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Sina172 Platinum Member
Joined: 29 May 2007 Posts: 1194
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Posted: Thu Jun 16, 2011 9:29 am Post subject: |
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Last edited by Sina172 on Mon Feb 01, 2016 11:03 pm; edited 2 times in total |
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RonF Platinum Member
Joined: 04 Jul 2002 Posts: 1179 Location: San Diego, CA USA
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Posted: Thu Jun 16, 2011 6:13 pm Post subject: |
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Sina,
I don't know you....therefore, I have no reason to doubt you. But as one musician to another.....and as someone who also is financially able to purchase most anything that I choose for music related equipment....my sincere question to you is......why?
What would such an Arsenal of M3's do for you? I struggle to imagine any scenario where such an assembly of the same synth/keyboard would be useful or necessary. Wouldn't it make more sense, for example, to use those funds to purchase the top grade recording equipment to track whatever polyphony you might need? Or if you already own such pro-grade recording equipment then....why not track it? I could understand, perhaps, owning 3 or even 6 units, to midi sync the polyphony for a live rig. But more than that? Of the same synth? In the studio? I am genuinely intrigued what your objective is....musically...that wouldn't be better produced in a more efficient overall way? Money not withstanding.....why?
Only reason I can contemplate.....you may be running a school or training facility of some sort and these are workstations for students or trainee's?
Respectfully...
Ron |
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Zeroesque Senior Member
Joined: 17 Jan 2011 Posts: 451 Location: SoCal
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Posted: Thu Jun 16, 2011 6:46 pm Post subject: |
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RonF wrote: | Sina,
I don't know you....therefore, I have no reason to doubt you. But as one musician to another.....and as someone who also is financially able to purchase most anything that I choose for music related equipment....my sincere question to you is......why?
What would such an Arsenal of M3's do for you? I struggle to imagine any scenario where such an assembly of the same synth/keyboard would be useful or necessary. Wouldn't it make more sense, for example, to use those funds to purchase the top grade recording equipment to track whatever polyphony you might need? Or if you already own such pro-grade recording equipment then....why not track it? I could understand, perhaps, owning 3 or even 6 units, to midi sync the polyphony for a live rig. But more than that? Of the same synth? In the studio? I am genuinely intrigued what your objective is....musically...that wouldn't be better produced in a more efficient overall way? Money not withstanding.....why?
Only reason I can contemplate.....you may be running a school or training facility of some sort and these are workstations for students or trainee's?
Respectfully...
Ron |
I brought up a similar line of questioning and never heard about it again:
http://www.korgforums.com/forum/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?p=390761&highlight=#390761
I don't think you'll ever get a reasonable answer, because there simply isn't one. I doubt any studio or pro artist in the world has ever tried to wire up that much redundancy. The difficulty of constructing, managing or even using such a monstrosity outweighs any convenience benefit it could ever offer. If money were no object (which it is, BTW, just look up any charity), would you even want dozens of the exact same car, oven, skateboard, book or [insert item that you can realistically only operate one at a time here] for your own personal use? Not unless you planned on destroying them rapidly and repeatedly.
I think many smarter than me on this forum have already been down this road and given up on getting an acceptable answer. _________________ Kronos 61, Kronos2-88, Hammond B3, Baldwin SD-10 |
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RonF Platinum Member
Joined: 04 Jul 2002 Posts: 1179 Location: San Diego, CA USA
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Posted: Thu Jun 16, 2011 9:01 pm Post subject: |
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If you think about it....there are really only 4 fundamental uses for anyone owning or using a keyboard workstation, or any music equipment....
1. To record music
2. For live performance
3. To teach music and educate
4. To play and practice
I struggle to think of any other fundamental purpose of purchasing and setting up music equipment such as an M3 or a KRONOS.
Might you need more than, oh heck, say six M3's for recording? Heck no, just overdub anything more than that. In fact the noise floor would go through the roof trying to poly-chain that many of any "audio device" on a recorded buss.
For live performance?.....no way....totally unusable in a live setting (unless you have several musicians all playing the same keyboard model live...but that's a different thing altogether...and 48!!!??? It would be MUSH).
To teach and educate? well yes...thats the only viable reason I can think of where 40-some keyboards might legitimately be needed by a studio or school owner.
How bout just to play and practice? There's just no reasonable way you would or could, without serious technical difficulty, functionally coordinate the use of 40-some M3's in a musical way.
I can see where someone, who has the means financially, might want the "convenience" of having multiple units in multiple separate locations, so one is always at hand. But 6 per room in an 8 room studio?
Hey, if Sina is involved with a larger performance group of many musicians, who plays multiple keyboards live....ok, that makes some sense I guess... Is it so?
I just want to understand. The man asks for respect......I want to give it to him.....so please help me understand, so I can learn and be educated and enlightened. If it makes sense in his "vibration", then I want to know...because I *could* drop $40G (ish) and buy 48 M3's.....just can't see why I would! Maybe I'm missing out! I just want to learn....... |
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Mystic38 Senior Member
Joined: 27 Dec 2010 Posts: 266
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Posted: Thu Jun 16, 2011 9:14 pm Post subject: |
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+1
buy the Kronos for YOUR satisfaction, not your audience..
nitecrawler wrote: | My opinion. You will hear the difference. Your audience, on the other hand, may have more difficulty discerning the differences. It was easy for me to hear between the M3 and Oasys. |
_________________ Korg PA4X, Nord Stage 3, Virus Ti Polar, Novation Nova II, Yamaha S70XS, MPC-X, TC Helicon Voicelive Rack, KRK VXT8 monitors, 2012 LP Standard, 1999 Am. hardtail Strat, Fender DRRI, Orange AD30HTC, Marshall Vintage Modern, 2 cans and a piece of string... |
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RonF Platinum Member
Joined: 04 Jul 2002 Posts: 1179 Location: San Diego, CA USA
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Posted: Thu Jun 16, 2011 9:24 pm Post subject: |
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Quote: | I don't use them all at once
I have that many Tritons because of the Program and Combi banks...
Not because of Sequencing. That's what my Fantom-X8's and Logic is for.
I like having direct access to my Programs and Combi's without having to load them in. I HATE PCG files because when you load one in and you modify ONE thing in Program or Combi mode, you have modified the PCG file and unless you save the modifications to disk as a new PCG and you load in a new one, you lose everything you just did and all that work ends up being for nothing.
I only have two M50-88's because I don't really use them in any of productions. They are strictly used as a scratch pad for inspiration. And when I sequence on the M50, I'm porting it into the OASYS to reassign the Programs and the difference in quality is SO staggering, that I end up adding more tracks on the OASYS Sequencer, more often than not recording a KARMA GE, and making edits in the Event List Editor, manually before I take the sequence and transfer it to the Fantoms for further editing, sampling, etc.
Logic really serves as hub, if you will, that links the rest of my keyboards together and I can access any keyboard I want (OASYS, Trinity, Triton, Motif, Fantom, etc.) right from my computer and my K2600XS, A90EX, Fantom-G8, or Keystation Pro 88 can control any combination of keyboards I want with the Softsynths to record and edit...
I don't use all my keyboards simultaneously. Just like how you have for example, Ableton, Reason, ProTools, and Logic and you don't use them all simultaneously.
They all have their own purpose and specific criteria. In the case of the Tritons, each one has a certain pallet of Programs and Combis that's different. The arps are different, I have SO many Drum kits, created from scratch, using the Triton ROM.
The OASYS Drums I sometimes use, utilizes a LOT of Drum Kit samples that are NOT in the factory ROM.
So I pick whatever combination I need for a particular track and I go from there.
But my starting point no matter what I use is NOT in Logic. I may start off with a Motif Classic 8 and go to the Triton Arps and see what fits. I go to the Fantom-X8's and Sequence it all on the Fantoms and like I said, using I have access to any combination of keyboards I want.
And that's all thanks to the Logic Environment, USB-MIDI, and my MOTU MIDI TimePiece AV's.
Sina |
I found this, thanks to Zeroesque. I *guess* I understand....... |
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EvilDragon Platinum Member
Joined: 24 Nov 2005 Posts: 1992 Location: Croatia
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Posted: Fri Jul 29, 2011 8:17 am Post subject: |
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Sina172 wrote: | EXer wrote: | In the SOS review of the M3 Gordon Reid wrote: | But does EDS really sound like HD1? The answer, to confound the cynics, is 'yes, very much so'. I had already suspected this when flicking through the M3's factory Programs, but when I placed the two synths on adjacent stands for comparison, I had to step only as far as Program A006 'Acoustic Bass 1' to discover two sounds that are identical not just in sound, but also in performance, responding in the same way to playing style and controllers such as the modulation joystick, ribbon, and switches. Others, such as A010 'Vibrato Flute', are similar and, although not quite the same, I think that they would be interchangeable for all purposes. Some Programs are not just different, but better. A007 'New Day Voices' uses samples present on the OASYS, but the Program itself has been created for the M3. I love it. It's an open-throated vocal sound that sounds as if it was inspired by the Trio Bulgarka (the Bulgarian female choir popularised by Kate Bush) and it sounds wonderful. It makes me want to stop writing words and start writing music to take advantage of it. There are even OASYS Combis duplicated in the M3, some all-but identical, some with audible differences, but many of which would work in the same context. |
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This guy is full of sh*t. What an idiot. Not that big of a difference? REALLY? |
Actually, he's pretty much correct. HD-1 isn't THAT much different than EDS, structurally. You just get more velocity layers and wave sequencing. But the rest is pretty much the same old same old. |
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Broadwave Platinum Member
Joined: 25 May 2011 Posts: 1118 Location: Manchester UK
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Posted: Fri Jul 29, 2011 12:19 pm Post subject: |
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Sina172 wrote: | I'm at a point where money is literally NO object to me anymore and even MORE so to the point where price is just a number to me now. I never look at price tags anymore, because I don't have to. I see it, and I'm able to buy it with a blink of an eye. |
Some people ARE lucky enough to be in this position... but PUH-LEESE! Some modicum of modesty surely wouldn't go amiss. _________________ Synth DIY Projects |
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BasariStudios Approved Merchant
Joined: 29 May 2005 Posts: 6510 Location: NYC, USA
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Posted: Fri Jul 29, 2011 12:32 pm Post subject: |
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Sina, when are you getting LexaPro or any SSDIs? _________________ http://www.basaristudios.com
Cubase 8.5 Pro. Windows 7 X64. ASUS SaberTooth X99. Intel I7 5820K. ASUS GTX 960 Strix OC 2GB. 4x8 GB G.SKILL.
2 850 PRO 256GB SSDs. 1 850 EVO 1TB SSD. Acustica: Nebula Server 3 Ultimate, Murano, Magenta 3, Navy, Titanium. |
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Vlad_77 Senior Member
Joined: 08 Jun 2011 Posts: 380 Location: The Netherlands
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Posted: Fri Jul 29, 2011 3:05 pm Post subject: |
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*Smiling here.... In addition to being a musician, a graduate student pursuing a PhD in psychology, I am also a sleight of hand artist professionally for twenty years. I have worked in circuses from "mud shows" to Royal Hanneford, Clyde Beatty Cole Bros., and many carnival companies, and the grifter/magician in me tells me that someone is playing us all as "loogans." [N.B. I am guessing that if I define loogan on this public board I would get in deep shite].
But okay, let's assume that Sina IS powerfully wealthy such that King Solomon would blush. I STILL do not get why ANYONE would need double digit numbers of every keyboard model extant. Sina, I have heard your music, and while it isn't my style, it IS cool. But, I do not hear from your music anything that cannot be done with one kitted out OASYS or Kronos.
Don't get me wrong man, if it is your bliss, and you have the dosh, then by all means follow that bliss! But to be honest, your posts may be interpreted in three ways:
1. You ARE wealthy and you are livin' large. If so, good on ya. But you know, wouldn't it be good (pardon the pun) karma to perhaps buy some keyboards for underprivileged schools that are suffering MASSIVE budget cuts in the arts?
2. You are making a post-modern statement about the ridiculous tendencies of G.A.S. If that is the case then your satire is pretty good.
3. You are REALLY bored.
I am not flaming you Sina, but I have noted here and in other fora inconsistencies in your posts that make me wish I could play three rounds of poker with you. The stakes would be your keyboard rigs. [And YES, YOU can deal all three rounds]. For example, in a recent post, you mentioned that you had an OASYS. You did NOT say your usual I have [insert number of OASYS workstations here].
Lastly, I am reminded of a line in the movie Wall Street when Charlie Sheen's character asks Michael Douglas' character, "Gordon, how much is enough? How many yachts do you have to own?"
That being said, if indeed your statements are true, I AM glad that you have pointed out that you are blessed. But I would reiterate that IF you are, there are a LOT of inner city kids in tumble down schools that could use a hand as opposed to hand out.
Just sayin'
Ahimsa,
Vlad _________________ Current gear: Kronos, Jupiter 80, Kurzweil PC3,Roland Fantom X8, Roland XV-88 (yep, its old, but the ACTION is heaven and those XV-3080 sounds are still wonderful for me), Radias-R, Motif ES (yeah it's older but I love the guitars ) |
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jimknopf Platinum Member
Joined: 17 Jan 2011 Posts: 3374
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Posted: Fri Jul 29, 2011 3:21 pm Post subject: |
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Just let Sina go his way.
He obviously likes telling us about his surreal keyboard castles with dozens of the same keyboards, and he loves praising one thing's sound over another, even if their sounds are identical (Access TI 1 and 2). But he is essentially a friendly soul, and it leads nowhere to try to verify or falsify his stories.
Now back on topic: Kronos over the M3 anytime (I don't own a M3, but I know them) even at a 1000$ difference. The Pianos, EPs, VAs and Mod7 are more than worth it, not speaking of overall functionality and sonic quality. |
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michelkeijzers Approved Merchant
Joined: 08 Feb 2007 Posts: 9113 Location: Netherlands
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Posted: Fri Jul 29, 2011 3:24 pm Post subject: |
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Altough I don't consider myself poor I just don't buy every synth when it is getting on the market, sometimes I skip, sometimes I wait a year or so. I could buy a Kronos today if I want to (well .. if they would be sold here), but I like the idea of having in the (near) future. Until that time I still am happy with my Extreme and M50. _________________
Developer of the free PCG file managing application for most Korg workstations: PCG Tools, see https://www.kronoshaven.com/pcgtools/ |
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PinkFloydDudi Guest
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Posted: Fri Jul 29, 2011 3:42 pm Post subject: |
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I feel like I'm adding fuel to a burning children's hospital by asking this...
but...
Sina - did you ever produce that picture of your 48 tritons?? Personally, if I had the stash of gear that you did...and I talked about having that stash of gear as much as you do, I would most positively have a collection of pictures to prove my claims.
(This convo would prolly be better discussed in that wonderful "ozzy" thread. lol). |
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Vlad_77 Senior Member
Joined: 08 Jun 2011 Posts: 380 Location: The Netherlands
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Posted: Fri Jul 29, 2011 5:34 pm Post subject: |
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I have to agree with Jim and others here who have suggested Kronos. For a 1000 USD difference you are getting exponentially more synthesis power. I know that others have said that Kronos sequencer is not as good as M3. But, if you are looking for a LOT more synthesis power, i.e, a keyboard that IS for all intents and purposes an OASYS (Kronos) rather than a keyboard that is distilled (Korg's own words) that is the M3, why not go for the Maserati?
Ahimsa,
Vlad
PS: Others have said that they have added a bunch of stuff to M3 and can basically do most if not all that can be done on Kronos. But even the Legacy collections are enhanced in Kronos, and, M3 does not have the new engines built in not are they available for M3.
So, yes, M3 IS a nice workstation, but, if the 1000 USD difference is not going to break you financially, it seems to me at least that Kronos is the way to go. _________________ Current gear: Kronos, Jupiter 80, Kurzweil PC3,Roland Fantom X8, Roland XV-88 (yep, its old, but the ACTION is heaven and those XV-3080 sounds are still wonderful for me), Radias-R, Motif ES (yeah it's older but I love the guitars ) |
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RonF Platinum Member
Joined: 04 Jul 2002 Posts: 1179 Location: San Diego, CA USA
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Posted: Fri Jul 29, 2011 6:11 pm Post subject: |
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Vlad_77 wrote: |
PS: Others have said that they have added a bunch of stuff to M3 and can basically do most if not all that can be done on Kronos.. |
Wannabe's _________________ http://soundcloud.com/ronf-3/sets/ronf-music
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCr1zAKpV_F226LQZrUYGPQA
Favorite Gear: Kronos 61, M3, Z1, Radias, KPro, KP3, Moog Voyager, Foogers, Virus TI, Jupiter 80, Integra7, GAIA, SPD-30, Kiwi 106, RE-201, MC808, RC505, MV8800, DSI P6 and OB6 and P12, Ensoniq SQ80, EMU MP-7, Eventide H7600, Eclipse, SPACE, Pitchfactor, Timefactor, Looperlative LP-1, Axe FX Ultra, Nord Modular, DSI Tetra, Tempest, PEK, JDXA, Eurorack Modular, Octatrack, MDUW, Monomachine, A4, RYTM, Waldorf Q Phoenix, MWXTk, Blofeld, TR8. |
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