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rrricky rrrecordo · Senior Member Joined: 26 Jan 2011 Posts: 448

Nice weather this evening so I hopped on the bike and flew down to Cosmo Music just north of Toronto to have a boo. The keyboard department was deserted, so I ambled about and in the Korg section - lo and behold - a Kronos 73. Apparently the local Korg rep had dropped it off for a four day event beginning tomorrow.

It was hooked up to a pair of KRK 8s. I fired up the German Grand from the playlist. It sounded very nice at first as I whacked thru Khachaturian's Toccata, nice dynamic range and tone. I then proceeded to give it the ol' ricky critical listening test, playing single keys at different dynamic levels and listening to the decays. Can't say that I was impressed by the realism in this regard. So I tried the Japanese Grand and almost cringed when I tested the C below middle C and the adjacent keys. The decay has a very unnatural stepping quality to it, and thins out very quickly. While playing a few different pieces with the JG, I was constantly aware of this effect. I thought it was just the particular preset in the list, so I called up all of the other pianos based on the Japanese Grand, and the issue is present in every one. The German Grands were more forgiving to my ears, very playable and will probably sound great in a mix. I was expecting more from 4GB streams though.

The EP's were nice, but nowhere near as good as I expected. Maybe the RH3 action isn't heavy enough for me, I dunno, but I didn't feel a great connection between the action and the sound. There is a lot of variety in the Rhodes type presets, and many sound better than what's in my Motif XS, but my software EPs on the Macs blow them all away. Having said that, again in a live stage mix, they'll probably be fine.

I did find some beautiful string and orchestral sounds, rich lush and very full. Solo orchestral instruments were quite a mixed bag, but to be fair I only just glossed over them while looking for the guitars. I have to say that when I found the guitars I heard exactly what I expected... Korg guitar sounds. Motif is still much stronger in this area with both electric and acoustic guitar sounds. I've been strumming keys guitaristically for many years, and apart from a couple of nylon string guitar emulations, most of the acoustic guitars in Kronos sound fake. The 12-string is harsh and abrasive, not at all pleasant to my ears. The electrics are also typical Korg fare.

I didn't bother with any of the other engines, as I've played the Cosmo OASYS to death, and I get it.

All in all, I spent about 45 minutes playing with Kronos before another guy came by and I passed the baton to him. I hopped back onto the bike and headed back up north, knowing that the Kronos will be a great instrument for a lot of happy users, just not for me.

Flash & The Pan · Guest

Agree...
Two things....first "Kronos" is the Oasys's Son, but,but , with a very very good "Marketing"...
Second....all the idiots...ran to get it first....wait and see for they comments in 2 weeks, ha!

nowtime · Full Member Joined: 27 Aug 2009 Posts: 216

aron · Posted: Wed Jun 01, 2011 2:40 am Post subject:

rrricky,

Have you played the S90 series? How does the Japanese Grand compare to the samples in the Yamaha keyboards?

I am hoping that the Kronos will have (or simulate) some of the richness that you get when you sit at a grand piano. I am familiar with some of the sample software pianos - but most of them sound thin - or too bright/brittle.

I'm hoping that with the modeling, the Kronos might be able to get a rich timbre. Bummer about the EP, we will see. The Kurzweil is very good in the EP department with some really funky programs. I like the response of the Motif/S90 series as well. To me, the Kronos doesn't have to be entirely perfect and realistic, but it would be great if it as fast, responsive and musical in quality.
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MartinHines · Posted: Wed Jun 01, 2011 2:48 am Post subject:

rrricky rrrecordo · Senior Member Joined: 26 Jan 2011 Posts: 448

Good question, nowtime... the sales guy sat with me for a bit and he heard the stepping too. I have the K-Sounds Virtual C7 loaded up in my Motif XS right now, and although it's only around 500mb, it's got a more natural decay than what I heard in the Kronos' Japanese Grand.

I've customized a lot of Rhodes and Wurlies using Logic's EVP88, Lounge Lizard and Pianoteq's EP add-on, and to my ears their sound quality easily surpasses the EPs I played in Kronos tonight.

rrricky rrrecordo · Senior Member Joined: 26 Jan 2011 Posts: 448

Oh, Martin... I've never said that I hated the OASYS.

That was your assumption. Do we really need to go there again?

sparkie · Posted: Wed Jun 01, 2011 4:06 am Post subject:

Hmm.. here is a link on Gearslutz and they didnt like it either..
http://www.gearslutz.com/board/electronic-music-instruments-electronic-music-production/616454-i-ve-tried-korg-kronos.html

BTW RIcky what did you think of the turnwheel knob and interface and touchscreen.. or should I even ask?

In defense of Korg, I think you gotta remember that the Kronos is only a synth workstation and wont ever be like playing a $100,000 Steinway. And a Steinway cant play organ, pads,drums etc either.

Each keyboard mfgrs have their own plus and minuses...and the Motif has more minuses than pluses I think. Screen sucks bigtime, Interface is 20 yrs behind current technology...and looks it!! And the processor is an old turtle in those..especially when waiting for the program to be selected. Guitars and articulation are really good on the Tyros4 but not the same in the Motif. I just hope the Kronos interface isnt going to be a problem for me.

Oh Yeah Ricky.. Korg had a problem with piano sounds on serial numbers 5 and below. You did play a current keyboard didnt you?? ..SN 000006 above? Laughing

rrricky rrrecordo · Senior Member Joined: 26 Jan 2011 Posts: 448

Flash & The Pan · Guest

synthguy · Platinum Member Joined: 05 Jan 2005 Posts: 661

Pianos will be argued over till God comes back, and probably after that. Wink

There is no perfect piano in anything. Not even with real pianos. Everyone doesn't like the same software pianos or EPs, modeled or not. I've seen the back n forth plenty of times. Each instrument serves a number of people well, and I think no one can say more than that.

On the Motif guitars, I don't like them. I mean, I do, but the samples could be more even, and I have a great deal of trouble playing them in contrast to stock patches on my KORGs, Kurzweils and my tweaked Ensoniqs. Ensoniq synths in particular seem to enable me to do some very delicate fingering textures that nothing else will touch.

All things in perspective, and my perspective is that the Kronos is a virtual modular synth, impecacble VA, FM monster, great organ emulator with "drawbars," one of the best romplers available, and a huge rack of virtual processors that can change seamlessly between all of them on demand.

I have more synths than I have the good right to own, and nothing I have can touch this. Make of Kronos what you will, but it's going to be in demand even when "better" instruments are made.
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MidnightPackage · Full Member Joined: 03 Apr 2011 Posts: 171

aron · Posted: Wed Jun 01, 2011 10:31 am Post subject:

> but Pianoteq comes so much closer to this elusive goal

I don't get what everyone is up about the Pianoteq. I get physical modeling just as much as anyone, but the Pianoteq does not sound like a real grand any more than any other sample library does. In fact, in some ways it's much more fake sounding. Maybe it's because I only tried the demo and maybe because I am using the Macintosh version. Maybe.
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Korg Kronos, RD-88, Yamaha VL1, Deep Mind 6, Korg Kross, author of unrealBook for iPad.

aron · Posted: Wed Jun 01, 2011 10:36 am Post subject:

I can't wait to compare the Kronos analog to the Nord. I dislike the Nord lame display and the up/down selection. I also don't like the limited effects. However, I do agree it is a very good sounding VA. I'm hoping the Kronos will sound great with the onboard effects.

So many people seem to think real analog synths sound so much better than virtuals, but for me, virtual synths can sound darn good. Granted, I only have around 7 analog synths left, but I think I will still enjoy the Kronos and the PC3 VA for what they are.
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Korg Kronos, RD-88, Yamaha VL1, Deep Mind 6, Korg Kross, author of unrealBook for iPad.

jimknopf · Platinum Member Joined: 17 Jan 2011 Posts: 3374

I have spent several hours with a Kronos, and I can NOT confirm your overall perception, Ricky.

Let's begin with where we agree: the acoustic and electric guitars are not really on the same high level as many other Kronos sounds for my ears as well.
The acoustic guitars are in part highly tweakable and good enough to fit any background context. Even if some may sound better on a Yamaha XF (and I have the impression they do), they aren't a real problem.
I'm more critical about the electric guitar patches I tested. Of course keyboard e-guitars never sound like the real deal, but some are good enough to be placed into song arrangements and transport a halfway realistic impression of how a song is meant for the rest of the band. I use such a lead guitar on my Fantom G, which does exactly this limited job. The Kronos e-guitars I found during testing don't sound enough up to date for my ears: they sound too much like previous workstation generation guitar sounds. Maybe I overlooked something, but then I would be curious to hear a better example.

On anything else I disagree.

1. Pianos
For my ears the Kronos Steinway is simply one of the very best pianos available on hardware: only comparable with ultra-expensive dedicated alternatives like the V-Piano. You could play Bill Evans or Keith Jarrett solo stuff without any problems on it.
There is NO piano on board of any current Yamaha XF, XS, S90/70, nor on a Roland Fantom or a Nord Stage, which comes even close, and I also prefer it over the mid priced stage pianos from Yamaha and Roland.

I like the Kronos Japanese grand nearly as much, and during normal play did NOT notice any problems with any kind of unnatural decay stepping. I don't know if I would find them if I searched for them with your "microscopic" view, but during normal play I stumbled on nothing of that kind. Instead of being unhappy about it's character, it's just the opposite in my case: this piano does sound VERY well, where somewhat more dry, cutting through piano sounds are needed (jazz, jazzrock, rock etc.)

2. EPianos
I'm really curious to hear from you which Mac EPianos you regard as better as the Kronos EPs??? I ask because I don't know of ANY Mac stuff coming even close.

The contrary is true from my view: the best software EPianos available on the whole market, the Scarbee library, sounds a bit more authentic in the upper range (no modelling involved). BUT: on the other hand you get the extremely musical and dynamic velocity response of the Kronos EPs. I would rate both solutions on similar levels, but would prefer the Kronos EPs in live play context for exactly this reason.

Both pianos and epianos have EXCELLENT velocity response from my view.

Perhaps others, like Akos Janca or whoever tested the Kronos, can add their views?

P.S.
Sparkie: the Gearslutz review of the original poster is one of the "idiotic/no clue at all" kind which spread with any new synth or big sample library. And most of the rest of the critical posters in this thread don't leave a too intelligent or experienced impression as well.

I checked the Nord Stage when I seriously considered abandoning the Kronos out of anger about the pathetic pricing and ordering policy of Korg in Europe. And I DO like Nord keyboards a lot, because I regard many of them as very nice and great sounding gigging gear.

BUT:
Once more the opposite is true: the Nord EPianos sound suprisingly good DESPITE their small sample size. But the price is a bit lifeless sound across the keyboard, BECAUSE they don't have single-sample, non looped, multivelocity material on board. The Kronos EPs are those that sound kicking alive, not vice versa.

All in all:
How dumb must a reviewer be who writes utter nonsense like "The sound was almost the same as the M3. On some patches was even worse", just to contradict himself a few sentences later.
It was equally childish to call the pad sounds "almost too perfect" and then adding "digital". What does this "tester" think is in a Nord stage?

If anyone get's fooled by those childish "no real clue"- online posts, I can't help them. What comes next? Taking "Flash and the Spam" nonsense serious?