
Location: California, USA
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| Posted: Sat May 28, 2011 9:34 pm Post subject: |
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| Kontrol49 wrote: | So is there a Function for initialising the banks/Programs...
Triton allowed you to do this with Power on + Enter and "0" and all the Programs and Combi slots were initialised
Would like to do this so on the Oasys I could save a blank PCG file onto the Hard drive. |
Global mode, "Set Program User-Bank Type" will do this for you. Any banks *not* set to No Change will be initialized.
Be careful and back up your data first - once it's gone, it's gone!
Hope this helps,
Dan
_________________
Dan Phillips
Manager of Product Development, Korg R&D
Personal website: www.danphillips.com
For technical support, please contact your Korg Distributor: http://www.korg.co.jp/English/Distributors/
Regretfully, I cannot offer technical support directly.
If you need to contact me for purposes other than technical support, please do not send PMs; instead, send email to dan@korgrd.com |
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Kontrol49
Platinum Member
Joined: 04 Mar 2006
Posts: 1280
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| Posted: Sat May 28, 2011 11:30 pm Post subject: |
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| danatkorg wrote: | | Kontrol49 wrote: | So is there a Function for initialising the banks/Programs...
Triton allowed you to do this with Power on + Enter and "0" and all the Programs and Combi slots were initialised
Would like to do this so on the Oasys I could save a blank PCG file onto the Hard drive. |
Global mode, "Set Program User-Bank Type" will do this for you. Any banks *not* set to No Change will be initialized.
Be careful and back up your data first - once it's gone, it's gone!
Hope this helps,
Dan |
Yes,Will back up before doing this of course,I do have a back up of the current PCG in memory anyway but will still do it anyhow as a precaution
Thanks for the heads up on that one.
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Kevin Nolan
Approved Merchant
Joined: 04 Dec 2005
Posts: 2524
Location: Dublin, Ireland
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| Posted: Sat May 28, 2011 11:45 pm Post subject: |
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| danatkorg wrote: | | Gargamel314 wrote: | | and so basically, we have 13 banks we can overwrite, correct? |
Yes, exactly.
- Dan |
But in reality, they are not overwritable. For virtually every use of a Kronos you will not have the luxury of overwriting any programs. For example - if you want to use the hundreds of combi's on board, you cannot change the underlying programs. That's because combi's reference program/bank locations, not actual programs. That's why it would be hugely helpful if Korg abstracted their actual programs from onboard program locations - it would allow for combi's to be usable irrespective of where the programs physically reside.
If you develop a specific workpactice with your Kronos; if you are in the middle of a complex job; if you develop a live set that uses the myriad of synth engines; if you want a wide choice of combi's - essentially every working scenario you can think of - requires that you leave all the on board programs onboard and unchanged; and as said, uniquely in hardware, Kronos has so many synthesizer engines and so many expansion packs that it will absorb ALL the available program slots, out of the box.
Write over them in an adhoc way and you'll find your Kronos descending into chaos very quickly.
So while there are loads of onboard program slots, there simply aren't enough for almost all conceivable real wold scenarios - without a lot of careful planning and management.
But as siad above - I believe Richy has flagged some useful librarian type facilities in the DAW interfacing software so hopefully it will enhance the Kronos in this regard. But I'm going on about this becasue despite the seemingly huge number of program slots, they are virtually all used up already (very welcome in itself because Korg program such fabulous programs) - but it is not the case that you'll have loads of space for your own, or for future program libraries, without signficant planning - and it's very time consuming.
Kevin. |
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sparkie
Platinum Member
Joined: 15 Feb 2005
Posts: 743
Location: Indiana
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| Posted: Sun May 29, 2011 2:09 am Post subject: |
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| so ..If I overwrite the original factory program or combi ..say by accident or something...how do I reload it to factory again? Do I have first save everything after I unpack it when new...or can I just do a Global reload or something? |
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Gargamel314
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Joined: 25 Dec 2007
Posts: 1147
Location: Carneys Point, NJ
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| Posted: Sun May 29, 2011 4:35 am Post subject: |
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You use the DVD that comes with the Kronos, or load up the PCG file (or just that one program you trashed by accident). It looks like you can't reload from ROM in global mode like you can with many other Korg Workstations. I'm sure Korg will have the preload factory data on their website at some point, they usually do for most of their synthesizers when they don't load from ROM.
With the space restrictions, you'll probably have a whole bunch of PCG files marked "CURRENT.PCG" or whatever (make sure you date them) and different loadouts for using different synth engines. lol my head's already hurting from strategizing.
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Korg Kronos-61, 01/Wfd, SONAR Pro |
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danatkorg
Product Manager, Korg R&D
Joined: 21 Jan 2005
Posts: 4204
Location: California, USA
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| Posted: Sun May 29, 2011 4:58 am Post subject: |
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All the factory sounds are on the SSD, in the "FACTORY" folder - just like on the OASYS.
- Dan
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Dan Phillips
Manager of Product Development, Korg R&D
Personal website: www.danphillips.com
For technical support, please contact your Korg Distributor: http://www.korg.co.jp/English/Distributors/
Regretfully, I cannot offer technical support directly.
If you need to contact me for purposes other than technical support, please do not send PMs; instead, send email to dan@korgrd.com |
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danatkorg
Product Manager, Korg R&D
Joined: 21 Jan 2005
Posts: 4204
Location: California, USA
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| Posted: Sun May 29, 2011 5:04 am Post subject: |
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| Kevin Nolan wrote: | | danatkorg wrote: | | Gargamel314 wrote: | | and so basically, we have 13 banks we can overwrite, correct? |
Yes, exactly.
- Dan |
But in reality, they are not overwritable. For virtually every use of a Kronos you will not have the luxury of overwriting any programs. |
Personally, I switch up my Program banks all the time. In reality. 
I save setups for each project, and can easily revert to the factory default setup when desired. It's a matter of seconds to save and/or load an entire instrument's worth of Programs, Combis, Wave Sequences, Drum Kits, etc. to/from the SSD.
- Dan
_________________
Dan Phillips
Manager of Product Development, Korg R&D
Personal website: www.danphillips.com
For technical support, please contact your Korg Distributor: http://www.korg.co.jp/English/Distributors/
Regretfully, I cannot offer technical support directly.
If you need to contact me for purposes other than technical support, please do not send PMs; instead, send email to dan@korgrd.com |
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sparkie
Platinum Member
Joined: 15 Feb 2005
Posts: 743
Location: Indiana
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| Posted: Sun May 29, 2011 1:29 pm Post subject: |
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| danatkorg wrote: | All the factory sounds are on the SSD, in the "FACTORY" folder - just like on the OASYS.
- Dan |
Good to know.. Tx... so they are on the SSD drive. cooleo..... |
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Randelph
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Joined: 18 Oct 2008
Posts: 604
Location: San Francisco, CA
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| Posted: Sun May 29, 2011 4:01 pm Post subject: |
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Dan wrote:
| Quote: | Personally, I switch up my Program banks all the time. In reality. Smile
I save setups for each project, and can easily revert to the factory default setup when desired. It's a matter of seconds to save and/or load an entire instrument's worth of Programs, Combis, Wave Sequences, Drum Kits, etc. to/from the SSD.
- Dan |
OK, sounds like that works for you.
But you've also just heard from several folks who says it doesn't work that well for them for very specific reasons:
~ for larger projects, file management becomes a big, laborious project unto itself
~ keeping track of changes made to various Programs/Combis across separate saved Projects can be a nightmare- it feels crazy making to me.
Both of these are very strong, experienced objections to the current way of organizing files. And both point at a glaring workaround that has better solutions in the software world.
So my question, once again, is how difficult would that to be to implement saving Programs within a Combi in a Kronos OS update (if it's possible at all)-?
Dan, I realize you probably don't want to chime in on this, 'cause then there could be a lot of folks bugging you to make this happen.
But in another thread there was speculation that saving Programs to Combis would eat up approx. 200-300 MB (which would of course eat up most of the available sample RAM, assuming there's no upgrade to the RAM). And of course there's the work of making full editing of Programs possible within a Combi (I imagine that could be considerable).
I guess the point of beating at this repeatedly is, you don't see the need for this, but many do, it's an oft requested feature- so could somebody talk about why this hasn't happened already- would it really be that hard to implement?
Thanks,
Randy
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Instruments: Keys / Alto Recorder and Melodica |
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